Attack of the Judaizers

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L

Laodicea

Guest
Misuse of claim, and failure to demonstrate misused claim.

Nothing "in the context" of Ge 9:3 alters what God gave mankind to eat.
Genesis 1:29 KJV
(29) And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

AND CONTINUE READING AND PETER GIVES THE REVELATION:

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Your gospel says God changes
.

The Word says Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;
Your issue is with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

That's a matter of faith. . .I can't help you.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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The 7th day sabbath in the 10 commandments is different to the ceremonial sabbaths. The 7th day sabbath fell on the same day each week while the ceremonial sabbaths were on a certain date and could have been on any day of the week. If you think the 7th day sabbath is not part of the moral law then you have to include the other nine as well.
No, the others were special Sabbaths, or Feasts, not related to the Decalogue.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
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Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

AND CONTINUE READING AND PETER GIVES THE REVELATION:

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Your gospel says God changes. The Word says Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus did not change the Word by adding or deleting. He made better definitions (understanding spiritually) to what already exist.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Peter, a Jew, had to change his attitude toward non-jews. It was never God's or Jesus intent to exclude any man outside of Israel. Outsiders have always been welcomed. It was the Jews religion, man made traditions that were out of sinc with God's Word. (I generically say God's Word, meaning I know it is all Jesus, for He is the Word from the very beginning.)
Your issue is with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

That's a matter of faith. . .I can't help you.
Reposting. You left out the full explanation.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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Sorry cant resist - Gen 9 - No piggies because only two went on the ark - unclean animal - Clean animals 7 went on ark. So if they ate piggies back then they would be extinct now.:)>)......
So they ate the animals they took into the ark?

Where is that in Scripture?

The seven pairs of clean animals were for sacrifice.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
No, the others were special Sabbaths, or Feasts, not related to the Decalogue.
Exactly the ceremonial sabbaths were not related to the 10 commandments. The ceremonial sabbaths we do not keep any more because of Christ, He is our passover etc. The 7th day sabbath is still part of the commandments of God and we should still keep it.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
Meaning what, specifically?

Is it not plain enough to you?

1 John 2:7 KJV
(7) Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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Elin said:
Nothing "in the context" of Ge 9:3 alters what God gave mankind to eat.
Genesis 1:29 KJV
(29) And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Relevance to Ge 9:3?

Chubbena, where are you when I need you with "Lord, have mercy."
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
Relevance to Ge 9:3?

Chubbena, where are you when I need you with "Lord, have mercy."
That is God's original diet for man and will be in heaven. Don't you know that all will eat a vegetarian diet in heaven? There will be no death in heaven so no eating meat.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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Elin said:
Laodicea said:
The 7th day sabbath in the 10 commandments is different to the ceremonial sabbaths. The 7th day sabbath fell on the same day each week while the ceremonial sabbaths were on a certain date and could have been on any day of the week. If you think the 7th day sabbath is not part of the moral law then you have to include the other nine as well.
No, the others were special Sabbaths, or Feasts, not related to the Decalogue.
Exactly the ceremonial sabbaths were not related to the 10 commandments. The ceremonial sabbaths we do not keep any more because of Christ, He is our passover etc. The 7th day sabbath is still part of the commandments of God and we should still keep it.
Read again what you said.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
Meaning what, specifically?
Here is another for you.

1 Peter 2:21 KJV

(21) For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
 
Oct 31, 2011
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I just came back to these posts, and find it is a discussion on the commandment about eating unclean food! In the first place, in Jesus' time they didn't consider garbage eating animals food, and besides the commandment was only as a symbol of what went in the heart. So the spiritual side of being kosher involves the heart more than what is on our plates. Even the followers of rules that Judaizers follow would know this for it was always so. If they used what they ate for salvation they would not be following God as God ever gave His plan for our redemption.

We can argue about if it is wrong to use kosher eating to help us with God's instructions about garbage in our hearts, knowing that in Jesus time they said heart, in our time we know it is brain they meant.

Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?
Mark 7:19 (NIV) For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
Read again what you said.
Read what? The 7th day sabbath is not related to the ceremonial sabbaths?

