Case for Faith - Strobel

[Locutus]

That letter was written to the Thessalonians, it's what is known as an occasional letter addressing their concerns - all Christians can learn from.

"Most New Testament epistles are “occasional” — meaning they were written for a specific occasion. The author is addressing a particular circumstance either on the readers’ side or the authors’ side."

Read up on this here:

Interpreting Epistles — Wednesday in the Word

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm not a fan of Lee Strobel due to his glib style of writing. In Case for Faith I was surprised to read that his expert on Hell did not believe that Hell was literally a place of fiery torment. Is this generally accepted to be true?

I am not a fan either, and if he denies a literal Hell, then his "Case for Faith" falls flat.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hell was cast into the lake of fire.

Good grief Locutus, you should know better. It was not Hell that was cast into Hell, but Hades which was cast into the Lake of Fire.

καὶ ὁ θάνατος καὶ ὁ ᾅδης ἐβλήθησαν εἰς τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρός οὗτος ἐστιν ὁ δεύτερός θάνατος

King James 2000 Bible
And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

So what does this really mean? Hades is personified here as well as in Rev 6:8. But Sheol/Hades was the abode of departed spirits, and after the Great White Throne Judgment, there will be no further need or use for Hades. Thus Hades is metaphorically cast into the Lake of Fire, but the unsaved inhabitants of Hades (who were judged at that time) are literally cast into the Lake of Fire. Thus endeth the existence of Hades.

 

[Locutus]

I know it's Hades - commonly called hell - take a chill pill.

 

[Nehemiah6]

"Most New Testament epistles are “occasional” — meaning they were written for a specific occasion. The author is addressing a particular circumstance either on the readers’ side or the authors’ side."

That may be so, but it certainly does not limit the scope or the application of the truths expressed. Indeed all of God's Word is valid for all time, in all ages and circumstances, and for all people worldwide (2 Timothy 3:16,17).

 

[Locutus]

That may be so, but it certainly does not limit the scope or the application of the truths expressed.

Of course it does, do you think this still applies - if so why are Christians marrying since Paul wrote this:

1 Cor 7:26 I think then that this is good in view of the present distress, that it is good for a man to remain as he is.

This is where a lot of people end up with weird interpretations by not considering context, audience relevance and so forth.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Of course it does, do you think this still applies - if so why are Christians marrying since Paul wrote this:

1 Cor 7:26 I think then that this is good in view of the present distress, that it is good for a man to remain as he is.

This is where a lot of people end up with weird interpretations by not considering context, audience relevance and so forth.

Well long before Paul wrote, the Lord already said that if some wished to remain eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom, that would be acceptable. But He also gave the caveat that celibacy, or the single state, was not for everyone. Indeed Paul in his other epistles encourages young widows to remarry, and clearly states that marriage is honorable in all. At the same time, if some wished to remain single to serve the Lord more effectively, that would be very desirable.

 

[kaylagrl]

I liked his books.

Me too,I have several of them and recommend them to people.I dont agree with everyone he speaks to in the books,but he makes good points in all his books.I really enjoyed the movie too.It was well done.

 

[loveme1]

I'm not a fan of Lee Strobel due to his glib style of writing. In Case for Faith I was surprised to read that his expert on Hell did not believe that Hell was literally a place of fiery torment. Is this generally accepted to be true?

How does one become an expert on such matters?




Luke 16

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.





I believe we should take heed of this.

 

[Flannery]

One of the arguments the Hell expert makes is that there can't be literal fire because Hell is in darkness. Well, we are talking about a supernatural place here. The standard rules need not apply.

 

[Flannery]

That may be so, but it certainly does not limit the scope or the application of the truths expressed. Indeed all of God's Word is valid for all time, in all ages and circumstances, and for all people worldwide (2 Timothy 3:16,17).

That was the point I was trying to make. My understanding is that the epistles are for all followers of Christ

 

[garee]

Not less than a few reject the reality of hell as literal, including eternal separation into the lake of fire to be punished for all eternity........

I will get a bag of popcorn and a coke to watch this thread.....eternal does not mean eternal when applied to hell or the lake of fire according to some.....

Kettle corn for those with the sweet tooth .

Eternal means eternal never to rise again to new spirit life for ever and ever more .

Rev 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Scripture equates hell as a "living tribulation" called either the "belly of the whale" or the "heart of the earth" both equals suffering in hell. It was not a dead work.The dead know nothing which would include the work of suffering.

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jonas is described suffering in the same kind of hell. that Christ suffered . His spirit was still part of the living .Dead is dead not reincarnation with a new spirit .

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.on 2:1

Both by reason of their living affliction called out to God and where delivered from the heart of the earth (hell).

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.Luk 22:42


Sweat indicates Christ was working pouring out His Spirit life as promised not seen, blood in that parable represents the Spirit of Christ suffering not dying. A dead body shows no spirit life is present ,,the source needed to rise again on the last day.

 

[Nehemiah6]

One of the arguments the Hell expert makes is that there can't be literal fire because Hell is in darkness. Well, we are talking about a supernatural place here. The standard rules need not apply.

Correct. And there is absolutely no contradiction between Hell being in outer darkness and yet having eternal fire burning within it. And it is supernatural in that it was originally created for the Devil and his angels. So this so-called "Hell-expert" should go back to novice status and start all over.

 

[Miri]

The worse thing about hell, hades what ever you want to call it.
There will be no God!
No light, no peace, nothing good, no love, complete separation from God
forever.

That makes it a place to avoid, whatever people want to call it.