Capital punishment for or against ?

[chatter23]

I know man is possessed and it is the demon in man that commits the murder. I do not believe in execution, it is not too late for God to save him.

 

[ChristianUk13]

It really is pointless making posts in relation to this subject, I earlier showed how murder could be challenged. It shows there is no knowledge of modern day laws especially what are associated with constitutional rights; this means the individual cannot be convicted of particular offences without also having the accompanying evidence of such offences. It appears that several here also have no concept of the right to defence but more importantly where a defence is likely to be more important or ought to eventuate. There is clearly a lacking in education generally from the respondents but notwithstanding this even where attempts were made by self to reason, others here just either ignored what was said or are sooo religious that he or she could not take on board what was said. This is what religiosity is, there is no hope of learning even though things have massively changed from those ancient biblical days.

 

[chatter23]

"Yeah, I believe murderers should be executed by the state (on the testimony of 2 or more witnesses, with false witnesses subject to the same punishment as the convicted)."

Well, what is murder as defining it will better equip understanding of its nature and perhaps our general approach to the subject. Well, the act of homicide means the taking of a human life. However this is just the act, or the actus reus in legal terms. For murder as well as the accompanying homicidal act there also needs to be an actual intent to commit said act, or in the Latin, Mens Rea. The problem is the grey areas; what may be arguably murder to one person could be different to another. Murder is the state's definition, ie it's the prosecution's job to prove murder whereas the defendent's attorney's job is to prove it is either not murder or other lesser offence albeit still serious. What about self defence? A scenario which asks us to consider this may be a family member encounters a burglary and to protect his family he shoots an intruder. Is this still murder? At what point would it be murder or alternatively what point would it change to said lesser offence albeit serious such as manslaughter or other? The likelihood is what the state regards initially as murder will be reduced to the lesser alternative in many cases, why because it would not be justiable if the law were just black and white without any grey areas, ie things which make it too complex to categorise an offence as murder and the consequence of depriving life, ie prison for the other.

"Unfortunately, whilst the communists and other assorted villains were taking over the world, they didn't like the idea of their agents being apprehended, tried and shot, so they generally outlawed capital punishment wherever possible. The result is that communism, and villainy in general, is now a much safer and more profitable career choice. (I don't believe the church should stone anyone, though)."

The subject matter here is communism although the law is still operational under communist or capitalist societies. Capitalism and law will have relatively more laws, ie rules which govern its societies. In simple terms communism means a society that shares everything. In contrast, capitalism means the right to own goods coupled with the right to earn as much money as possible without the state intervening. It is generally in the interest of Western countries to make communism a deviant ideology. How we view the church and or the bible is nevertheless relative to the society which we live, ie the communist or capitalist societies. In Acts, the Holy Spirit, it could be said, was saying Christians should share so that each has enough. On the other hand, the rules of capitalism are more obvious for Christians in practise, why because this is what we practise on a daily basis. For instace, we go to work and each is paid according to his responsibilities or qualifications. These are just two basic strands for either side.

Anyone who commits murder is a murderer and those who believe in executing a murderer is also a murderer in his heart.
Revenge is mine saith the Lord.

 

[Isdaniel]

I know man is possessed and it is the demon in man that commits the murder. I do not believe in execution, it is not too late for God to save him.

Genesis 9
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

 

[TheAristocat]

Yeah, I believe murderers should be executed by the state (on the testimony of 2 or more witnesses, with false witnesses subject to the same punishment as the convicted).

Way to go. A+

 

[Elizabeth619]

It really is pointless making posts in relation to this subject, I earlier showed how murder could be challenged. It shows there is no knowledge of modern day laws especially what are associated with constitutional rights; this means the individual cannot be convicted of particular offences without also having the accompanying evidence of such offences. It appears that several here also have no concept of the right to defence but more importantly where a defence is likely to be more important or ought to eventuate. There is clearly a lacking in education generally from the respondents but notwithstanding this even where attempts were made by self to reason, others here just either ignored what was said or are sooo religious that he or she could not take on board what was said. This is what religiosity is, there is no hope of learning even though things have massively changed from those ancient biblical days.

I know you like to flaunt your "legal knowledge", but it seems you don't even understand the OP. There is a difference in murder and self defense. The OP is referring to MURDERERS. Not one's who kill in self defense. The bible even allows self defense.
Also, the Word of God still stands after all these years. You may disagree with it, but we cannot change the bible. We are to live by the word as it was written years ago. IF you have a problem with people being "soooo religious" then why are you in a bible forum? You may not realize this, but religion and the bible is discussed in places like this.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Anyone who commits murder is a murderer and those who believe in executing a murderer is also a murderer in his heart.
Revenge is mine saith the Lord.

The bible says to sumbit to governing authoritys and they do not bear the sword in vain. IF someone commits a crime where death is the punishment then they most likely knew that before they committed the crime. It isn't like capitol punishment is a surprise punishment. Many states do have the death penalty. Capitol punishment is a consequence of breaking the law. When one commits this crime they signed their own death warrant.

 

[Isdaniel]

It really is pointless making posts in relation to this subject, I earlier showed how murder could be challenged. It shows there is no knowledge of modern day laws especially what are associated with constitutional rights; this means the individual cannot be convicted of particular offences without also having the accompanying evidence of such offences. It appears that several here also have no concept of the right to defence but more importantly where a defence is likely to be more important or ought to eventuate. There is clearly a lacking in education generally from the respondents but notwithstanding this even where attempts were made by self to reason, others here just either ignored what was said or are sooo religious that he or she could not take on board what was said. This is what religiosity is, there is no hope of learning even though things have massively changed from those ancient biblical days.

