Be Holy, have reverent fear, live for righteousness, done with sin

[Grace777x70]

But you say you keep on sinning, so in fact you prove yourself reprobate. If the old man is not dead it is proof you are still in the flesh and serving the lusts and the desires of the flesh. It is also proof that you are not born again of the Holy Spirit and raised up a new man in Christ. When you are born again and raised up anew the old man is dead and gone, you are not now both the old man and the new man in Christ, that is like having 2 natures. If you have put on Jesus Christ you do not have 2 natures both sinful and righteous, but only one, which is the divine nature in Christ. Be not deceived.

I'll ignore your insults and name-calling.

I agree that we have only one true nature - the new man in Christ. We still have the flesh which has thee law of sin in it.

So, do you still sin from time to time and give in to the flesh? Let's look at your "personal application" of what you are saying.

I'm off to play in a pickleball championship so pray for me that the goodness and love and grace of our Lord will be manifested to those that He loves dearly. Thanks and bless you.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

​Nothing against Peter, but he does seem to make quite a few erroneous, fallacious statements. After all, if his statement were true, then how is it HE got to go to God? He's as unrighteous, impure and unholy as the rest of us..

I think from what I have seen, peter works things out as he goes along (and don't we all!) He is really not proclaiming how things are but how he sees it and he grows in understanding even through the discussion as each one adds his perspective and gives the verses for why he so thinks. When biblical proof is given for why others see it as they do, peter agrees a lot of the time if the word shows him some aspect he was not seeing before. It's a good way to learn - with each other adding what God has shown them! But if he feels attacked, all that good for him and for us can't occur. (Not that you, ladybug, ever add to the conversation in an attacking way. You just give your thoughts, the verses that have formed those thoughts, and then you give a smile. ) You are a very safe person to talk things out with because you don't begin with: that's completely ridiculous or...false teacher, heretic, etc. You never approach in arrogance when you disagree. You approach in calm meekness and love, with a lovely sword.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I agree that we have only one true nature - the new man in Christ. We still have the flesh which has thee law of sin in it.

Again, your own words expose your false doctrine error of Dualism and a doctrine of a "disassociated identity". That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit; the scriptures do not say we are now flesh/Spirit, but Spirit. You reprobates claim your spirit is "perfect" but you are still trapped in a body that causes you to sin, so you keep on sinning and cling to a false doctrine which is conformed to your fallen condition.

The flesh that causes you to sin is the old man sin nature that is still alive and well working in you by the spirit of this world and is still serving sin because you have not been born again and made a new man in Christ.

 

[gb9]

But you say you keep on sinning, so in fact you prove yourself reprobate. If the old man is not dead it is proof you are still in the flesh and serving the lusts and the desires of the flesh. It is also proof that you are not born again of the Holy Spirit and raised up a new man in Christ. When you are born again and raised up anew the old man is dead and gone, you are not now both the old man and the new man in Christ, that is like having 2 natures. If you have put on Jesus Christ you do not have 2 natures both sinful and righteous, but only one, which is the divine nature in Christ. Be not deceived.

Romans 7 would dis-agree with this. every human other than Jesus sins. that would include you!!

there is no such thing as a sin list. intentional , unintentional, it is all sin in God's eyes. so you need to take your own advice.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Again, your own words expose your false doctrine error of Dualism and a doctrine of a "disassociated identity". That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit; the scriptures do not say we are now flesh/Spirit, but Spirit. You reprobates claim your spirit is "perfect" but you are still trapped in a body that causes you to sin, so you keep on sinning and cling to a false doctrine which is conformed to your fallen condition.

The flesh that causes you to sin is the old man sin nature that is still alive and well working in you by the spirit of this world and is still serving sin because you have not been born again and made a new man in Christ.

Here is a post on the doctrine of devils that many of the reprobates in these forums follow---->>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/144710-dualism-doctrine-disassociated-identity.html

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Romans 7 would dis-agree with this.

