Can we get rid of the term free will for unbelievers?

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thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#1
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#1
I constantly hear this idea of free will, and it is completely false - A Christian has free will - i will talk about it in a moment


Romans 3:11 : If no one seeks after God - what do we seek... Sin

Ecc 7:20 : If no one is good, then what do bad do.... choose sin

Jeremiah 17:9 : The heart is desperately wicked - what is wicked - choosing sin

John 8: 34 : a slave to something has to do what- ... obey it's master - sin

Without Christ, outside of Christ, we are unable to do anything but sin, how is that free will? I am a slave of sin, I obey when it calls, I have no freedom, but slavery under sin

A Christian is no longer a slave of sin, he is not a slave but he is free, dead to sin, alive to Christ (Romans 6:6)
It's for freedom Christ has set us free.

Implications

1) It's completely your fault and my fault when we sin - we freely choose it


2) What compassion we should cultivate for someone who, like us at one point, is a slave to sin, that Sin is all they know, that is all they will know in this life apart from Jesus Christ?

3) We need to stop telling the unsaved, that they have freewill, because they do not. That they can choose Jesus Christ, because they cannot choose out of their slavery, unless Jesus Christ draws them and gives them that faith
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#2
#2
Well...

Though mankind is born a slave to sin, is because we accepted that way of life in the flesh.

But since there is the word of God and its truth. Choosing to let Christ reign inside you is a choice. What's this mean? Jesus is at the door knocking (Revelation 3:20) on every man's heart to be free from sin. It's our free will now to accept it. Jesus comes to us, but it's our acceptance to follow that counts. Jesus doesn't force Himself into your heart.

Your either a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness. (Romans 6:16-18)

This is my view on free will.
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#3
#3
The more I study this topic, the more I am convinced I am a fool.
God bless you guys. I will still keep an eye on these types of threads, so that hopefully I will one day gain a confident Biblical view of the will.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#4
#4
God bless you Ukorin, subjects like this can get very detailed and even confuse the teacher on both sides! Lol.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#5
#5
How will I credit myself with my own salvation if I don't have free will when I'm enslaved to sin?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#6
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#6
Bryancampbell said:
Well...

Though mankind is born a slave to sin, is because we accepted that way of life in the flesh.

But since there is the word of God and its truth. Choosing to let Christ reign inside you is a choice. What's this mean? Jesus is at the door knocking (Revelation 3:20) on every man's heart to be free from sin. It's our free will now to accept it. Jesus comes to us, but it's our acceptance to follow that counts. Jesus doesn't force Himself into your heart.

Your either a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness. (Romans 6:16-18)

This is my view on free will.
Click to expand...
Do you think the natural man can 'see' that God has a Son and that someone can just bodily rise from the dead after three days without God first ministering/working on their blind heart?
I dont think ''raw'' free will can perceive and believe in their heart these types of things.
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#7
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#7
Bryancampbell; [B said:
Though mankind is born a slave to sin, is because we accepted that way of life in the flesh. [/B]
Click to expand...
If your born a slave to sin, how can we accept the way of the flesh? Is that not the born nature? When you talk to an unbeliever, the majority do anything but admit to sin in their life, so how can we accept it in the the "natural" man who knows nothing of the spirit - for he cannot understand it.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#8
#8
Brother crossnote,

No man can find God and His salvation on his own. But there is an amount of freedom of choosing to want to follow.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#9
#9
thecreationtutor said:
If your born a slave to sin, how can we accept the way of the flesh? Is that not the born nature? When you talk to an unbeliever, the majority do anything but admit to sin in their life, so how can we accept it in the the "natural" man who knows nothing of the spirit - for he cannot understand it.
Click to expand...
Well friend, as a former unbeliever I can tell you God did give me people in my life and the things in life that pointed to His Son and the word of God. But in every way I tried to avoid it. I can say I accepted the Lord and gave up the battle against Him
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#10
#10
willy.PNG

This is my thought exactly after the first movie
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#11
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#11
Bryancampbell said:
Brother crossnote,

No man can find God and His salvation on his own. But there is an amount of freedom of choosing to want to follow.
Click to expand...
Hmm should I believe Bryan or Romans 3?
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#12
#12
Brother, I think you should "choose" what God thinks ;-)
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#13
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#13
Bryancampbell said:
Well...



But since there is the word of God and its truth. Choosing to let Christ reign inside you is a choice. What's this mean? Jesus is at the door knocking (Revelation 3:20) on every man's heart to be free from sin. It's our free will now to accept it. Jesus comes to us, but it's our acceptance to follow that counts. Jesus doesn't force Himself into your heart.
Click to expand...
Revelations 3:20 is talking to believers not unbeleivers
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#15
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#15
We are all born with free will sinner or saved alike. without free will we would be puppets. I have often told God I wish he could just take my free will so he could just use me as his puppet but he refuses to. He says he cherishes someone who willing loves and follows him more than someone who follows him because they had no choice due to lack of free will
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#16
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#16
Blain said:
We are all born with free will sinner or saved alike. without free will we would be puppets. I have often told God I wish he could just take my free will so he could just use me as his puppet but he refuses to. He says he cherishes someone who willing loves and follows him more than someone who follows him because they had no choice due to lack of free will
Click to expand...
But your born a puppet to sin - that's not free will, did you read the OP?

But there is no one who seeks after God - you did not read the OP
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#18
Sep 4, 2013
30,231
6,560
113
#18
We can get rid of any "terms" y'all wish for unbelievers..............shoot, we can rewrite Scripture completely! :)

Hey, here are a couple that we can DELETE......

Joshua 24:14) Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 15 .) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD

and let's be sure to get rid of.......

John 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 .) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 .) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 .) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


I mean. common.............these HAVE GOTTA GO!

(so very many more Scriptures to delete so that we don't have to bother the unbelievers with that pesky "free will" thingy, wow, we better get to work! :) )
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#19
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
35
0
#19
p_rehbein said:
We can get rid of any "terms" y'all wish for unbelievers..............shoot, we can rewrite Scripture completely! :)

Hey, here are a couple that we can DELETE......

Joshua 24:14) Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 15 .) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD

and let's be sure to get rid of.......

John 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 .) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 .) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 .) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


I mean. common.............these HAVE GOTTA GO!

(so very many more Scriptures to delete so that we don't have to bother the unbelievers with that pesky "free will" thingy, wow, we better get to work! :) )
Click to expand...

Where does it use the term "free will" in Scripture? we are not deleting it, your argument is not valid at all
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#20
#20
p_rehbein said:
We can get rid of any "terms" y'all wish for unbelievers..............shoot, we can rewrite Scripture completely! :)

Hey, here are a couple that we can DELETE......

Joshua 24:14) Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 15 .) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD

and let's be sure to get rid of.......

John 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 .) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 .) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 .) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


I mean. common.............these HAVE GOTTA GO!

(so very many more Scriptures to delete so that we don't have to bother the unbelievers with that pesky "free will" thingy, wow, we better get to work! :) )
Click to expand...
The only people I've known to delete are free willys... they avoid Ephesians 1's use of the word "predestination" like it's the plague.

Regarding verses that admonish someone to choose, no one here that I recall has said humans make no choices whatsoever. We're just saying if you stick to scripture, you can't concoct the notion of "free will" which is a secular philosophy.
 
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