Leviticus 23:37-38 KJV
(37) These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
(38) Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.


These texts show the difference between the ceremonial sabbaths which have been done away from the sabbath of the Lord which has not been done away. The ceremonial sabbaths were a shadow pointing to Christ. The 7th day sabbath is not a shadow it is a memorial. The 7th day sabbath as with the rest of the other 9 are still binding.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
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You are forgetting that Jesus as a jew was under the Mosaic law up until his death and resurrection. After that He was not obligated to observe sabbath. So of course He would go to sabbath.

The sabbath was given to the jews and it was never given to gentiles.
Adam and Eve weren't Jews and God celebrated the first Sabbath with them back at creation. So how does that make the Sabbath a Jewish celebration only?
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Here is a confession of faith that we are told is from Constantine, the Roman emperor who made the Christian religion accepted in Rome. The laws he enacted for Rome also reflect this. He gave it as a reason to get rid of Passover and put Easter in it's place. Many posters are reflecting Constantine instead of Christ. Constantine made Rome Christian for political reasons, not Christian. He was so far from being a Christian that he murdered his wife.

I renounce all customs, rites, legalisms, unleavened breads & sacrifices of lambs of the Hebrews, and all other feasts of the Hebrews, sacrifices, prayers, aspersions, purifications, sanctifications and propitiations and fasts, and new moons, and Sabbaths, and superstitions, and hymns and chants and observances and Synagogues, and the food and drink of the Hebrews; in one word, I renounce everything Jewish, every law, rite and custom and if afterwards I shall wish to deny and return to Jewish superstition, or shall be found eating with the Jews, or feasting with them, or secretly conversing and condemning the Christian religion instead of openly confuting them and condemning their vain faith, then let the trembling of Gehazi cleave to me, as well as the legal punishments to which I acknowledge myself liable. And may I be anathema in the world to come, and may my soul be set down with Satan and the devils.”
 
D

danschance

Guest
That you would post link giving us the option of legalizing sin ("sin is the transgression of the law" [1 John 3:4]) does not surprise me. Again, the real Jesus was not telling us it is now okay to eat pig, chimpanzee or snake. Neither did he, or Paul tell us it's now okay to force one's emplyee to work seven days straight, week in, week out, with no day off, i.e., with no fourth commandment seventh day of rest. Please, stop using the name of Jesus in your attempt to legalize sin.
You mis-spelled employee.
 
Sep 1, 2013
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Christ's death fulfilled the ceremonial laws of Moses. As an example of what this means The Mosiac law of circumcision of the foreskin has been changed to circumcision of the Heart. The temple in Jerusalem was changed to our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and so on. I have posted on this several times before on this thread. Here is a link that explains this in greater detail. What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?

The Mosiac laws were never meant to be permanent and the mosaic ceremonial laws have no hold on NT Christians.

16
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Col. 2
Well there is no scripture specifically saying “He fulfilled the ceremonial laws of Moses” but He did fulfill the law. Christ fulfilled the law by living blamelessly thus fulfilling the spirit of the law not by observing every ceremonial ordinance of the old covenant. The confusion lies in not understanding the difference between God’s law and a contract/covenant. God’s law is spiritual; it’s His nature and always existed before the old contract/covenant. Christ fulfilled that law that always existed because it is His nature. He did not fulfill that law by observing every single ordinance and all the ceremonial duties required by the old contract, the letter but He transcended the letter by fulfilling the law by His nature walking blamelessly.

