Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues

sevenseas · Jul 3, 2017

how do you interpret the following?

15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. I Corinthians 14:15

if Paul states he will pray and sing with understanding, what does he mean by saying he will also pray and sing with the spirit?

WHY is there a contrast there?

do you ignore it?

you wish to use scripture to back up your interpretation, which is kind of insulting seeing it does not say what you state, so how do you interpret the above?

anyway, I'll leave you to it. it's futile to show any amount of scripture when people refuse to believe and are determined to avoid actually allowing the Spirit of God to work in their lives in ways they cannot control

there is fear and more working when that happens

but like I said, do carry on explaining why you don't believe

UnderGrace · Jul 3, 2017

I am not insulting anyone, you can believe as you wish, it is not personal, it is about what Paul is saying or not saying.

Just so we are clear, otherwise I will not continue.

sevenseas said:

how do you interpret the following?

15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. I Corinthians 14:15

if Paul states he will pray and sing with understanding, what does he mean by saying he will also pray and sing with the spirit?

WHY is there a contrast there?

do you ignore it?

you wish to use scripture to back up your interpretation, which is kind of insulting seeing it does not say what you state, so how do you interpret the above?

anyway, I'll leave you to it. it's futile to show any amount of scripture when people refuse to believe and are determined to avoid actually allowing the Spirit of God to work in their lives in ways they cannot control

there is fear and more working when that happens

but like I said, do carry on explaining why you don't believe

wolfwint · Jul 3, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Stones why thrn you expressed it in this way? Yes, some have seemly gifts, but if this gifts would be in the quality if they was in the apostolic days, then I wonder that they are not known in the news. We read in acts and in gospel that these gifts were down not in closed rooms, but in open air, so that all, believers ore non beleivers could be a witness from the works of God! I never read, maby i did not read the rigth books/articles, that in a healing service ore in an gospel meeting all sick people which came to this meeting are be healed! This is a very big different to that what we read about the gifts in acts and gospels!
So there is no proof that these gifts are the same like in the apostolic days! And there are enough people which claim to have the same gifts, but without be a christian! Even to have the gift of speaking in tongues!

Stones, thank you for your concern! I dont doubt that God is giving spiritual gifts today, too. But I doubt that he does it in the way like pentecostals and charismatics claim it.

UnderGrace · Jul 3, 2017

Corinthians
Verse 15 in context

12. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

(At the risk of sounding monotonous, Paul continues to emphasize edification. As much as the Corinthians desired spiritual gifts, they must excel in using them to edify the Church only. They are not for the individual)

13. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue (foreign language) pray that he may interpret.

(Therefore the person with the gift of tongue speaking must have someone interpret if the others do not understand the language so the Church is edified. See also verses 5,26,27 and 28)

14. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, (foreign language) my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

(Paul is saying if he prays in a language those around him do not know, he might be praying fervently and by his own spirit but his thoughts would be unfruitful for those listening. This of course is a violation of the purpose of the gift which is to edify others)

15. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

(Paul also clarifies that his prayer or song IS done with his understanding. It is the listener who does not understand)

16. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

(Paul continues to explain the previous two verses as to how his prayer does not edify the others and they cannot say Amen or “so be it” if the other does not know what the person prayed. Without an interpreter, you have no idea what was said and you may be saying “so be it” to a blessing from the devil for all you know)

shrume · Jul 3, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Again, the word "gifts" which you highlighted, is not in the Greek. The word is "pneumatikos", and it means "spiritual things", or spiritual matters".

That's simply not true. When a person speaks in tongues, he edifies himself, he is speaking divine secrets to God, he is magnifying God, he is speaking the wonderful works of God, he is giving thanks well.

I simply do not understand why you cannot see the words that are written.

13. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.

The person speaking in tongues is to be the one to interpret.

Paul's thoughts would be unfruitful to Paul. When a person speaks in tongues, he does not know what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2, 14).

The purpose of the manifestation of tongues is edification. When a person speaks in tongues to himself, it edifies him. When a person speaks in tongues in public, he must interpret so the church can be edified.

No. Paul says he speaks in tongues (something he does NOT understand, his mind is unfruitful) and he prays with his understanding (which he DOES understand.)

Which is why when tongues is spoken in public, it must be interpreted.

And tongues is absolutely NEVER a "blessing from the devil".