Read Romans 6 and 8 which speaks of being made free from the Romans 7 sinful condition.

 

[gb9]

Read Romans 6 and 8 which speaks of being made free from the Romans 7 sinful condition.

how about we read all of those, and the rest of the Bible and use that for theology, and not pluck out verses and ignore others.

by the way, Romans 6 and 8 do not refute 7, nor does it refute them. the Word of God does not work against itself, no matter how much folks like you try to make it.

 

[FreeNChrist]

But you say you keep on sinning, so in fact you prove yourself reprobate. If the old man is not dead it is proof you are still in the flesh and serving the lusts and the desires of the flesh. It is also proof that you are not born again of the Holy Spirit and raised up a new man in Christ. When you are born again and raised up anew the old man is dead and gone, you are not now both the old man and the new man in Christ, that is like having 2 natures. If you have put on Jesus Christ you do not have 2 natures both sinful and righteous, but only one, which is the divine nature in Christ. Be not deceived.

It is your assumption that the "flesh" and the "old man" are synonymous that is throwing you off. They're not. And that is leading you to incorrect conclusions. The old man is dead, but the flesh remains.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Again, your own words expose your false doctrine error of Dualism and a doctrine of a "disassociated identity". That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit; the scriptures do not say we are now flesh/Spirit, but Spirit. You reprobates claim your spirit is "perfect" but you are still trapped in a body that causes you to sin, so you keep on sinning and cling to a false doctrine which is conformed to your fallen condition.

The flesh that causes you to sin is the old man sin nature that is still alive and well working in you by the spirit of this world and is still serving sin because you have not been born again and made a new man in Christ.

You are using the definition of "flesh" as it relates to the human body. But what we are discussing is the flesh as used by Paul in regards to human behavior. The word flesh has different meaning depending upon the context in which it is being used.

 

[PeterJens]

It is your assumption that the "flesh" and the "old man" are synonymous that is throwing you off. They're not. And that is leading you to incorrect conclusions. The old man is dead, but the flesh remains.

We are a new creation in Christ, a new foundation in our hearts, but we still have
our behaviour histories, our will, our understanding, our whole being, into which
has been planted word, hope, faith, the Holy Spirit, our sins forgiven, our hearts
purified and we are born again.

So as a whole we are a new creation, sealed for heaven, Gods handiwork.
So the Lords commands and words have to work out and build a new person, while
the old still functions and carries on. If the old was truly dead, we would stop
functioning, on the spot, no memories, no language, no understanding.

So a total replacement theology does not work.

The sown new life, its foundation established now must work through all ones life and
grow. This is rebirth, and discipleship, a common experience of every believer and something
that should not need explaining, as it should be your experience.

 

[FreeNChrist]

We are a new creation in Christ, a new foundation in our hearts, but we still have
our behaviour histories, our will, our understanding, our whole being, into which
has been planted word, hope, faith, the Holy Spirit, our sins forgiven, our hearts
purified and we are born again.

So as a whole we are a new creation, sealed for heaven, Gods handiwork.
So the Lords commands and words have to work out and build a new person, while
the old still functions and carries on. If the old was truly dead, we would stop
functioning, on the spot, no memories, no language, no understanding.

So a total replacement theology does not work.

The sown new life, its foundation established now must work through all ones life and
grow. This is rebirth, and discipleship, a common experience of every believer and something
that should not need explaining, as it should be your experience.

Or we could just say it simply as Scripture does, that the flesh remains, and that it wars against the Spirit. But the good news is, ".....walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.” Galatians 5:16

 

[Willie-T]

We are a new creation in Christ, a new foundation in our hearts, but we still have
our behaviour histories, our will, our understanding, our whole being, into which
has been planted word, hope, faith, the Holy Spirit, our sins forgiven, our hearts
purified and we are born again.

