Being without sin
- Thread starter MahogonySnail
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See, here's the funny thing...so many people will advocate what Snail said, that we can actually be without sin.
Yet, I post examples where people in Scripture DID NOT sin, and many times the same people who advocate what Snail said are shocked that I would call those people sinless and try to refute it, despite the plain sense of the text.
Yet, I post examples where people in Scripture DID NOT sin, and many times the same people who advocate what Snail said are shocked that I would call those people sinless and try to refute it, despite the plain sense of the text.
S
There's nothing wrong with being confessed up to date and not be living in any known sin, until conviction comes and goes deep to reveal the hidden things of the heart through the light of God's quick, powerful and penetrating word. Then we better agree with our adversary quickly, while we are in the way with Him lest He ... (you read the rest). If we don't agree quickly we get into trouble. Many believers are not living in any moral sin but in their heart they are having lots of trouble with unbelief and agreeing with God and that has to do with iniquity and not transgressions. They are double-minded but they would never call that sin, even though they are unstable in all their ways.
then your doctrine on salvation would call Jesus Christ a lair, for he would not had been able to say to the man on the cross; today you will be with me , but he would had to say well we will just have to wait until the judgement day to see if your faith in me will get you in, and according to the Gospel of distinctiveministry, the Bible would be wrong when it says :
Eph 1:13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED unto the day of redemption.
sorry I believe I will pass on the salvation that you teach.
we are saved from hell,
Eph 1:13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED unto the day of redemption.
sorry I believe I will pass on the salvation that you teach.
we are saved from hell,
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you are playing on words distinctiveministry, saved means what? we are saved from God's wrath (not just physical death) so in a sense you are correct, but the terminology of being 'saved' is part of the umbrella term 'Salvation' this is where your thought line has become confused.
Christians are born again, Christs righteousness is imputed to you as where your sins to Him on the cross.
Your are justified and then Adopted into the kingdom of God (the process is almost instant) you become an heir of the promise in Christ.
Now, to put it simply.
You have been saved (born again/a new creation)--
you are being saved (Sanctification - simpler put -our walk in being more like Jesus -- light to the world)
And you will be saved (Glorification)
Couldn't be any simpler! One point to make although we are saved from Spiritual death, sin has no power over us even though we may sin, for Christ has defeated the Stranglehold.
Kind regards
Phil
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we are saved in him, given the birth of the spirit.
we are being saved from our sin nature as we put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the spirit.
we will be saved when we put off this body of sin, this perishable flesh, to put on immortality, our heavenly bodies, meet to contain the precious gift of god, eternal life in jesus christ.
we are being saved from our sin nature as we put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the spirit.
we will be saved when we put off this body of sin, this perishable flesh, to put on immortality, our heavenly bodies, meet to contain the precious gift of god, eternal life in jesus christ.
I'm pretty sure I can hold to my stated convictions about when we are saved and still agree to those verses about being sealed. Read Ephesians 4:30 again (you quoted it, after all), we are sealed "unto the day of redemption", meaning we are not yet redeemed, just given the Spirit of God as a guarantee of the promise of being redeemed IN THAT DAY.
Also, look at these two versions of what Jesus said on the cross and realize A) there is no puntuation in koine Greek and the punctuation is not inspired and B) that either translation is equally valid grammatically.
Luke 23:43 "And He said to him, 'Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.'"
Luke 23:43 "And He said to him, 'Truly I say to you today, you sahll be with Me in Paradise.'"
What a difference punctuation makes!
Also, look at these two versions of what Jesus said on the cross and realize A) there is no puntuation in koine Greek and the punctuation is not inspired and B) that either translation is equally valid grammatically.
Luke 23:43 "And He said to him, 'Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.'"
Luke 23:43 "And He said to him, 'Truly I say to you today, you sahll be with Me in Paradise.'"
What a difference punctuation makes!
S
It's astounding what the carnal man thinks about God's salvation and that we, as believers, can not have an assurance of faith and if we do then we are being presumptuous. If that's the case then we should also be accused of being presumptuous against every promise from God. Faith believes in the promises of God and salvation was a promise to those that believe / Acts 16:31. Faith is not presumptuous because it is rooted in the nature and character of God. Any faith not grounded in the nature and character of God and the promises of His word is not the faith of the Son of God that we are to live by and become rooted in / Gal 2:20, Col 1:23.
Anyone that believes that they can lose, walk away or have their salvation postponed that God has provided through His Son by grace and according to promise, does not understand the nature of God, His promises or what it means to walk by faith. They themselves are lost to these things and never are able to understand the things that are freely given to them by grace and the blood of Christ such as justification / 1Cor 2:12, Rom 4:5, 5:16,18. You want scripture on the nature of God ...