Reasons why murders have to be excecuted


[h=3]2 Samuel 21[/h]King James Version (KJV)

21 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the Lord. And the Lord answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites.
2 And the king called the Gibeonites, and said unto them; (now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; and the children of Israel had sworn unto them: and Saul sought to slay them in his zeal to the children of Israel and Judah.)
3 Wherefore David said unto the Gibeonites, What shall I do for you? and wherewith shall I make the atonement, that ye may bless the inheritance of the Lord?
4 And the Gibeonites said unto him, We will have no silver nor gold of Saul, nor of his house; neither for us shalt thou kill any man in Israel. And he said, What ye shall say, that will I do for you.
5 And they answered the king, The man that consumed us, and that devised against us that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the coasts of Israel,
6 Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord in Gibeah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose. And the king said, I will give them.


13 And he brought up from thence the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son; and they gathered the bones of them that were hanged.
14 And the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son buried they in the country of Benjamin in Zelah, in the sepulchre of Kish his father: and they performed all that the king commanded. And after that God was intreated for the land.

 

[Drett]

Whoever sheds man’s blood,
his blood will be shed by man,
for God made man
in His image. – Genesis 9:6

Seems to be clear in the bible .....

 

[Kerry]

Of course capital punishment is biblical. God did it Himself. Look at the sons of Reuben. It says that they were wicked and GOD KILLED HIM. Any questions?

 

[PoxEclipse]

CAPITOL punishment?

Seriously though...

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“For this reason the kingdom of heaven [SUP][v][/SUP]may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. [SUP]24 [/SUP]When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him [SUP][w][/SUP]ten thousand talents was brought to him. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But since he [SUP][x][/SUP]did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ [SUP]27 [/SUP]And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the [SUP][y][/SUP]debt. [SUP]28 [/SUP]But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred [SUP][z][/SUP]denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ [SUP]29 [/SUP]So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ [SUP]30 [/SUP]But he was unwilling [SUP][aa][/SUP]and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. [SUP]31 [/SUP]So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ [SUP]34 [/SUP]And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. [SUP]35 [/SUP]My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from [SUP][ab][/SUP]your heart.”


[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; [SUP]10 [/SUP]I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But [SUP][f][/SUP]actually, I wrote to you not to associate [SUP][g][/SUP]with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? [SUP]13 [/SUP]But those who are outside, God [SUP][h][/SUP]judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. [SUP]8 [/SUP][SUP][c][/SUP]On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. [SUP]13 [/SUP]I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.


A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

 

[Kerry]

Tell that to the man whose 10 year old daughter was raped and killed. Oh I love you so you can go free and by the way may God bless you. Yeah right.

 

[PoxEclipse]

CAPITOL punishment?

Tell that to the man whose 10 year old daughter was raped and killed. Oh I love you so you can go free and by the way may God bless you. Yeah right.

Are you talking to Paul or Christ?

The only thing I said was "Seriously though..."

"Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!"

 

[Sanashankar]

If God had wanted to rescue Paul from execution, there's not a man on Earth who would have been able to smite him.

No. I say murderers should be executed by the state because that is justice. It has nothing to do with hate. If I hated them, I would ask for them to be tortured or burned to death (if not indefinitely), or demand that they have no rights to speak to Christians prior to execution to obtain salvation.

Don't mistake justice for hatred. God doesn't hate men when He sends them to Hell. But He is a just God, and that is what we deserve, without Christ's saving blood.

One second of sin deserves trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of trillions of quadrillions of centuries of TORTURE AND TORMENT? If you really believe that the God of the Holy Scriptures is this insanely EVIL AND DEMENTED, then God have mercy on you.

 

[nw2u]

I am for capital punishment. I would add that I do believe that God knows the heart of the sinner. Remember the story of the "good" thief on the cross beside Jesus. He was to die in short order and was saved from the fires of hell. Society needs punishment for crimes. Sometimes, keeping them alive is just allowing them to sin more by killing or hurting others in prison. It's a double edged sword.

 

[Jullianna]

IF the evidentiary requirements of my country regarding the death penalty lined up with scriptural evidentiary requirements, yes. They don't, so, no.

Circumstantial evidence doesn't cut it scripturally. Labs and legal systems make mistakes. That leaves innocent blood on our hands. These are just a few of such cases:

8 People Who Were Executed and Later Found Innocent - NakedLaw by Avvo.com

 

[PoxEclipse]

Googolplex?

[video=youtube;0lFQOmb6mVs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lFQOmb6mVs[/video]

"One second of sin deserves trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of trillions of quadrillions of centuries..."

And that's a long time!

 

[danschance]

Re: Googolplex?

[video=youtube;0lFQOmb6mVs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lFQOmb6mVs[/video]

"One second of sin deserves trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of trillions of quadrillions of centuries..."

And that's a long time!

Yet another YouTube video that has nothing to do with anything.

P.S. Sagan has a creepy voice.

 

[PoxEclipse]

Someone needs some love!

[video=youtube;LDWJn3IwiaM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDWJn3IwiaM[/video]

"Yet another YouTube video that has nothing to do with anything."

 

[Isdaniel]

POVERBS 6
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.