Sigh... This Bible discussion forum is like every other Bible discussion forum. People have already decided what they believe and their minds are closed to learning anything.

stonesoffire · Jul 3, 2017

wolfwint said:

Stones why thrn you expressed it in this way? Yes, some have seemly gifts, but if this gifts would be in the quality if they was in the apostolic days, then I wonder that they are not known in the news. We read in acts and in gospel that these gifts were down not in closed rooms, but in open air, so that all, believers ore non beleivers could be a witness from the works of God! I never read, maby i did not read the rigth books/articles, that in a healing service ore in an gospel meeting all sick people which came to this meeting are be healed! This is a very big different to that what we read about the gifts in acts and gospels!
So there is no proof that these gifts are the same like in the apostolic days! And there are enough people which claim to have the same gifts, but without be a christian! Even to have the gift of speaking in tongues!

Stones, thank you for your concern! I dont doubt that God is giving spiritual gifts today, too. But I doubt that he does it in the way like pentecostals and charismatics claim it.

I could post many videos of miracles that are happening right now...and actually have posted in the miscellaneous thread. But, it's casting pearls and too precious to do....

You just aren't in the right "circles" to see.

wolfwint · Jul 3, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Does this Videos proof that everybody who seeks healing was healed? Proof this Videos who is behind this healings.
As I said it in my previous Post. I doubt not that God is useing today miracles and healings for to show his power, but i doubt the the way some" circles " claim and try to proof it.

wolfwint · Jul 3, 2017

BTW I am not guide die from any " circles" I measure it with the God's revealed scripture!

stonesoffire · Jul 3, 2017

wolfwint said:

No, not all are healed. There's the difference between Jesus and His body. He healed all who came to Him. The body as a whole I'm sure, has healed every manner of disease...because it is His Spirit moving through men or women. Nothing of us other than we hear, see and then do.

I follow certain ministries, and have posted of one mostly here. I know his ministry. He comes from a family of ministries. And he is an awesome young man who has a powerful wife too in her own right, raising their children in the ways of the Lord, and is sold out completely for the Lord to use.

I don't doubt at all the things that happen. I too received a healing from one of his meetings.

God is still here. He didn't leave. And He's looking for those who will believe He is the same as He was when He first came.

wolfwint · Jul 3, 2017

shrume said:

Shrume, what you call "manifestation" is in greek the word "[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]phanerôsis"
In 1. Corinther 12, 7 we find two different words : [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]phanerôsis (in Nestle Alland) and apokalypsis (in Strongs) for the same word. So it seems that apokalypis is a synonym for [FONT=Times New Roman, Times][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]phanerôsis! [/FONT][/FONT] KJV and Darby says: Manifestation, and means to make something visible ore to reveal something. In germany this word is translatet for gift, ore revealation. (it makes me little confus first, because i found in german around 8 meanings for the english word manifestation) But I agree that the best meaning is to make something visible. The content of this making visible seems to be that what Paul listet then in Vers 8 a list of gifts! It is not said that this list would be compleate! And it is also not said that every believer has all this 9 gifts given.

[/FONT]For better understanding: When you say: "Every Christian has the gift of holy Spirit" Then you mean with gift:
a) the Holy Spirit ore
b) the particular gift: f.e. : healing and this is then called a [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]phanerôsis[/FONT]

this is not clear to me. But it makes a different!

If it is a particular gift like f.e. healing. where it is written that we can manifest it? Always the Holy Spirit is the actor and not we as believers.

Yes, i believe too, that it was in the 1.st century. But it was not in between taught! And that I would expect that through the whole curchhistory we woud found this teaching. But we find this teaching createt in around 1900. And not during the churchhistory. And then people had to come to Azusa Street ore went from Azusa Street for to preach and share theSpirit which they received during theAzusa Street events. Thats strange!
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][/FONT][/FONT]

notuptome · Jul 3, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Contradictory statements much?

What scripture are you going to use to support the contention that Jesus healed all who came to Him?

He is still seeking to save lost souls.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

peacefulbeliever · Jul 3, 2017

shrume said:

This is a Bible discussion forum. Yes, people will believe what they want to believe but that shouldn't stop someone from speaking up for what they believe to be truth. I know when it comes to certain subjects - hey, my mind is made up also. You never know though who is reading and studying what you are putting forth . . . keep speaking truth!

I don't know how many times I have corrected people concerning "gifts" and "manifestation" . . . I even get "likes" but then you'll be reading a post where someone agreed with you yet here they are again calling the nine manifestations of the Spirit - "gifts".

stonesoffire · Jul 3, 2017

[/QUOTE]

~Act 10:38　 God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and because God was with him, he went around doing good and healing everyone who was oppressed by the devil.　

[/QUOTE]

Amen

stonesoffire · Jul 3, 2017

peacefulbeliever said:

This is a Bible discussion forum. Yes, people will believe what they want to believe but that shouldn't stop someone from speaking up for what they believe to be truth. I know when it comes to certain subjects - hey, my mind is made up also. You never know though who is reading and studying what you are putting forth . . . keep speaking truth!

