If we are to receive God's mercy, we are going to receive it on His terms not our own. We can't will it any other way. God has set the terms through His Son Jesus Christ. If we want to receive God's mercy we must do it through Jesus Christ. We must believe on the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no other way.
Calvinism - Total Depravity
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Don't add to Scripture to suit a theology. Scripture says the Lord will draw all men to Himself after He is lifted up. All men means all men, not all that has been elected by God.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Did you not read what they both denied. One Denied Free Will,,,, the other Denied predestination as only GOD could do. He knows what you are going to do...He knows were you are going to wind up in the end. Scary isn't it?????????? But yet because HE knows,,,it was your free will that got you there. WOW
God's free will wins every-time.
God created a will that was subject to His word, if they walked by faith the unseen..
The voice of Satan as that not seen entered the mouth of the serpent as that seen. Because they did the will of another they died. God did not want them to experience doing the good pleasure of another will. We do not walk after what we experience. That would be the opposite of walking by the faith of God.
The Son of man is used as an example of what free will really is. He did the will of the father the meat the disciples knew not of. and not that of his self. Free will to a Christian is to do the will of God, those who do not, are slaves to sin as that which they call free will..
We walk by faith not by sight of experiencing something with our eyes or flesh .. That can provide pride not a free will .
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
God created a will that was subject to His word, if they walked by faith the unseen..
The voice of Satan as that not seen entered the mouth of the serpent as that seen. Because they did the will of another they died. God did not want them to experience doing the good pleasure of another will. We do not walk after what we experience. That would be the opposite of walking by the faith of God.
The Son of man is used as an example of what free will really is. He did the will of the father the meat the disciples knew not of. and not that of his self. Free will to a Christian is to do the will of God, those who do not, are slaves to sin as that which they call free will..
We walk by faith not by sight of experiencing something with our eyes or flesh .. That can provide pride not a free will .
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
I hope you read the next verse brother... "He said this to indicate what kind of death he was going to die" This was in reference to the cross... So he was going to be lifted up from the earth which means on the cross he will be lifted and the "will draw all men unto me" is in reference to the scope of his death. It will be known by all men which means Greeks, Romans, Jews, Samaritans and probably travelling Gentiles who would pass on the way to the city. Its very obvious by verse 33 that its talking about his death on a cross not about drawing all people to salvation. Jesus is NOT saying that, period.
The key to understanding is the word as many, it defines the all.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Think for a second, God created man knowing what every single one of us would do in our lives, we call that foreknowledge, now you say he predestined people based on Him knowing what we would do (you call that free will). The problem is he wanted things to happen that way otherwise he would have created things differently, now even if God didn't have foreknowledge, his creatures would still be bound by the design of the creator, much like a car cannot fly so we can't do anything outside of that we were created to do and be anything outside of that we were created to be, and everything is according to God's will.
Let me ask you??//// If the scenario above was without Satan or any agenda that would pull man in a different direction,(free will is applied),,,,HOW MANY would Accept Jesus Christ as their savior and HOW MANY would Reject Him.
We blame the devil (Satan) for a menagerie trials and tribulations that really are just part of living. It is my belief that the numbers would remain the same as they are today simply because man 's lifestyle is far more addictive than that lifestyle that requires you to follow a narrow path to our Lord Jesus Christ.
What do yo think???
That would depend on "whose faith" as a work the faith? Do we have it in respect Christ or one self? If we have the faith of Christ, the faith of God in respect to our own faith coming from the imaginations of our heart ,Christ calls that no faith. It blasphemes His holy name by which we are called. We are to have no gods before Him which of course includes our self.
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I did not say that.
I said I do not get my belief of what others believe based on something written by other men, I like to listen to them, and see what they actually believe.
I am not going to go to an anti calvanist website to try to determine what calvanists believe, I will listen to them (actually have for decades) to determine.
Even if someone I come in contact with says they are calvanist, I will not just assume I know. They may not follow all tenents, and I would be determining they believe something they may not believe.
