BEHOLD, THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH
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Then one is allocated five months and the other 42 months or 3.5 years one is given to kill the other is not. Things that are different cannot be the same so the one cannot be the other. Not that I deny either of the two but that in lieu of the fact that they are not spoken of in the same manner it would seem that they are not the same.
During the 3 1/2 years, the beast is given authority to make war and conquer the saints. Anyone who will not worship his image or receive his mark will be in danger of being killed. The 5th trumpet is simply a separate plague of wrath, which does not interfere with the events which take place via the beast.
In the same manner, at the 5th trumpet those demonic beings are only allowed to torment the inhabitants of the earth, where at the sounding of the 6th trumpet a third of the earth's population is killed. Just because these demonic beings come out of the same Abyss as the beast, does not mean that both plagues have to be restricted to torment or killing. One is simply torment of the inhabitants and the other is their being killed. One does not cancel out the other.
In the same manner, at the 5th trumpet those demonic beings are only allowed to torment the inhabitants of the earth, where at the sounding of the 6th trumpet a third of the earth's population is killed. Just because these demonic beings come out of the same Abyss as the beast, does not mean that both plagues have to be restricted to torment or killing. One is simply torment of the inhabitants and the other is their being killed. One does not cancel out the other.
In Rev. 13 it does not say that the ones who do not have the name or number are killed but the ones who do not worship the image those are who are killed the ones who do not have the name or number it says cannot buy nor sell.
In between the 5th and the 6th trumpet you have to decide if the first trumpet sounds before the ones sealed with the mark of God and the ones sealed with the mark of the beast are both present in the world that is why it begins at all to unfold the wrath. If the beast and those who receive his mark are not present before opening the first the wrath is not only poured out on those with the mark of the beast then so the first is the beginning of the wrath.
In between the 5th and the 6th trumpet you have to decide if the first trumpet sounds before the ones sealed with the mark of God and the ones sealed with the mark of the beast are both present in the world that is why it begins at all to unfold the wrath. If the beast and those who receive his mark are not present before opening the first the wrath is not only poured out on those with the mark of the beast then so the first is the beginning of the wrath.
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You are correct in that it states that those who will not worship the image must be killed. However, if one does not take the mark, then it would make them enemies of the beast. Therefore, I think that it is accurate to assume that anyone who does not receive his mark will be viewed as an enemy and in danger of death.
The 1st trumpet is symbolic representing the antichrist. It is the beginning of the seven years. The sealing of the 144,000, as well as the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments all take place within that last seven years. Scripture demonstrates that the mark of the beast does not become mandatory until the middle of the seven years, being required for everyone during that last 3 1/2 years. For without the mark, no one will be able to buy or sell.
The 1st trumpet is symbolic representing the antichrist. It is the beginning of the seven years. The sealing of the 144,000, as well as the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments all take place within that last seven years. Scripture demonstrates that the mark of the beast does not become mandatory until the middle of the seven years, being required for everyone during that last 3 1/2 years. For without the mark, no one will be able to buy or sell.
Brother Ahwatukee,
What nation (city state if you want) is the iron legs......Rome
What nation is the 4th beast.....Rome
Which nation is the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in Rev 17.......Rome
What nation/city that has 7 hills does the woman in Rev ch 17 sit on........Rome
Who is the beast.......The nation/city of Rome
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The beast that comes out of the abyss (thank you) at the 5th trumpet is Rome, Rome, Rome, Rome, Rome, 1929
in 1929 Rome became a nation again, with borders and a capital.
And , by golly, guess what,
It sits in EXACTLY the same place it did 2000 years ago, how could this be?
Oh, and it has a king,
Caesar,
OH, he doesn't have the power of the old Caesar,
He's just the image of the past.
A leftover from another era.
A religion of Caesar worship from the past.
Yes, oh yes, he (the spirit of Satan/Caesar) did kill millions of Jews and Christians who would not acknowledge him as the holy father/god.
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Why try to change the meaning of the beast at the 5th trumpet?
The spirit of Satan is in Rome, who is the beast, 4th.
The head of Rome is Caesar/the Bishop of Rome.
The beast is Rome,
The statue of the nations in Dan 2, cannot be altered.
The iron legs are Rome.
The 4th beast of Dan 7 is Rome.
But now you want the beast not to be Rome.
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The angel is a spirit, the spirit of Caesar, Rome.
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The flesh of men that the beast, 4th, dwells in is the nation Rome.