I don't know how many times I have corrected people concerning "gifts" and "manifestation" . . . I even get "likes" but then you'll be reading a post where someone agreed with you yet here they are again calling the nine manifestations of the Spirit - "gifts".

I know I do this. Is just a habit. Just need to stop and think before posting.

shrume · Jul 3, 2017

wolfwint said:

I agree to this point. A meaning of "manifestation is "making plain" or "making visible".

No, vv8-10 are a list of manifestations. Nine different ways the gift of holy Spirit is "made plain", or "made visible".

Earlier I mentioned the analogy of the Swiss Army knife. Another example might be a light bulb. A light bulb has two manifestations: light and heat. They are not "gifts" that the light bulb gives, they are different ways the light bulb can manifest itself, or "make itself plain".

I do not know of any other verse in the Bible that defines or describes any other manifestation besides those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10. Do you?

They are not gifts, they are manifestations OF the gift of holy spirit.

And the bible distinctly states that the manifestation of the spirit is given to EVERY man (meaning Christian) (1 Cor 12:7).

I mean that every Christian has the gift of holy Spirit, and that every Christian has the ability to manifest that gift in nine different ways. The manifestation of "gifts of healing" is the only manifestation that is called a "gift" because healings are ALWAYS a gift.

When the apostles spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost, who did the speaking? The apostles did. When Peter heard Cornelius and his family speaking in tongues in Acts 10, who did the speaking? Cornelius and his family did. When people prophesy, who does the speaking? The prophets do. "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Cor 14:32).

Christians are responsible for the operation of the manifestations of the gift of Holy spirit. Because of the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, you have the ability to speak in tongues whenever you want to. If you don't know you can, you won't.

That being said, several of the manifestations require revelation from God. You can't just demand a miracle to be performed. You can't demand that someone be healed. God has to give you the go-ahead, and then it's up to you to carry it out. An example of that is in Acts 14:
8) And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
9) The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
10) Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

Paul "perceiving that he had the faith to be healed" was revelation from God (word of knowledge and word of wisdom, two more of the manifestations).

Again, we have an Adversary, and I believe he worked (and still works!) overtime to minimize and corrupt the truth of what God made available to Christians through the gift of holy Spirit.

jaybird88 · Jul 3, 2017

shrume said:

how does one improve themselves by this? can you give an example.

what things are secret from the Most High that He would not already know?

one can do this in any language.

shrume · Jul 3, 2017

jaybird88 said:

Do you mean aside from the Bible TELLING us that we are edified by speaking in tongues?

A big one for me is that I know I am saved, that I am a child of God, and will have everlasting life.

I do not know for sure, but that is what the Bible says:

1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

"Mysteries" is "musterion", and it means "divine secrets".

While that is true, is that a valid reason not to want to speak in tongues? See 1 Cor 14:5a.

UnderGrace · Jul 3, 2017

Strong's #3466: musterion (pronounced moos-tay'-ree-on)

from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

The communication of "mysteries" did not require ecstatic speech. Paul clearly revealed and taught mysteries ... in Greek..

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery (Gk. musterion) which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; (Romans 16:25-26 NASB)

shrume said:

jaybird88 · Jul 3, 2017

shrume said:

not what i asked, i asked how does tongues improve a Christian?

are you saying that unless one can speak in this spirit language one can never be saved?

so speaking in tongues allows one to speak in mysteries yet the tongues dont tell you what the mysteries are? im not getting what the point of that would be?

then whats the point of doing these thngs in the spirit language if it is no different than any other language?

if i could speak in a different language and speak to other people from other cultures, that would be a great benefit. speaking in a spirit language doesnt seem to offer any benefit aside what i can say in my own language.

as far as mysteries, divine revelations, i believe one can receive these things, but i believe one must fast, pray, meditate, make lots and lots and lots of self sacrifice to receive this. you have to really want it, its not as simple as going into your room, closing the door, and turning on the prayer language. the ancient Essenes were into these mysteries, they gave up everything to receive these mysteries,no women, no family, separation from civilization, no meat diet, etc etc. every day from sun up to sun down they devoted every minute to the Most High. they didnt even go to the bathroom on the sabbath. people like Josephus and Philo said they were very spiritually advanced. and when we read their theology writings, tongues and spirit languages are never mentioned.

notuptome · Jul 3, 2017

~Act 10:38　 God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and because God was with him, he went around doing good and healing everyone who was oppressed by the devil.　

Context? Is Peter citing physical healings or forgiveness of sins?

What did Jesus say? Which is easier to say thy sins are forgiven or take up thy bed and walk?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues

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