So as a whole we are a new creation, sealed for heaven, Gods handiwork.
So the Lords commands and words have to work out and build a new person, while
the old still functions and carries on. If the old was truly dead, we would stop
functioning, on the spot, no memories, no language, no understanding.

So a total replacement theology does not work.

The sown new life, its foundation established now must work through all ones life and
grow. This is rebirth, and discipleship, a common experience of every believer and something
that should not need explaining, as it should be your experience.

That is the closest you have come to speaking honest truth in a long time. I congratulate you on your guts.

 

[JesusRules1]

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Some people take a relaxed position when it comes to living for the Lord.

The truth is it is possible to abstain from sin,and everyone has to live up to the law,but it was not possible in the Old Testament without the Spirit,but the blood of bulls and goats kept their sins covered,and Jesus' blood washed away their sins.In the New Testament it is possible to live up to the law by the Spirit,for that is what causes us to be saved is being led of the Spirit,and the blood gets us to having the Spirit.

So there is no excuse for we have the power of the Holy Spirit to cause us to abstain from sin if we sincerely want to abstain from sin,and we will not be tempted above measure,and God will cause us to escape it.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

But not to act holier than thou for although we can abstain from sin being led of the Spirit,we are still in the flesh and there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh,and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other,so we still have the ability to sin if we desire,but it can be forgiven,and we should not come across as holier than thou for we might sin for we do not know what the future holds to say I will never sin again in the fashion like you are sure you will not.

Isa 65:5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

We do not want to get arrogant when posting,but only stress the point that we have to abstain from sin.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"Some people imagine if you bow yourself out and bow Jesus in, if you die to self-effort and let God do it, that is passivity. Well, it is passivity only if you consider God to be passive, and only if you consider the Lord Jesus to be a weakling and incapable of running His own kingdom as King, and that of course is blasphemous.

If I think that by stepping aside and letting God handle it, nothing is going to happen, this only indicates that I do not really believe in God or in the competence of Jesus Christ. I am assuming that if it were not for folks like me doing the work and keeping God in business, He would be in bad shape. That is the only logical conclusion we can draw when anyone assumes, “If I let Jesus do it, nothing will happen.”"

When you are truly relaxed in the Lord, stripped of self-effort, and experiencing His true rest, that rest will nearly always involve more activity than we would otherwise ever know. That is because Christ is in action, and you in your humanity are simply the clothes of His divine activity.

This is the rest of faith. You relax, almost like a spectator, except that it is your hands with which He is at work, your lips with which He is speaking, your eyes with which He sees the need, your ears with which He hears the cry, and your heart with which He loves the lost.

To “let go and let God” is not inactivity, although it may appear that way as you grow out of self-effort. It is Christ-activity – God in action accomplishing divine purposes through human personality. This never reduces our status or worth, but exalts us to the stature of a king: “Those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness will reign in life through One, Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:17). - Major Ian Thomas

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

"Some people imagine if you bow yourself out and bow Jesus in, if you die to self-effort and let God do it, that is passivity. Well, it is passivity only if you consider God to be passive, and only if you consider the Lord Jesus to be a weakling and incapable of running His own kingdom as King, and that of course is blasphemous.

If I think that by stepping aside and letting God handle it, nothing is going to happen, this only indicates that I do not really believe in God or in the competence of Jesus Christ. I am assuming that if it were not for folks like me doing the work and keeping God in business, He would be in bad shape. That is the only logical conclusion we can draw when anyone assumes, “If I let Jesus do it, nothing will happen.”"

When you are truly relaxed in the Lord, stripped of self-effort, and experiencing His true rest, that rest will nearly always involve more activity than we would otherwise ever know. That is because Christ is in action, and you in your humanity are simply the clothes of His divine activity.

This is the rest of faith. You relax, almost like a spectator, except that it is your hands with which He is at work, your lips with which He is speaking, your eyes with which He sees the need, your ears with which He hears the cry, and your heart with which He loves the lost.