When the beast/Rome/angel/spirit comes out of the abyss,
He kills the 2 witnesses of the scroll.
How does the spirit of Satan kill the 2 witnesses?
With the armies that cross the Euphrates.
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No, there is only one definition for the 4th beast, the iron legs, and the beast of Rev chs 12, 13, 17,
That is Rome.
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The statue of the nations in Dan 2, cannot be altered.
The iron legs are Rome.
The 4th beast of Dan 7 is Rome.
But now you want the beast not to be Rome.
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The angel is a spirit, the spirit of Caesar, Rome.
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The flesh of men that the beast, 4th, dwells in is the nation Rome.
When the beast/Rome/angel/spirit comes out of the abyss,
He kills the 2 witnesses of the scroll.
How does the spirit of Satan kill the 2 witnesses?
With the armies that cross the Euphrates.
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No, there is only one definition for the 4th beast, the iron legs, and the beast of Rev chs 12, 13, 17,
That is Rome.
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My Brother,
You don't recognize the Antichrist do you?
He is the Bishop of Rome, who rules his spiritual kingdom with the spirit of Caesar/Satan.
He has killed the wild and natural branches for 2000 years.
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Every time that you say that the BoR/ image of Caesar, is not the Antichrist, that the Antichrist is yet to come,
you are missing him.
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Most numbers that are in Rev and the Bible, hold some kind of symbolic meaning.
The 7 times are not literal years, they are symbolic of the same time as the statue in Dan. 2.
The 7 times are the time from Babylon until 1967 when Israel was restored to Jerusalem.
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The 7 times begin at the angel in Dan 12, who describes the first 3 1/2 times as being,
The time until the power of the holy people is scattered, 70 ad.
Then the 2nd 3 1/2 times is from 70 ad until 1967, when the natural branches of Israel are restored to Jerusalem,
Completing the 7 times of the statue in Dan 2.
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See how the 4th beast, Rome, dominates the Pentecost Kingdom and the natural branches during this time.
Mass slaughter by Rome for hundreds/2000 yrs.
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And you fail to recognize him.
How long does the 8th head of the Roman beast (4th) live, Rev 17?
From the fall of Rome until his spiritual destruction, (2nd death implied).
He lives for over 1500 years.
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Check out the 4th beast (Rome) in Dan 7.
How long does he have power, 3 1/2 times.
How long has Rome been in power over Israel?
2000 years, until 1967.
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The 7 times are not literal years but are the same time as the statue of the nations in Dan 2.
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The BoR is the Antichrist/image of Caesar,
Sorry you just can't see it.
Even Martin Luther once wrote that the BoR was the Antichrist.
P
An ashen cross????
The cross as a symbol of the demonic????
Cant buy or sell without an ashen cross????
I have no cross on my hand or head and buy and sell freely.
Historicists have the most unbelievable assertions of any erroneous teaching of the end times.
Look what they/you do with the flying scorpions.
The cross as a symbol of the demonic????
Cant buy or sell without an ashen cross????
I have no cross on my hand or head and buy and sell freely.
Historicists have the most unbelievable assertions of any erroneous teaching of the end times.
Look what they/you do with the flying scorpions.
Maybe you are right, that it is nothing.
So next Lent,
You just run down to the RCC, or some other group that practices that ritual,
And have that mark put on YOUR forehead.
Then go to the congregation where you attend and say, "Look at this cool mark on my forehead, you all should get one".
And don't worry, because the ashes will wash off and maybe Jesus will forget that you got that mark.
Go back 500 years and don't go to the priest to get the mark.
See if you are not subject to punishment from the Bishop of Rome.
No, because the trib ended in 1967, when Israel was restored to Jerusalem,
And the Antichrist's power over Israel ended.
Box.
You know my understanding is a little different.
Ok, I'll bite, pick your topic and scripture.
Locusts. (5th trump)
The description is showing the spirits of the men, who are the Roman nation beast ascending (4th, Dan.7) from the abyss, 1929.
Symbolic of literal events.
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Hello Rickyz,
That is a good question and I have a good scriptural answer. From Revelation chapter 1 thru 3, the word "Ekklesia" translated as "church" is used throughout those chapters. In addition, the word "Hagios" translated as "saints" is never used within those same chapters. Likewise, from chapter 4 onward the word Hagios/Saints is used and the word Ekklesia/church is never used. God is making a distinction here. That the word church is used specifically in those first three chapters and then is never seen again after the end of the chapter 3, is demonstrating that the church is no longer on the earth. Now, if both the words church and saints were used interchangeably throughout the entire book of Revelation, then it would be non-issue. So, who are these saints?