I said I do not get my belief of what others believe based on something written by other men, I like to listen to them, and see what they actually believe.
I am not going to go to an anti calvanist website to try to determine what calvanists believe, I will listen to them (actually have for decades) to determine.
Even if someone I come in contact with says they are calvanist, I will not just assume I know. They may not follow all tenents, and I would be determining they believe something they may not believe.
If you are a Calvinist do you believe that God will save you against your will? I know you cannot save yourself but will God force you to be saved if you are elect?
Arminian do you believe that you decided you would be saved? Do you believe that you moved toward God and were saved because you elected yourself through your efforts?
Calvinism cannot yield no self will and salvation by predetermination.
Arminianism cannot yield salvation by mans will and attained by courting Gods favor so as to be worthy of salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Arminian do you believe that you decided you would be saved? Do you believe that you moved toward God and were saved because you elected yourself through your efforts?
Calvinism cannot yield no self will and salvation by predetermination.
Arminianism cannot yield salvation by mans will and attained by courting Gods favor so as to be worthy of salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Adding to Scripture is never good. All men means all men. The context was not all men that will be traveling by. In order for Christ to draw all men unto Himself, He must first be lifted up on the cross and die for all men. All men are without excuse. All men have been drawn. Period.
Adding to Scripture is never good. All men means all men. The context was not all men that will be traveling by. In order for Christ to draw all men unto Himself, He must first be lifted up on the cross and die for all men. All men are without excuse. All men have been drawn. Period.
My two cents..
I would think if the was without Satan, the spirit of error, the god of this world who drew men away from the Spirit of Christ by that seen (serpent) .We would have a different Genesis account.
The Spirit of Christ reversed that when he used a donkey to represent the unsaved that must be redeemed by a lamb to show us He is not served with human hands.
No man could Accept Jesus Christ as their savior unless they do his will.as He gives them His faith to make it possible.
When Christ put his words in that ceremonial unclean beast it refrained the madness of that false prophet and helps aid us understand the passages in Exodus as parables that speak directly to the issue.
Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.
Numbers 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
I would think if the was without Satan, the spirit of error, the god of this world who drew men away from the Spirit of Christ by that seen (serpent) .We would have a different Genesis account.
The Spirit of Christ reversed that when he used a donkey to represent the unsaved that must be redeemed by a lamb to show us He is not served with human hands.
No man could Accept Jesus Christ as their savior unless they do his will.as He gives them His faith to make it possible.
When Christ put his words in that ceremonial unclean beast it refrained the madness of that false prophet and helps aid us understand the passages in Exodus as parables that speak directly to the issue.
Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.
Numbers 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
Good thoughts Marano but I disagree... It appears that God has predestined us to Elect or non-Elect mainly because of the names in the Book of Life. IF your name is written in there, you were predestined in you way of thinking.
However, Since God knows all from 'eternity-past', he sees the future and and what names are in the Book of Life. He opens it and sees you name and knows that you will accept him. He also knows the circumstances on how it come about that you accepted him. Does He help by a vision, dream, destruction of a city, etc. or does the circumstance need no intervention but only needs the ordinary trials and tribulations of the present day to bring you to him.???????
Now some time in the future (our present day), you have a life altering problem and as according to the script that God saw in the future, He helps you which in turn brings you to accept Jesus Christ forever. Is this predestination.........sure it is but is is also your free will 1. to listen to God in the first place and then to accept Jesus Christ in the Second place.
Predestination and Free Will. You like each of these doctrines, are leaving out one or the other but each would be the same if they used both terms.....They are that close and that far away.
The question is when will Jesus draw all men unto himself? Oh right the text says when he will do this read verse 32? He will drawn all men unto himself when he is lifted from the earth. When will this drawing take place? When he is lifted upon the cross!!! How do you know that? because verse 33 confirms it to be so. qualify the end of verse 32 with the beginning of verse 32