baptized into Christ

[notmyown]

If any one falls away from that faith, then faith is made void, and the believer, even though he or she still has His seal, may find themselves naked before the Bridegroom.

Romans 4:14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Matthew 22:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:[SUP]12 [/SUP]And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus addressing him as His friend shows that he is there because he is His, but he came without his wedding garment. So it is possible for a believer to engage in dead works that deny Him in one form or fashion to void faith and wind up being denied by Him by whatever work of iniquity he is in.

Which is why it is important to trust Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd and regularly in prayer, ask Him to expose any works of iniquity so that we may lean on Him for help in departing from iniquity.

We can never lose our seal.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

But we can lose our wedding garment if we do not trust Him as our Good Shepherd to keep us.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Very few believes today trust Him to do that, and even I need His help to keep trusting Him to do that.

Christ addressed Judas by the very same word for 'friend' in Matt 26:50.

HELPS word studies --

hetaíros – properly, a companion (normally an imposter), posing to be a comrade but in reality only has his own interests in mind.

hetaíros ("supposed friend") suggests someone viewed (associated) as a friend, but is actually an imposter acting for self-gain.

also, super out of context there in Romans 4.

we now return you to the actual Gospel.

That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.”
But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
(Rom 4:22-25 ESV)

 

[PennEd]

Jesus also addressed Judas as "friend" as he was betraying Him. The text doesn't say the man was naked, only that he didn't have the wedding garment.

More likely, he was arrayed in his own filthy rags, depending on his works, rather than Jesus for Salvation.

I believe the thrust of the story is that works can NEVER save us. Only faith in Christ, and His finished work. We must NOT stray from that ONE TRUE GOSPEL.

 

[PennEd]

Christ addressed Judas by the very same word for 'friend' in Matt 26:50.

HELPS word studies --

hetaíros – properly, a companion (normally an imposter), posing to be a comrade but in reality only has his own interests in mind.

hetaíros ("supposed friend") suggests someone viewed (associated) as a friend, but is actually an imposter acting for self-gain.

also, super out of context there in Romans 4.

we now return you to the actual Gospel.

That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.”
But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
(Rom 4:22-25 ESV)

Ha! Thinking alike again!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You sat right there & quoted scripture that shows we can be thrust out of God's presence, then say there's no way we can.

Have you any understanding at all?

Are you so arrogant you can speak directly against scripture? Or is it ignorance?

Never ignore scripture.

When two scriptures seem to contradict one another, the interpretation of at least one of them is wrong.

Whenever someone purposely ignores scripture for the sake of their doctrine, that doctrine is evil.

now, Read this over and over again.

Then understand. You do this very thing..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If any one falls away from that faith, then faith is made void, and the believer, even though he or she still has His seal, may find themselves naked before the Bridegroom.

Romans 4:14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Matthew 22:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:[SUP]12 [/SUP]And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus addressing him as His friend shows that he is there because he is His, but he came without his wedding garment. So it is possible for a believer to engage in dead works that deny Him in one form or fashion to void faith and wind up being denied by Him by whatever work of iniquity he is in.

Which is why it is important to trust Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd and regularly in prayer, ask Him to expose any works of iniquity so that we may lean on Him for help in departing from iniquity.

We can never lose our seal.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

But we can lose our wedding garment if we do not trust Him as our Good Shepherd to keep us.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Very few believes today trust Him to do that, and even I need His help to keep trusting Him to do that.

rom 4: 14.. If one be of law. FAITH IS MADE VOID.

why would you use a passage, in which says that if we are saved by rules and regulation (law) faiht is made void. to prove that faith is made void?

Thats a contradiction in itself... The works of the law is works, Faith is grace,, as paul said, if it is of grace it is no longer works.. Faith and works (as far as being saved is concerned) are apposed.. That is what Paul is saying in rom 4..

 

[notmyown]

rom 4: 14.. If one be of law. FAITH IS MADE VOID.

why would you use a passage, in which says that if we are saved by rules and regulation (law) faiht is made void. to prove that faith is made void?

Thats a contradiction in itself... The works of the law is works, Faith is grace,, as paul said, if it is of grace it is no longer works.. Faith and works (as far as being saved is concerned) are apposed.. That is what Paul is saying in rom 4..

In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. (Rom 11:5-6 NASB)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. (Rom 11:5-6 NASB)

amen, faith and law (of any type) are apposed. they are like magnets of the same poles which push the other aside, because they can not both be in the same place.

As paul said, If Abraham was saved by work, he would have something to boast about. but what does God say, "he believed and it was accredited to his account as righteousness" (an act I might add which occurred before he did one work he is famously and rightly so, accredited with)

 

[Enow]

Christ addressed Judas by the very same word for 'friend' in Matt 26:50.

HELPS word studies --

hetaíros – properly, a companion (normally an imposter), posing to be a comrade but in reality only has his own interests in mind.

hetaíros ("supposed friend") suggests someone viewed (associated) as a friend, but is actually an imposter acting for self-gain.

also, super out of context there in Romans 4.

we now return you to the actual Gospel.

That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.”
But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
(Rom 4:22-25 ESV)

Well, Judas was never a believer.

John 6:[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.....[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.[SUP]69 [/SUP]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.[SUP]70 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?[SUP]71 [/SUP]He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Peter was speaking for every one that was remaining after all the other disciples walked away that the ones remaining believed in Him, but Jesus countered his testimony that not every one remaining was believing in Him as he would be the one that will betray Him.

So when a "friend" is there at the King's Supper, it is by having received the invite and was brought there because He had saved him, having His seal, but before he had come, he engaged in dead works that void faith in Him and that was why he who had a wedding garment, was not wearing it.

Any believer thinking they are receiving Christ again by communion is no different than those who seek to receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues, because that is denying Him as having been received at salvation to hunger & thirst no more after Him.

 

[Stephen63]

rom 4: 14.. If one be of law. FAITH IS MADE VOID.

why would you use a passage, in which says that if we are saved by rules and regulation (law) faiht is made void. to prove that faith is made void?

Thats a contradiction in itself... The works of the law is works, Faith is grace,, as paul said, if it is of grace it is no longer works.. Faith and works (as far as being saved is concerned) are apposed.. That is what Paul is saying in rom 4..

Now practice what you preach, & read over this foolish statement you made.

Faith is grace..... Uh-huh. Are you introducing a new false doctrine?

Faith & works are opposed..... yeah, right. Did you cut the book of James outta your Bible?

It says something about your colleagues when you write stuff like this all the time, & they don't correct you.

Then again, they probably don't know, either.

What will you say next, "Jesus is pure doctrine"?

 

[notmyown]

Well, Judas was never a believer.

John 6:[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.....[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.[SUP]69 [/SUP]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.[SUP]70 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?[SUP]71 [/SUP]He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Peter was speaking for every one that was remaining after all the other disciples walked away that the ones remaining believed in Him, but Jesus countered his testimony that not every one remaining was believing in Him as he would be the one that will betray Him.

So when a "friend" is there at the King's Supper, it is by having received the invite and was brought there because He had saved him, having His seal, but before he had come, he engaged in dead works that void faith in Him and that was why he who had a wedding garment, was not wearing it.

Any believer thinking they are receiving Christ again by communion is no different than those who seek to receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues, because that is denying Him as having been received at salvation to hunger & thirst no more after Him.

this is what i'm saying.

Matt 11:13-14
Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Jn 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

and to tie it up with the OP...

But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption (1 Cor 1:30)

Christ actually became these precious things for His people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now practice what you preach, & read over this foolish statement you made.

Faith is grace..... Uh-huh. Are you introducing a new false doctrine?

Faith & works are opposed..... yeah, right. Did you cut the book of James outta your Bible?

It says something about your colleagues when you write stuff like this all the time, & they don't correct you.

Then again, they probably don't know, either.

What will you say next, "Jesus is pure doctrine"?

Faith is grace, for by GRACE we have been saved by FAITH. not of works.

James 2? He spoke to people who CLAIMED to have faith, that is quite a different context of paul in romans 4 who is talking to people who CLAIM we are saved by works.

If we leave it your way, we have a contradiction. Why not resolve the contradiction.

Paul said we are not just saved BY GRACE through FAITH, but that THOSE WHO ARE SAVED WILL WORK.

all James did is use Paul to prove a point, if you CLAIM you have faith, but HAVE NO WORK, your a liar.. Your faith is DEAD (non existent) and that faith (which is no faiht at all) will never save you, any more than the faith of the people in romans 4 (in law) would save them..



so, You going to admit you lied yesterday? Or keep trying to sidestep it??

 

[PennEd]

Well, Judas was never a believer.

John 6:[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.....[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.[SUP]69 [/SUP]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.[SUP]70 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?[SUP]71 [/SUP]He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Peter was speaking for every one that was remaining after all the other disciples walked away that the ones remaining believed in Him, but Jesus countered his testimony that not every one remaining was believing in Him as he would be the one that will betray Him.

So when a "friend" is there at the King's Supper, it is by having received the invite and was brought there because He had saved him, having His seal, but before he had come, he engaged in dead works that void faith in Him and that was why he who had a wedding garment, was not wearing it.

Any believer thinking they are receiving Christ again by communion is no different than those who seek to receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues, because that is denying Him as having been received at salvation to hunger & thirst no more after Him.

This is quite heretical in my opinion. You are teaching that those sealed by the Holy Spirit could possibly be thrown into outer darkness, NO LONGER SEALED. This is really a works doctrine with new packaging.

 

[Magenta]

Well, Judas was never a believer.

John 6:[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.....[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.[SUP]69 [/SUP]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.[SUP]70 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?[SUP]71 [/SUP]He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Also in John 13, Jesus says Judas is not clean.

Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no share with me.” 9 Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, not my feet only but also my hands and my head!” 10 Jesus said to him, “The one who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but is completely clean. And you are clean, but not every one of you.” 11 For he knew who was to betray him; that was why he said, “Not all of you are clean.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is quite heretical in my opinion. You are teaching that those sealed by the Holy Spirit could possibly be thrown into outer darkness, NO LONGER SEALED. This is really a works doctrine with new packaging.

what is sad, is it states that man is able to break the seal of God..That makes man greater than God (which is what satan has been trying to promote since the beginning

Man can no more break the seal of God than noah or his family could break the seal of god on the ark to get out because they changed their mind..

 

[Stephen63]

Faith is grace, for by GRACE we have been saved by FAITH. not of works.

James 2? He spoke to people who CLAIMED to have faith, that is quite a different context of paul in romans 4 who is talking to people who CLAIM we are saved by works.

If we leave it your way, we have a contradiction. Why not resolve the contradiction.

Paul said we are not just saved BY GRACE through FAITH, but that THOSE WHO ARE SAVED WILL WORK.

all James did is use Paul to prove a point, if you CLAIM you have faith, but HAVE NO WORK, your a liar.. Your faith is DEAD (non existent) and that faith (which is no faiht at all) will never save you, any more than the faith of the people in romans 4 (in law) would save them..

Any idiot would know grace & faith aren't the same. Matter of fact, even radical gracers would know that.

Don't look now, but your education is showing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Any idiot would know grace & faith aren't the same. Matter of fact, even radical gracers would know that.

Don't look now, but your education is showing.

dude Your a liar. you were proven to be a liar. and you fail to repent.

So please. Go away, and ask God why you refuse and are unwilling to repent when you are caught in open sin.. because until then, a liars words are meaningless. and hold no value..

for anyone who actually cares,

I never said they were, I said they are related, because they are both interdependent.

to say grace and works do not mix, is the same as saying (as per salvation) faith and works do not mix. How can I say this?

1. Salvation is based on GRACE through faith (not works)
2. Salvation is received in faith not works
3. We are saved n by our good deed (works) but by our faiht in Gods mercy (titus 3: 5)

 

[Stephen63]

dude Your a liar. you were proven to be a liar. and you fail to repent.

So please. Go away, and ask God why you refuse and are unwilling to repent when you are caught in open sin.. because until then, a liars words are meaningless. and hold no value..

for anyone who actually cares,

I never said they were, I said they are related, because they are both interdependent.

to say grace and works do not mix, is the same as saying (as per salvation) faith and works do not mix. How can I say this?

1. Salvation is based on GRACE through faith (not works)
2. Salvation is received in faith not works
3. We are saved n by our good deed (works) but by our faiht in Gods mercy (titus 3: 5)

I'm a liar? Let's take a look.....

Faith is grace, for by GRACE we have been saved by FAITH. not of works.

rom 4: 14.. If one be of law. FAITH IS MADE VOID.

why would you use a passage, in which says that if we are saved by rules and regulation (law) faiht is made void. to prove that faith is made void?

Thats a contradiction in itself... The works of the law is works, Faith is grace,, as paul said, if it is of grace it is no longer works.. Faith and works (as far as being saved is concerned) are apposed.. That is what Paul is saying in rom 4..

Who's the liar now?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm a liar?

Yep. and here is the proof..

taken from here http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/148555-some-things-paul-many-omit-20.html

and here, another bomb, only this time a strawman, which falls in a field and has no affect on the spiritual war.. Because the exact same thing could be said of you and your group.

it is like two enemies launching bombs at each other. (you can;t understand truth, No, You can;t understand truth!, etc etc) Yet non reaches the intended target..

Notice the bolded sentence..... first, he says it's like two enemies (sides) bombing each other, then says only one of them is missing the target.

Is EG one of the "bombers"? Ever read several of his posts together?

Is he saying both sides are wrong?

What is he saying?

See how dishonest Stephen is.. This is a man on a mission, Has been since he has been here.

EG never said only one, He said specifically "NON" reach the intended target. I.E..., neither one of us would land the bomb on the intended target, or it is a dud.



EG said what he said, If we both (Stephen and EG) act like kids and say he did it, he did it. (They will never believe, they are blind, etc etc) we are both wasting our time..

Let's take a look.....

Who's the liar now?

Well lets look at my last post. I said they were related.. IE, in context, (salvation) they are the same, Faith = grace.

but hey, if you want to take me literally, Then yes, I did make a mistake. and I will repent..

so are you going to repent?

 

[Stephen63]

I misunderstood the statement, that's a far cry from saying faith = grace.

Yours, however, was a direct statement made twice, then you said they were related.

It would have been easier to admit a mistake the first time..... but your final argument cemented the fact you told a lie to cover a doctrinal falsehood.

IOW, a lie to cover another lie.

Now you've lied twice.

Keep going..... we're counting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I misunderstood the statement, that's a far cry from saying faith = grace.

Yours, however, was a direct statement made twice, then you said they were related.

It would have been easier to admit a mistake the first time..... but your final argument cemented the fact you told a lie to cover a doctrinal falsehood.

IOW, a lie to cover another lie.

Now you've lied twice.

Keep going..... we're counting.

I feel like I am talking to a teenage,, who has to have his or her way no matter what.

so you admit now you were slandering me? took long enough.