Charismatic Chaos

[Ecclesiastik]

I'm feeling ya, bro. And have been asking myself the same questions. I am in agreement with you on McArthur. He made valid points, but also threw out the baby with the bath water.

Indeed. While I agree that the Holy Spirit operates as He determines best (and that's not always going to be the same to all nations at all times), I find no biblical evidence that certain miracles and signs can no longer occur and if they do they must be of Satan.

It seems like the equivalent of saying that because so many televangelists who do false healings through laying on of hands, it must be impossible for people to EVER be healed through laying hands on them. Or even better, because people so often misinterpret the Bible when left to their own devices--we should only allow the most highly regarded of ecclesiastics to interpret the Bible. Welcome to legalism and/or Roman Catholicism.

 

[Kerry]

Throw this in your theology. God delivered me from alcoholism. I am a living breathing example. Also my mother had a stoke and the doc said she would never walk again. She drove over to have Christmas. You are a liar.

 

[Ecclesiastik]

Wait. I'm a liar? :/

 

[Kerry]

Wait. I'm a liar? :/

Are you? If Gods not active in our lives today. Then yes you are.

 

[Ecclesiastik]

Are you? If Gods not active in our lives today. Then yes you are.

Are you even reading what I'm saying?

It seems like both camps are jumping in and exploding on me after reading a couple of words and presuming I don't believe what they do.

Once again...let's take a step back, take a breather, calmly re-examine what has been written on the thread, and try again.

 

[Kerry]

Are you even reading what I'm saying?

It seems like both camps are jumping in and exploding on me after reading a couple of words and presuming I don't believe what they do.

Once again...let's take a step back, take a breather, calmly re-examine what has been written on the thread, and try again.

Okay I miss read you. Forgive me brother.

 

[zone]

Ecclesiastik ,
you seem to recognize why the Charismatic Movement is bogus.
but you don't seem to like straight answers.
looking for a keep-the-(non-existent)-baby in the murky bathwater?

 

[Ecclesiastik]

Ecclesiastik ,
you seem to recognize why the Charismatic Movement is bogus.
but you don't seem to like straight answers.
looking for a keep-the-(non-existent)-baby in the murky bathwater?

I do like straightforward answers. I just don't like people exploding on me with straw-man arguments because of their denominational baggage. If it's a hard load to carry then drop it. I'm not forcing you to carry it.

I don't think every Charismatic church is garbage any more than I think every Reformed church is garbage. They both raise some very good points. But both seem to tend to get carried away very easily with one methodology or the other.

What do you think of the Holy Spirit, zone? Is there a particular moment in your life when you felt like you were baptized with it? Do you feel like you have any spiritual gifts?

 

[zone]

I do like straightforward answers. I just don't like people exploding on me with straw-man arguments because of their denominational baggage. If it's a hard load to carry then drop it. I'm not forcing you to carry it.

I don't think every Charismatic church is garbage any more than I think every Reformed church is garbage. They both raise some very good points. But both seem to tend to get carried away very easily with one methodology or the other.

What do you think of the Holy Spirit, zone? Is there a particular moment in your life when you felt like you were baptized with it? Do you feel like you have any spiritual gifts?

the Holy Spirit is God...not IT.

...

there are no more prophets.
no one is getting direct revelation from God re: new doctrine or messages for mankind.
speaking in tongues was a supernatural gift of speaking one or more previously unlearned known gentile languages.

i have the gift of the Spirit as the teacher of truth and guide through the Scriptures - He testifies of Jesus Christ.
i have the gift of the forgiveness of sins.
i have the gift of eternal life.
i have the gift of the love of God shed abroad in my heart whereby i cry: Papa! Father!

if you mean do i read minds or babble in gibberish - NO.

 

[Ecclesiastik]

So there can still be prophets? Just not ones that reveal new doctrine? If not, then what biblical evidence is there that this gift is gone?

What biblical evidence do you provide that tongues or signs have stopped?

In signs, is it included visions? For example, the visions that people claim to be having in the Middle East of Christ?

 

[zone]

So there can still be prophets? Just not ones that reveal new doctrine?

What biblical evidence do you provide that tongues or signs have stopped?

In signs, is it included visions? For example, the visions that people claim to be having in the Middle East of Christ?

Cessationism - Cessationist - Spiritual Gifts - The Ultimate Cessationism Resource - click

i already gave you my position on all that.

 

[Ecclesiastik]

Cessationism - Cessationist - Spiritual Gifts - The Ultimate Cessationism Resource - click

i already gave you my position on all that.

So I have to go through several hours worth of sermons, articles, and books in order to ascertain your position? Don't you know your own position?

 

[zone]

the Holy Spirit is God...not IT.

...

there are no more prophets.
no one is getting direct revelation from God re: new doctrine or messages for mankind.
speaking in tongues was a supernatural gift of speaking one or more previously unlearned known gentile languages.

i have the gift of the Spirit as the teacher of truth and guide through the Scriptures - He testifies of Jesus Christ.
i have the gift of the forgiveness of sins.
i have the gift of eternal life.
i have the gift of the love of God shed abroad in my heart whereby i cry: Papa! Father!

if you mean do i read minds or babble in gibberish - NO.

So I have to go through several hours worth of sermons, articles, and books in order to ascertain your position? Don't you know your own position?

not wasting time over Charismatic angst.

figure it out yourself.
you have lots of time to read Charisma Mag and watch vids.

if you dont want to understand the issue, dont blame me.
ta.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Are you even reading what I'm saying?

It seems like both camps are jumping in and exploding on me after reading a couple of words and presuming I don't believe what they do.

Once again...let's take a step back, take a breather, calmly re-examine what has been written on the thread, and try again.

It's an emotionally charged topic, and I agree with you that the comments really haven't peered beyond the surface of your OP.

 

[Ecclesiastik]

It's an emotionally charged topic, and I agree with you that the comments really haven't peered beyond the surface of your OP.

I suppose it is very emotionally charged.

Well the best answers I've gotten so far is that the Charismatic chaos is caused when folks don't center on the Bible and focus on emotions opposed to the word of God.

However, I have yet to receive a well explained answer from the Reformed camp concerning their views. I know that there are good Baptist and Reformed churches out there. I listen to sermons from Reformed ministers on a nearly daily basis. Hence, I would consider myself to be between the two camps.

 

[Brother_Don]

well if the miracles have ceased, then try telling that to my back, and my back will call that a lie.

 

[zone]

well if the miracles have ceased, then try telling that to my back, and my back will call that a lie.

1) nobody says miracles have ceased
2) God answers prayer

 

[Ecclesiastik]

1) nobody says miracles have ceased

Just some of them. But we'll have to look up which ones.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I suppose it is very emotionally charged.

Well the best answers I've gotten so far is that the Charismatic chaos is caused when folks don't center on the Bible and focus on emotions opposed to the word of God.

However, I have yet to receive a well explained answer from the Reformed camp concerning their views. I know that there are good Baptist and Reformed churches out there. I listen to sermons from Reformed ministers on a nearly daily basis. Hence, I would consider myself to be between the two camps.

Yep - Charismatic chaos is not Bible based but caused by men that call themselves "men of God" who stir up people's emotions - a service being run on emotional "charisma" - hyping people up into an emotional frenzy - totally off Biblical radar!

 

[zone]

Just some of them. But we'll have to look up which ones.

please find them. they would be fringe heretics like Thomas Jefferson.

list them here, and if there are any at CC: link to the posts here:

.....

thanks.
meanwhile....please stop misrepresenting cessationism.
go learn what it is.