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"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."
"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
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First of all, the fact that the elder is even asking John who this group is, demonstrates that it is not the church, of whom John was previously told to write letters to. In addition, John says that he doesn't know who this group is. The elder then tells him that, "these are those who have come out of the great tribulation."
This group is never referred to as the church, but always as saints. These are those who will have become believers in Christ after the church has been removed from the earth. The distinction being made is a clue in God's word that the church is not present during the time of God's wrath, which begins in chapter 6 with the opening of the seals.
The key to understanding the chronology of Revelation, is found in Rev.1:19 where Jesus tells John to Write:
What you have seen = Includes everything written from Rev.1:1 to verse 19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also represents the church period
What will take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now" i.e. after the church period
That said, we are currently still in the "what is now" i.e. we are still in the church period. Once the church has been removed, then the "what will take place later" will begin, which contains the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements, leading up to the return of Christ to the earth to end the age.
Conclusion: The saints that the beast is given authority over to make war against and to conquer during that last 3 1/2 years, will be that group of white robed saints, which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language. These are those who are referred to throughout the entire narrative and the church is never mentioned during that time. It is not until Rev.19:6-8 that the church is mentioned as the bride, where she is receiving here fine clothing, white and clean at the wedding of the Lamb. The bride/church is also show following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses in Rev.19:14, for they are wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that they will have previously received at the wedding. The church is also referred to one more time in Rev.22, though it is outside of the narrative.
That is a good question and I have a good scriptural answer. From Revelation chapter 1 thru 3, the word "Ekklesia" translated as "church" is used throughout those chapters. In addition, the word "Hagios" translated as "saints" is never used within those same chapters. Likewise, from chapter 4 onward the word Hagios/Saints is used and the word Ekklesia/church is never used. God is making a distinction here. That the word church is used specifically in those first three chapters and then is never seen again after the end of the chapter 3, is demonstrating that the church is no longer on the earth. Now, if both the words church and saints were used interchangeably throughout the entire book of Revelation, then it would be non-issue. So, who are these saints?
======================================
"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."
"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
=====================================
First of all, the fact that the elder is even asking John who this group is, demonstrates that it is not the church, of whom John was previously told to write letters to. In addition, John says that he doesn't know who this group is. The elder then tells him that, "these are those who have come out of the great tribulation."
This group is never referred to as the church, but always as saints. These are those who will have become believers in Christ after the church has been removed from the earth. The distinction being made is a clue in God's word that the church is not present during the time of God's wrath, which begins in chapter 6 with the opening of the seals.
The key to understanding the chronology of Revelation, is found in Rev.1:19 where Jesus tells John to Write:
What you have seen = Includes everything written from Rev.1:1 to verse 19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also represents the church period
What will take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now" i.e. after the church period
That said, we are currently still in the "what is now" i.e. we are still in the church period. Once the church has been removed, then the "what will take place later" will begin, which contains the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements, leading up to the return of Christ to the earth to end the age.
Conclusion: The saints that the beast is given authority over to make war against and to conquer during that last 3 1/2 years, will be that group of white robed saints, which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language. These are those who are referred to throughout the entire narrative and the church is never mentioned during that time. It is not until Rev.19:6-8 that the church is mentioned as the bride, where she is receiving here fine clothing, white and clean at the wedding of the Lamb. The bride/church is also show following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses in Rev.19:14, for they are wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that they will have previously received at the wedding. The church is also referred to one more time in Rev.22, though it is outside of the narrative.
Hello John,
The beast is not thrown into the Abyss at the 5th trumpet, but comes out at that time. And that because that angel is opening the Abyss and releasing those demonic beings that look like locusts. It is at this same time where the angel of the Abyss, their king, comes out also. The Abyss remains open from the sounding of the 5th trumpet all the way until Christ returns to the earth to end the age. At that time that angel seizes Satan and throws him into the Abyss and then locks it back up again, so that he unable to deceive the nations during Christ's thousand year reign.
The beast is not thrown into the Abyss at the 5th trumpet, but comes out at that time. And that because that angel is opening the Abyss and releasing those demonic beings that look like locusts. It is at this same time where the angel of the Abyss, their king, comes out also. The Abyss remains open from the sounding of the 5th trumpet all the way until Christ returns to the earth to end the age. At that time that angel seizes Satan and throws him into the Abyss and then locks it back up again, so that he unable to deceive the nations during Christ's thousand year reign.