CAN A REAL CHRISTIAN DENY THE DEITY OF JESUS?
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Peter had not been born again at that time, and it was God's way of proving that without the holy Ghost ,man would deny Jesus under persecution. no one hd been saved at that time. Peter became powerful and full of the Holy Ghost after Jesus departure. On this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail.
More scripture with 'some' explanation..
(2Co 4:14) Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. (KJV)
(2Co 11:31) The God and Father of ‘our’ Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not. (KJV)
(Eph 1:2) Grace be to you, and peace, from God ‘our’ Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (KJV)
(Mar 12:29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord ‘our’ God is one Lord: (Mar 12:30) And thou shalt love the Lord ‘thy’ God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. (KJV)
(Exo 20:2) I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (KJV)
(Exo 20:3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.(KJV)
Praise is to God ‘our’ Father, who raised ‘our’ Lord, Jesus Christ and blessed by him forever.
‘Our’ Lord is Jesus (the) Christ; ‘Our’ God is God Almighty, Lord of ‘all.’
(Joh 15:15) Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. (KJV)
It was customary, very common for those in bondage or in servant status and many were back then, to call their masters, Lords…had nothing to do with God Almighty….this is what Jesus is to me ‘my’ Lord and ‘my’ friend.
Jesus instructed them according to 'our' Father’s words that Jesus ‘our’ Lord (Master) was given throughout his ministry and even today.
In Christ, Always
(2Co 4:14) Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. (KJV)
(2Co 11:31) The God and Father of ‘our’ Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not. (KJV)
(Eph 1:2) Grace be to you, and peace, from God ‘our’ Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (KJV)
(Mar 12:29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord ‘our’ God is one Lord: (Mar 12:30) And thou shalt love the Lord ‘thy’ God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. (KJV)
(Exo 20:2) I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (KJV)
(Exo 20:3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.(KJV)
Praise is to God ‘our’ Father, who raised ‘our’ Lord, Jesus Christ and blessed by him forever.
‘Our’ Lord is Jesus (the) Christ; ‘Our’ God is God Almighty, Lord of ‘all.’
(Joh 15:15) Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. (KJV)
It was customary, very common for those in bondage or in servant status and many were back then, to call their masters, Lords…had nothing to do with God Almighty….this is what Jesus is to me ‘my’ Lord and ‘my’ friend.
Jesus instructed them according to 'our' Father’s words that Jesus ‘our’ Lord (Master) was given throughout his ministry and even today.
In Christ, Always
M
I think a true Christian can deny the deity if Christ (I'm not saying they are
correct by the way). But not everyone is an instant theologian on all biblical
subjects over night.
The trinity takes some getting your head around. It usually takes a revelation from
God, the penny to drop etc. Most children for example just repeat what they are
taught but then a young Christian growing up has to think things through for themselves.
I became a Christian around the age of 11 with absolute certainty. But it didn't
occur to me that Jesus and God were the same for a long time. As for the Holy Spirit I honestly
had no idea who he was, i thought he was some sort of energy from God or something.
It wasn't until I was in my early 30s that I realised the Holy Spirit was a person,
God the Holy Spirit and that's just as important.
People need room to mature and grow in Christ, you don't go from a spiritual, new born to a
pensioner overnight. Just because people haven't figured everything out yet, doesnt mean they are
not Christians.
God doesn't expect us to pass a theological exam before we can be born again.
The same goes for many subjects on here.
Whether a person comes to salvation as a child or comes to salvation as a 70 year
old, they are both babes in Christ for a season. Even the disciples didn't instantly,
realise Jesus was God and they walked, talked and ate with him.
Maybe we need to be directing people to the truth of this aspect, rather than
highlighting their short comings and trying to show them up.
John 14:7-11 NKJV
[7] "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and
from now on you know Him and have seen Him." [8] Philip said to Him,
"Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." [9] Jesus said
to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
[10] Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that
I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in
Me does the works. [11] Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me,
or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
correct by the way). But not everyone is an instant theologian on all biblical
subjects over night.
The trinity takes some getting your head around. It usually takes a revelation from
God, the penny to drop etc. Most children for example just repeat what they are
taught but then a young Christian growing up has to think things through for themselves.
I became a Christian around the age of 11 with absolute certainty. But it didn't
occur to me that Jesus and God were the same for a long time. As for the Holy Spirit I honestly
had no idea who he was, i thought he was some sort of energy from God or something.
It wasn't until I was in my early 30s that I realised the Holy Spirit was a person,
God the Holy Spirit and that's just as important.
People need room to mature and grow in Christ, you don't go from a spiritual, new born to a
pensioner overnight. Just because people haven't figured everything out yet, doesnt mean they are
not Christians.
God doesn't expect us to pass a theological exam before we can be born again.
The same goes for many subjects on here.
Whether a person comes to salvation as a child or comes to salvation as a 70 year
old, they are both babes in Christ for a season. Even the disciples didn't instantly,
realise Jesus was God and they walked, talked and ate with him.
Maybe we need to be directing people to the truth of this aspect, rather than
highlighting their short comings and trying to show them up.