2Pt 1:2-4 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This divine nature comes from being born of the incorruptible seed of the word of God / 1Pt 1:23 as a new creature /2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:15, born of God through the Spirit / 1Jn 3:9, Jn 3:5,6,8. Is anyone going to say that the word and the Spirit does not come from God's divine nature? If you do then perhaps you do not have the Spirit and have never been regenerated by the Spirit / Titus 3:5,6. Our new nature through Christ feeds off the promises of God which are all yea and amen in Him / 2Cor 1:20. Meaning that God has provided them for our new nature so that we might live and experience the life that we have in Christ, and escape the corruption and lust that is in the world through the old sin nature of Adam, that old creature.
Anyone that believes that they can lose, walk away or have their salvation postponed that God has provided through His Son by grace and according to promise, does not understand the nature of God, His promises or what it means to walk by faith. They themselves are lost to these things and never are able to understand the things that are freely given to them by grace and the blood of Christ such as justification / 1Cor 2:12, Rom 4:5, 5:16,18. You want scripture on the nature of God ...
2Pt 1:2-4 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This divine nature comes from being born of the incorruptible seed of the word of God / 1Pt 1:23 as a new creature /2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:15, born of God through the Spirit / 1Jn 3:9, Jn 3:5,6,8. Is anyone going to say that the word and the Spirit does not come from God's divine nature? If you do then perhaps you do not have the Spirit and have never been regenerated by the Spirit / Titus 3:5,6. Our new nature through Christ feeds off the promises of God which are all yea and amen in Him / 2Cor 1:20. Meaning that God has provided them for our new nature so that we might live and experience the life that we have in Christ, and escape the corruption and lust that is in the world through the old sin nature of Adam, that old creature.
Hey Phil, don't know if you had time to look at the blog I linked to or not, but as I said, it is incomplete. I have done a similar study of the use of soteria (salvation) and it's derivative forms in the NT and have been just as unconvinced about our present state of salvation through this study.
Likewise, there are a number of things that we can say we are being saved from as a result of God's grace, but my concern is to understand what Christ and His disciples understood when they made reference to salvation. Again and again without deviation scripture seems to ultimately have in mind the second death as the final enemy from which we are saved. From the very beginning, in fact, the stated enemy has always been death- "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die". Since the immortality of the soul became a widely accepted doctrine in the post-Apostolic era (it certainly is not a Hebrew or Apostolic idea) it has been increasingly difficult to maintain the narrower understanding of salvation afforded by scripture (alone).
As for the have been/are being/will be saved statement....where does scripture say that we have been (past tense) saved? It doesn't, as my blog spells out rather tediously. Are being saved? From what...since you point to sanctification, then you must mean being saved from sinning. Again, scripture never says we are being saved (passive progressive) from sinning; it commands us to stop sinning (not in our own strength, but not without it either). Will be saved...I obviously agree with this.
Now let's just wait and see how badly I get hammered for this....
Likewise, there are a number of things that we can say we are being saved from as a result of God's grace, but my concern is to understand what Christ and His disciples understood when they made reference to salvation. Again and again without deviation scripture seems to ultimately have in mind the second death as the final enemy from which we are saved. From the very beginning, in fact, the stated enemy has always been death- "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die". Since the immortality of the soul became a widely accepted doctrine in the post-Apostolic era (it certainly is not a Hebrew or Apostolic idea) it has been increasingly difficult to maintain the narrower understanding of salvation afforded by scripture (alone).
As for the have been/are being/will be saved statement....where does scripture say that we have been (past tense) saved? It doesn't, as my blog spells out rather tediously. Are being saved? From what...since you point to sanctification, then you must mean being saved from sinning. Again, scripture never says we are being saved (passive progressive) from sinning; it commands us to stop sinning (not in our own strength, but not without it either). Will be saved...I obviously agree with this.
Now let's just wait and see how badly I get hammered for this....
S
Dear Resurrection,
You could choose to be angry at this or any driver that cuts you off, that is your free will, BUT instead you could choose to completely and instantly forgive this driver as well, WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY.............THE SPIRIT IS WILLING (to forgive the driver.....) BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK (and probably won't forgive the driver......) So, you as all have a choice, this is the deeper understanding of SURRENDER to The SPIRIT within you......
As you say you seek PERFECTION........Well next time in traffic, give The SPIRIT HIS way in this, and instead, pray for that driver that just cut you off, pray for his/her salvation, and that they would know CHRIST as LIFE ..........Just as you do. Pray for their peace, and that maybe you will meet them and be able to tell them your story of how JESUS saved you.
Just a thought........
SeekinHIM
You could choose to be angry at this or any driver that cuts you off, that is your free will, BUT instead you could choose to completely and instantly forgive this driver as well, WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY.............THE SPIRIT IS WILLING (to forgive the driver.....) BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK (and probably won't forgive the driver......) So, you as all have a choice, this is the deeper understanding of SURRENDER to The SPIRIT within you......
As you say you seek PERFECTION........Well next time in traffic, give The SPIRIT HIS way in this, and instead, pray for that driver that just cut you off, pray for his/her salvation, and that they would know CHRIST as LIFE ..........Just as you do. Pray for their peace, and that maybe you will meet them and be able to tell them your story of how JESUS saved you.
Just a thought........
SeekinHIM