Can we be saved in all three tenses ? Past, present, and future.

JosephsDreams · Feb 25, 2016

I heard a pastor on the radio say we were saved, past tense, because we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
That we are continuing to be saved in the present tense, because as we come closer to God, we get further away from sin, and that is a work in progress.
That we will be saved in salvation's final state, because we will be free from all sin when we die and go to be with the Lord.

I don't know. The present tense, to me, seems more like the process of salvation morphing into sanctification, not a ongoing process of improving our status in salvation.

And salvation in heaven, when we die? Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible we won't even remember our past lives? If that is the case, then how can the defined word even apply in that state?

Here is the definiton:

sal-va-tion
salˈvāSH(ə)n/
nounTHEOLOGY

deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]redemption, deliverance, reclamation"salvation by way of repentance"

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
  "they try to sell it to us as economic salvation"
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]lifeline, preservation; More
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
- a source or means of being saved from harm, ruin, or loss.
  noun: one's salvation; plural noun: one's salvations
  "his only salvation was to outfly the enemy"

valiant · Feb 25, 2016

JosephsDreams said:

I heard a pastor on the radio say we were saved, past tense, because we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
That we are continuing to be saved in the present tense, because as we come closer to God, we get further away from sin, and that is a work in progress.
That we will be saved in salvation's final state, because we will be free from all sin when we die and go to be with the Lord.

I don't know. The present tense, to me, seems more like the process of salvation morphing into sanctification, not a ongoing process of improving our status in salvation.

And salvation in heaven, when we die? Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible we won't even remember our past lives? If that is the case, then how can the defined word even apply in that state?

Here is the definiton:

sal-va-tion
salˈvāSH(ə)n/
nounTHEOLOGY

deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]redemption, deliverance, reclamation"salvation by way of repentance"[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
  "they try to sell it to us as economic salvation"
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]lifeline, preservation; More
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
- a source or means of being saved from harm, ruin, or loss.
  noun: one's salvation; plural noun: one's salvations
  "his only salvation was to outfly the enemy"

LOL I can see why you are called Joseph;s Dreams
y.
The past of our salvation determine our eternal destiny (Titus 3.5)

The present deals with the sin in our lives (1Cor 1.18)

The future IS our eternal destiny (1 Peter 1,5)

Dictionaries don't deal with Christian doctrine. They give us the view of men,

Angela53510 · Feb 25, 2016

Justification - Past salvation Romans 5:1

Sanctification - present salvation Romans 6:22, 2 Thess. 2:13

Glorification - future salvation - when Jesus returns or we see him face to face. 1 John 3:2, 1 Cor. 13:12, Romans 8:17, 30

The Holy Spirit is the one who leads us in all three phases. It is not something we do ourselves. We know this because of the tense of the verbs in Greek.

JosephsDreams · Feb 25, 2016

Thanks ya'll for clearing this up for me.

Skinski7 · Feb 25, 2016

JosephsDreams said:

If you have not been set free from serving sin in the present then you are not saved.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The Bible is very clear on these things.

Jesus saves us FROM sin, not IN sin. There is a big difference.

Modern Christianity, for the most part, is utterly apostate teaching a "saved in sins" message where the grace of God has been twisted into a cloak of ongoing wickedness. Thus people are deceived into believing that they are justified whilst still serving sin and that the sin service stops at their death because "sinning" is attached to the "flesh body" like the ancient Gnostics taught.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 25, 2016

We're really not fully saved until we receive incorruptible bodies.

Skinski7 · Feb 25, 2016

Real salvation embodies purity of heart wrought through repentance (cessation of rebellion) and faith (yielding wholeheartedly to God) whereby God then regenerates our Spirit with His power unto newness of life whereby we walk in purity, holiness, and truth in victory over the world and the lusts of the flesh through having the love of God supernaturally shed abroad in our hearts.

That is why there is no ongoing service of wickedness in the Christian walk. Serving wickedness is the antithesis to abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. We cannot serve two masters. Our minds eye must be single lest we have a light in us that is actually darkness and thus be self deceived.

Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Skinski7 · Feb 25, 2016

We are yet to be saved from our corruptible bodies (subject to physical death). That is the salvation that pertains to the future. We ought be saved FROM sin now. With pure hearts wrought through obedience to the truth we continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ and thus increase is wisdom and understanding.

The apostate church teaches that people "sin less" thus teaching that the "working of iniquity" never actually ceases this side of the grave. Don't be deceived.

Those who sin are of the devil. The children of God are MANIFEST in that they do not sin (willful sin/rebellion to God/purposeful unrighteousness).

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

JosephsDreams · Feb 25, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

I really like that chart/graph. That surely clarifies it for me. Thanks !

FreeNChrist · Feb 25, 2016

JosephsDreams said:

Scripturally, the word salvation means “deliverance” and includes three tenses: we were saved (justification, salvation from the penalty of sin); we are being saved (sanctification, salvation from the power of sin); and we will be saved (glorification, salvation from the presence of sin).

It does not mean that there are steps to salvation or that we do not presently have salvation in Christ, but that we are continually being saved by our Savior.

PennEd · Feb 25, 2016

JosephsDreams said:

I heard a pastor on the radio say we were saved, past tense, because we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
That we are continuing to be saved in the present tense, because as we come closer to God, we get further away from sin, and that is a work in progress.
That we will be saved in salvation's final state, because we will be free from all sin when we die and go to be with the Lord.

I don't know. The present tense, to me, seems more like the process of salvation morphing into sanctification, not a ongoing process of improving our status in salvation.

And salvation in heaven, when we die? Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible we won't even remember our past lives? If that is the case, then how can the defined word even apply in that state?

Here is the definiton:

sal-va-tion
salˈvāSH(ə)n/
nounTHEOLOGY

deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:
[/TD]
[TD]redemption, deliverance, reclamation"salvation by way of repentance"

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
  "they try to sell it to us as economic salvation"
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:
  [/TD]
  [TD]lifeline, preservation; More
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
- a source or means of being saved from harm, ruin, or loss.
  noun: one's salvation; plural noun: one's salvations
  "his only salvation was to outfly the enemy"

I've heard it called the 3 Ps of salvation.

We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin.

We are being saved from the POWER of sin.

We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin.

valiant · Feb 25, 2016

Skinski7 said:

If you have not been set free from serving sin in the present then you are not saved.

Do you know anyone who is free from sin in the present? If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves.

In our new man we are saved from sin. But there is still the old man who rears his ugly head.

This is very true and must be the attitude of the saved, but it is never fully realised as Romans 7 tells us,

I'm sorry, You haven't studied romans 1-4. The Bible says Jesus justifies the ungodly whose faith is counted as righteousness(Romans 4.7). We are justified before Romans 6. 'Being justified without a cost by His grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood.' THAT is how we are saved

You are trying to save yourself.

Some may have twisted it. But it is ALL OF GRACE. we contribute not a jot to our justification. We ARE saved in sins. We are TEN saved from sin which is a gradual process through our lives, but HE saves us, we do not save ourselves.

valiant · Feb 25, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

The Bible says 'we have been saved' (Tit 3.5). Thus in a real sense we are fully saved . Our final salvation is guaranteed

But our final salvation from sin awaits our death or resurrection which removes sin for ever.

Skinski7 · Feb 25, 2016

JosephsDreams said:

The chart is erroneous.

Under Justification is says POSITIONAL.

The Bible clearly teaches that God reckons FAITH AS RIGHTEOUSNESS (Rom 4:5) and describes faith as upholding righteousness (Rom 3:31), having a walk (Rom 4:12), obeying (Heb 11:8).

This is why Paul connects the "faith reckoned as righteousness" (Rom 4:5) with the words of David (Rom 4:6-8) where David said...

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
...
Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.

You see justification is the undeserving pardon we are given for PAST SIN on the condition that we are upright in heart in the present (ie. real faith).

Faith purifies the heart (Act 15:9) and works by love (Gal 5:6) and is thus representative of a present manifest state of wholeheartedly yielding to God, ie. something impossible without a real repentance where the rebellion to God stopped once and for all.