To “let go and let God” is not inactivity, although it may appear that way as you grow out of self-effort. It is Christ-activity – God in action accomplishing divine purposes through human personality. This never reduces our status or worth, but exalts us to the stature of a king: “Those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness will reign in life through One, Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:17). - Major Ian Thomas

You have described my own personal struggle very well. Especially as you describe "grow out of self-effort.
It's sort of like a son at the dinner table trying to mimic his fathers moves to learn to act grown versus...I don't know how to describe the second part. Maybe because I am currently in it more recently and don't understand it as well...

 

[blue_ladybug]

Sorry for the large font, but my eyes are bad.. Anyhoo, Peter, you say I've been beating myself up over so much bad stuff. Well, it's not only me who does that, I think we all do at several times or another. After all that's part of our imperfect nature, to blame ourselves and beat ourselves up for stuff. Good thing God still loves me, no matter how much I moan and pout, and sarcastically blame Him for things.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You have described my own personal struggle very well. Especially as you describe "grow out of self-effort.
It's sort of like a son at the dinner table trying to mimic his fathers moves to learn to act grown versus...I don't know how to describe the second part. Maybe because I am currently in it more recently and don't understand it as well...

I wish I could claim credit, but they are the words of Major Ian Thomas and not myself. Some just have the gift of expressing better than we ever could what we really already believe but just can't find the words to express properly.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Sorry for the large font, but my eyes are bad.. Anyhoo, Peter, you say I've been beating myself up over so much bad stuff. Well, it's not only me who does that, I think we all do at several times or another. After all that's part of our imperfect nature, to blame ourselves and beat ourselves up for stuff. Good thing God still loves me, no matter how much I moan and pout, and sarcastically blame Him for things.

This reminds me of something I recently learned from the Spirit. Temptation is not sin!!
May sound like a no-brainer to some, but that evil hisser had me convinced that I needed to repent for being TEMPTED! It isn't the temptation to start worrying that is a sin. It's if you FALL to it that you have been overcome. (I use that example because the temptation to worry about how I will pay for what I need temporally has been one of my greatest struggles). It's been my biggest area of mistrust, fear and disobedience to my Lord.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This reminds me of something I recently learned from the Spirit. Temptation is not sin!!
May sound like a no-brainer to some, but that evil hisser had me convinced that I needed to repent for being TEMPTED! It isn't the temptation to start worrying that is a sin. It's if you FALL to it that you have been overcome. (I use that example because the temptation to worry about how I will pay for what I need temporally has been one of my greatest struggles). It's been my biggest area of mistrust, fear and disobedience to my Lord.

Have to go for a bit but thought to come back and say (though I don't recommend talking to satan as a general rule) that I actually talked to him when this light hit me that temptation was not sin! It just popped right out of my mouth and I said: stop that! I am not going to repent that you are hissing lies in my ear. YOU repent of it!! OOOOHHHH I hate him so much! But God took care of him right there, beat his butt good! I can't believe I fell for it so long.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

It is your assumption that the "flesh" and the "old man" are synonymous that is throwing you off. They're not. And that is leading you to incorrect conclusions. The old man is dead, but the flesh remains.

Actually, once again you are wrong. The "flesh" is the sin nature working in our old man (Adam) by way of the spirit of this world=the Devil.

Also you do not understand what the word flesh means there, it's not the fleshy body itself but the sin nature working in the old man of flesh=spirit of sin working in our members=body of sin.

That which is born [SUP]G1080[/SUP] of [SUP]G1537[/SUP] the flesh [SUP]G4561[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] flesh; [SUP]G4561[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] that which is born [SUP]G1080[/SUP] of [SUP]G1537[/SUP] the Spirit [SUP]G4151[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] spirit. [SUP]G4151[/SUP]

G4561.......Bible usage.....the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"

1. 1. 1. without any suggestion of depravity
      2. the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
      3. the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
      
      
2. a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
3. the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

So your dual nature after spiritual rebirth in Christ theology is false.