And yes, the old contract was never meant to be permanent because the physical heaven and earth were also never meant to be permanent. And as Christ said that physical contract (the letter) will always exist until the physical heaven and earth pass away. But that does not mean that the law will no longer exist because the law is spirit, His nature, and that has always existed and always will exist. And that is the law Christ fulfilled. Observing every single ordinance and all the ceremonial duties required by the letter can never fulfill the law because the law is spirit. The law can only be fulfilled by taking on the nature of God by the Holy Spirit which is what the letter promoters will never achieve. So under the new covenant the children of God also, as Christ did, fulfill that law that always existed (which is spirit) not by observing the old letter (contract) but by taking on the nature of God by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 
D

danschance

Guest
danschance, you just revealed that the origin of your antinomian heresy lies in secular definitions of scriptural terms. Since when does one define "Jew" and "Gentiles" using other than original context? This violates the rules of interpretation. "Jew," in scripture, identifies a portion only of Israel, i.e., the Judah portion. "Jew," in its Biblical context does not identify today's Ashkenazi-Khazar counterfeits, there own historians admit this. "Gentiles," in scripture is a broadly defined word, one applied to Israelites of the dispersion, i.e., the Christians in Paul's epistles. Romans, in other words, is an epistle to non-Jew Israelites of the dispersion, the Diaspora. Jesus referred to them as "...other sheep I have which are not of this fold" (John 10:16). In John 7:35 these non-Jew Israelites are referred to as "...the dispersed among the Gentiles (Greeks). And you refer to "modern Jews." They, according to their own historians, are not representative of twelve tribed Israel (see The Invention of the Jewish People by Israeli professor Sholmo Sand; The Thirteenth Tribe by Jewish intellectual Arthur Koestler, and the 2012 Johns Hopkins Jewish DNA study). Please define things in context.
So you have a problem with dictionaries ?
 
D

danschance

Guest
Yes, Jews are historically Hebrew and from Israel. However, the point that not just I make, but the Word of God makes is that the "children of Israel" is all 12 tribes and all companions who have joined the "children of Israel". After the kingdom was taken from Solomon and divided into two kingdoms, God's word is consistent in when it says "House of Israel" or "Ephraim" or "House of Judah". The House of Judah is made up of the tribe of Judah, Benjamin and half Levites. While calling these members of the House of Judah a Jew, is quite appropriate, they are not now or ever where of "The house of Israel/Ephraim", but are included in "children of Israel".

This is very basic knowledge from the Word (all - OT and NT). Your misuse of who are who could very well be the reason you do not understand the Law of Christ and His Kingdom.

A few basic scriptures:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

**HIS PEOPLE:
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
**WHAT SINS?:
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law (Torah): for sin is the transgression of the law (Torah)​
Psa 111:6 He hath shewed his people the power of his works,
that he may give them the heritage of the heathen (Gentiles).
Psa 111:7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment;
all his commandments are sure.

Psa 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth
and uprightness.
Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath
commanded his covenant FOR EVER
: holy and reverend is his name.
Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom:
a good understanding have all they that do his commandments:
his praise endureth FOR EVER.

***Keep THE Commanmdnets:
(Deu 4:2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

(Deu 6:17) Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

(Deu 7:11) Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

(Deu 8:6) Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

(Deu 10:13) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

(Deu 28:9) The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

(Psa 119:115) Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.

(Mat 19:17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

(Rev 12:17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(Rev 14:12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.



Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Eze 37:22 And I will make them ONE NATION in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and ONE KING shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Gen 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation [SUP]H1471 [/SUP]and a company of nations[SUP]H1471[/SUP] shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
Gen 35:12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed (SINGULAR SEED=JESUS) after thee will I give the land[SUP]H776[/SUP].

H1471
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

H776
'erets
eh'-rets
From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.

Joh 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the "DISPERSED" among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

The Jews knew the prophecy that the kingdom would be restored to One Kingdom under One King for ALL THE EARTH.

What I am saying is this, please don't butcher the story anymore. Use correct terminology....it means EVERYTHING to GOD and He wants us to have understanding and wisdom. and through the proper reading and terminology we can gain much knowledge. However, whom he gave to and would not do, he taketh away and leaves you utterly in the dark. All light is snuffed out of your understanding and all you have left is your TRADITIONS OF MEN.

I'm not being ugly or rude. What I am is patiently repeating over and over TRUTH.

My daily prayer: Psa 25:5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

Psa 25:10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as KEEP HIS COVENANT and his testimonies.

Jer 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations (gentiles), and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a SHEPHERD DOES HIS FLOCK.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

***SHEEP: Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
OK, Jews, Hebrews, Israelites and Gentiles. Got it!