John 14:7-11 NKJV
[7] "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and
from now on you know Him and have seen Him." [8] Philip said to Him,
"Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." [9] Jesus said
to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
[10] Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that
I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in
Me does the works. [11] Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me,
or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
Speaking of the title "Son of God" the modern Bible versions have all done a great disservice to the truth by improperly presenting the FACT that Jesus is the UNIQUELY BEGOTTEN Son of God. While the KJV says "only begotten" (which is still acceptable) the Greek monogenes means uniquely begotten. There has never been such a "begetting".
What does this really mean? Since human procreation cannot be applied within the Godhead, we must acknowledge that there is a unique Father-Son relationship within the Godhead which has existed from eternity past, and will exist in eternity future. Jesus said that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. He also said that "I and the Father are one". So there is no humanistic logic that can be applied to these mysterious statements, thus we have the "mystery of God" and the "mystery of Godliness" in Scripture.
Here is another attack on the deity of Christ within the modern versions (based on the critical Greek texts rather than on the Traditional Text). We look at 1 Timothy 3:16 and see this:
CRITICAL TEXT
Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
MODERN TRANSLATION
English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
TRADITIONAL TEXT
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
REFORMATION TRANSLATION
King James Bible
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Dean John William Burgon had to write a dissertation on this verse in The Revision Revised, since the true reading was THEOS (God) not OS (he or who). Is this of doctrinal significance? Absolutely. "He" can even mean Michael the archangel, and many falsely teach that Jesus is Michael the archangel or simply "a god".
What does this really mean? Since human procreation cannot be applied within the Godhead, we must acknowledge that there is a unique Father-Son relationship within the Godhead which has existed from eternity past, and will exist in eternity future. Jesus said that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. He also said that "I and the Father are one". So there is no humanistic logic that can be applied to these mysterious statements, thus we have the "mystery of God" and the "mystery of Godliness" in Scripture.
Here is another attack on the deity of Christ within the modern versions (based on the critical Greek texts rather than on the Traditional Text). We look at 1 Timothy 3:16 and see this:
CRITICAL TEXT
Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
MODERN TRANSLATION
English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
TRADITIONAL TEXT
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.
REFORMATION TRANSLATION
King James Bible
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Dean John William Burgon had to write a dissertation on this verse in The Revision Revised, since the true reading was THEOS (God) not OS (he or who). Is this of doctrinal significance? Absolutely. "He" can even mean Michael the archangel, and many falsely teach that Jesus is Michael the archangel or simply "a god".
Why do you call this an "attack"? Attack is something different than the textual criticism.
When you look at both words: Ὃς and Θεὸς, its only a difference of two letters. If it is shortened, its only one letter difference. Its quite easy to see how a copyist can make a mistake.
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Also, if you think that new version just wants to attack the deity of Christ, why they have this?
Critical text:
Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο.
Traditional text:
θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός, ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο
"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
(John 1:18 NIV)
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
(John 1:18 KJV)
Should I conclud that the KJV attacks the deity of Christ because of it? Its absurd.
When you look at both words: Ὃς and Θεὸς, its only a difference of two letters. If it is shortened, its only one letter difference. Its quite easy to see how a copyist can make a mistake.
----
Also, if you think that new version just wants to attack the deity of Christ, why they have this?
Critical text:
Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο.
Traditional text:
θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός, ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο
"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
(John 1:18 NIV)
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
(John 1:18 KJV)
Should I conclud that the KJV attacks the deity of Christ because of it? Its absurd.
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Why do you still repeat this lie? I have given you these verses so many times, you just ignore me and after a while you return repeating that it was Romans who came with this idea.
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"Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)
"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)
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"Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)
"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)
I call it an "attack" for the simple reason that even after the truth was presented from the MAJORITY of texts, the critics refused to retract their corrupt texts and their false translations. Why?
If GOD (THEOS) was manifest in the flesh and that is what the majority of manuscripts show, why continue to promote the corruption unless you wish to attack the deity of Christ? Modernism (theological liberalism) rejected the deity of Christ and this change in the text supported their rejection (since there are only a few Scriptures which plainly say that Jesus is God). The apostate "Jesus Seminar" has been attacking the deity of Christ for a very long time.
Robert Funk, one of these apostates said this: We should give Jesus a demotion. It is no longer credible to think of Jesus as divine. Jesus’ divinity goes together with the old theistic way of thinking about God.
Unmasking the Jesus Seminar - Mark D. Roberts
If GOD (THEOS) was manifest in the flesh and that is what the majority of manuscripts show, why continue to promote the corruption unless you wish to attack the deity of Christ? Modernism (theological liberalism) rejected the deity of Christ and this change in the text supported their rejection (since there are only a few Scriptures which plainly say that Jesus is God). The apostate "Jesus Seminar" has been attacking the deity of Christ for a very long time.
Robert Funk, one of these apostates said this: We should give Jesus a demotion. It is no longer credible to think of Jesus as divine. Jesus’ divinity goes together with the old theistic way of thinking about God.
Unmasking the Jesus Seminar - Mark D. Roberts