That is the FAITH that God reckons for righteousness apart from works. It is the active dynamic of wholeheartedly yielding to and trusting in God. Wherever He leads we follow.

The apostate church has perverted that teaching by replacing it with a POSITIONAL righteousness which is PURELY FORENSIC OR ABSTRACT. Thus it has nothing to do with the purity of heart manifest in true faith. That way they can deceive people into merely "trusting in Jesus" after "confessing their sinfulness." NOTHING ACTUALLY HAPPENS FOR THE INIQUITY IN THE HEART REMAINS. That is why they teach Sanctification as NOT PERFECT IN THIS LIFE (see the chart).

The apostate system preaches a message of SAVED IN SIN and not SAVED FROM SIN. Salvation has been redefined to a mere a judicial declaration of righteousness despite the ongoing existence of evil in the heart. The iniquity was NEVER purged in repentance and the false theology is thus a representation of "ye can sin and not surely die."

This deception is rooted in the false teachings of Original Sin and the Substitution interpretation of the death of Christ. Teachings which infiltrated church orthodoxy well after the deaths of the apostles. Original Sin infiltrated via Augustine of Hippo in the Fourth Century and Substitution infiltrated via Anselm of Cantebury in the 11th Century, thus we have Satisfaction, Moral Government and Penal Substitution. All false teachings.

[video=youtube;KVQ1t5i058Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVQ1t5i058Q[/video]

Skinski7 · Feb 25, 2016

Here is a pertinent study on what real repentance is. This woke me up several years ago and thus I deemed it worthwhile to turn it into a video.

[video=youtube;sBLSkIrxtOk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBLSkIrxtOk[/video]

JosephsDreams · Feb 25, 2016

Skinski7, that guy in ashes and sackcloth scared me for a second.
Then I said to myself, what, a mechanic? He couldn't clean his face before he recorded this?
Good video.

JosephsDreams · Feb 25, 2016

I will watch the videos.

Skinski7 · Feb 25, 2016

valiant said:

Skinski7 said:

If you have not been set free from serving sin in the present then you are not saved.

You are just arguing in favour of being able to sin and not surely die. Your excuse is that you just cannot help it.

You use 1Joh 1:8 as support of your view by ripping it out of context.

1Joh 1:8 is about coming clean with God in initial repentance. In other words we cannot claim to have no sin to our account, we come clean and confess our rebellion and IF we WALK IN THE LIGHT as He is in the light then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of all sin.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

A parallel to 1Joh 1:6-10 is Hebrew 10:19-22 where it says...

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

We draw near to God with a TRUE HEART (ie. we don't say we have no sin, we come clean) and our hearts are subsequently sprinkled of an evil conscience and we are washed, cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ.

This is why John writes the following...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

People like you ignore the plain words of John.

John emphatically states that whomsoever abides in Jesus Christ does not sin. In fact he also says that the children of God are MANIFEST in that they do not sin.

It is the children of the devil who sin, not the children of God. Yet here you are pulling 1Joh 1:8 out of context in order to promote a view that Christian's do in fact sin. You obviously do not believe the plain teachings of the Bible but believe false teachings which treat the Bible like a menu picking select portions out of context in order to construct a lie.

JosephsDreams · Feb 25, 2016

Is that your voice? Is your name Chris? Our accents may be different, and the rhythm of your speech pattern is not like mine, but your actual voice sounds a lot like mine.

Skinski7 · Feb 25, 2016

JosephsDreams said:

I am glad you will watch the videos. Be like a Berean and examine these things and see if they be true. Dig deep and study to show thyself approved. It is the truth that matters, not our opinions, we must yield our opinions to the truth not twist truth to suit our opinions.

God bless you.

That man ought scare all those who are still walking according to the lusts of the flesh having refused to crucify their old man in repentance. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

That man beset himself in sackcloth and ashes to warn people of the false message being preached almost universally. There is a famine in the world for truth today. Jesus did warn that FEW would be saved and that MANY would be deceived. Believe it for that is exactly what is going on.

[video=youtube;9eL57nAm9Lo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eL57nAm9Lo[/video]

Can we be saved in all three tenses ? Past, present, and future.

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

FreeNChrist

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned