Choosing a Denomination

[hornetguy]

It is funny that you would say what you said about denominations and man.....then turn around a boast about being a member of a Johnny Come lately denomination started by a man with many doctrines that are man made and no where near biblical.........Alexander Campbell ring a bell????

I would imagine that many folks that attend the CofC have no earthly idea who Thomas and Alexander Campbell are.
Aside from that... I'm curious as to what the doctrines of Alexander Campbell were that were nowhere near biblical...? Granted, I haven't studied his life much, because I don't really care "where he came from"... I understand they were Presbyterian, from Scotland? I know that they were contemporary with Barton W Stone, who basically agreed to disagree with them and founded the Christian church (they had instruments, CofC didn't).... what was his heresy?

 

[Angela53510]

I would imagine that many folks that attend the CofC have no earthly idea who Thomas and Alexander Campbell are.
Aside from that... I'm curious as to what the doctrines of Alexander Campbell were that were nowhere near biblical...? Granted, I haven't studied his life much, because I don't really care "where he came from"... I understand they were Presbyterian, from Scotland? I know that they were contemporary with Barton W Stone, who basically agreed to disagree with them and founded the Christian church (they had instruments, CofC didn't).... what was his heresy?

Several big heresies. One is they believe you are not saved until you are baptized. And baptized into their church. No one else is saved.

Another big heresy is "works" salvation. They believe you need to work to be saved, instead of trusting in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

We won't even get into their unbiblical stance on no instruments. It is not right, but I don't think it saves you one way or another. Mind you, they probably think if you use instruments in church, you aren't saved. But of course, if you aren't in their church, you are already not saved, so it doesn't matter what all the rest of the evangelical churches do, because they are apostate.

So a HUGE amount of legalism, and rules, and only their church being saved.

Oh, Campbell, was a Southern Baptist preacher who decided he didn't agree with basic SBC doctrine. So he started his own church, and then said it was descended from the apostles. Except he was the one who made up the church and its doctrine, so not so much. Here is a link, if you want the whole history.

https://arcapologetics.org/comparative-religion/the-stone-campbell-scott-movement/

 

[Angela53510]

Just pick one. But don't involve yourself in their extra-curricular doctrines that are outside God's Holy Writ. How will you recognize those extra-curricular doctrines of men? Get a firm foundation in study of ALL of God's Word, chapter by chapter, line upon line, asking God to give you understanding through His Son every time... you open His Word to study.

Get a good cross-reference study tool, like the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance that goes with the 1611 KJV Bible, and/or Brown-Driver-Briggs for the OT, and a Young's, etc. for the NT; an Englishman's Concordance, and The Treasury of Scripture cross-reference tool is very helpful. All of these are included in most Bible study software today. I use BibleSoft.

Be careful of all the more modern Bible translations. Though some here would disagree, the 1611 KJV is still the most accurate English translation, with the NT from the majority of NT texts that the early Church used.

Going to disagree here. The KJV is NOT the most accurate. It uses all the later Byzantine texts, which were embellished and improperly copied over the years. (They are a majority because the Greeks kept their language and continued to copy the copies of the copies - so it is best to go back to the earliest manuscripts, rather than rely on the so-called Majority texts, which are basically copies of copies - Wait, I already said that!.

There are so many words not translated corrected (yes, I read Greek!) OR, they were translated corrected 400 years ago in terms of the language then, but the word usage has changed, and the words are no longer accurate in our culture.

Add to that a bunch of archaic words, a grammar we do not use anymore (2nd person singular) and you have a bible that is very difficult to read.

If you are a young believer, you will find that Holman's (HCSB) and NASB are good. I prefer ESV, because it tries to be true to the Biblical tenses, which can affect doctrine. But it is a bit more stilted, as it tries to mirror word order, which trust me, cannot be done! We were just noting this yesterday in my Greek class.

As for Strong's, it is based on the KJV Bible, and it is very old. I used it in the past, but as I got better tools, I have totally stopped using it. Brown-Driver-Briggs is a fairly good Hebrew lexicon. Apparently Accordance is a good Bible software, although I personally do not use it, or any other software. I prefer to use my lexicon and other tools.

 

[Willie-T]

Well, let us do clarify that both Campbells were Presbyterian ministers who left that church, and AL, while kicking around, linked up with a Baptist church with the stipulation that he would be allowed to preach whatever he felt the Spirit led him to preach. After about 17 years, he left that one too.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Going to disagree here. The KJV is NOT the most accurate. It uses all the later Byzantine texts, which were embellished and improperly copied over the years. (They are a majority because the Greeks kept their language and continued to copy the copies of the copies - so it is best to go back to the earliest manuscripts, rather than rely on the so-called Majority texts, which are basically copies of copies - Wait, I already said that!.

There are so many words not translated corrected (yes, I read Greek!) OR, they were translated corrected 400 years ago in terms of the language then, but the word usage has changed, and the words are no longer accurate in our culture.

Add to that a bunch of archaic words, a grammar we do not use anymore (2nd person singular) and you have a bible that is very difficult to read.

No one has the original manuscripts. A manuscript is a copy of the original.
Back in the day, they used papyrus for the paper and while a very durable medium, it does disintegrate over time. There are 0 actual original manuscripts left on this earth. This is why older manuscripts are often kept in climate controlled environments. However, as a manuscript is used and deteriorates, people made copies. This by no means detracts from the authenticity and accuracy of the copy. The question though, based on the timeline test, is how far are you in terms of the number of copies, from the autographa or original copy? While in general, the closer you are to the autographa the more accurate you are, this is not always the case.

Sometimes, an "older" text when not used as much can experience less degradation. Perhaps it is not used as much due to a less than accurate representation of the text. This was most certainly the case with the Alexandrian manuscripts, the most notorious being the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. They were old indeed, but perhaps not used as much because number of errors and inconsistencies in these manuscripts was astounding. However it was used for Westcott and Hort text for example which carried over these errors. Thus we have newer bibles based on some of these texts. They are very good translations... but the question is... are they good translations of a questionable text?

We can't automatically assume that "older" is better or that because it has older language that it needs to be done away with. Perhaps we can examine the language for better understanding? I wouldn't automatically throw out the Byzantine texts in favor of the Majority. The Byzantine texts regardless do have an important role to play and are indeed accurate.

 

[vic1980]

Friendly people and great music does not always translate in teaching TRUTH.
It may satisify the flesh but leave the spirit lacking.
What is taught and practiced is what really counts.

This is a wise saying

 

[RissaBug]

To the OP:

I'm glad to hear you're doing your research to find a best fit for you. I hope your search helps you find one locally that is true to the gospel and has members who make you feel like part of the family. I'm afraid my church isn't what you're looking for, but I do have some input if you'll consider it.

I echo some of those here that have said denomination doesn't matter as long as the church preaches truth. In fact, I would say that there is so much variety within one denomination that you really can't count on a Methodist church in Jackson, Mississippi to teach the same doctrine as a Methodist church is Oxford, Mississippi, even if they're under the same council. Church culture often dictates the atmosphere and topics covered.

But I can tell you the reason I chose the denomination I did. I wasn't raised in it. I studied the scriptures on my own and found this one to match my interpretations, like what you're doing. My parents are still Baptist-ish. But I chose my church because they became family the moment I stepped in. They adopted me (somewhat literally, since I stayed here after I graduated college, away from all of my family). And because my church is big on serving. It's not just a come to church and learn. It's come to church, learn, and DO.

And I can understand why some people don't like the idea of denominations, but I've studied this concept as well as the history and governance of my denomination. Yes, we have a government. It's a sort of checks and balances in MANY ways but it does give a LOT of autonomy to church bodies, more so than the Methodist governance. I'm proud to be a part of a body of believers who are making a difference for the kingdom world-wide. Our governance helps churches train and send missionaries everywhere, a process I'll soon be going through myself.

But still, that's not to say there aren't a few churches that carry my denomination's name that really shouldn't. That's where the governance comes in, and it does catch up to them.

 

[hornetguy]

Several big heresies. One is they believe you are not saved until you are baptized. And baptized into their church. No one else is saved.

Another big heresy is "works" salvation. They believe you need to work to be saved, instead of trusting in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

We won't even get into their unbiblical stance on no instruments. It is not right, but I don't think it saves you one way or another. Mind you, they probably think if you use instruments in church, you aren't saved. But of course, if you aren't in their church, you are already not saved, so it doesn't matter what all the rest of the evangelical churches do, because they are apostate.

So a HUGE amount of legalism, and rules, and only their church being saved.

Oh, Campbell, was a Southern Baptist preacher who decided he didn't agree with basic SBC doctrine. So he started his own church, and then said it was descended from the apostles. Except he was the one who made up the church and its doctrine, so not so much. Here is a link, if you want the whole history.

https://arcapologetics.org/comparative-religion/the-stone-campbell-scott-movement/

Angela, not trying to be argumentative, but it sounds as if you are talking about what is known as the "Boston movement".... especially with the being baptized into their church, and the works for salvation doctrine. That cult of people that CALL themselves "Church of Christ" is no closer to the mainstream churches of Christ than the Westboro Baptists are to the mainstream southern Baptists. Night and day.
I know for a fact that mainstream CofC DEFINITELY doesn't believe you are baptized into their church... in fact, that's one of the bigger "disagreements" they have had with the Baptist church over the years. "You don't get baptized into a church, you get baptized into Christ and His body".... I've had that hammered into me all my life.
Works salvation is not taught, either... at least no more than any other denomination, or group of Christians. There are always some misguided folks that seem to think that the more they DO, the better "chance" they have for salvation. It's human nature to think we have to "earn" our way in. It's WRONG, but it's human.
There ARE a lot of CofC foks that believe you aren't saved until you are baptized... there are several scriptures that indicate that. There are also a lot of scriptures that say you are saved by faith. I believe that it is a combination of both.. your salvation is a free gift, no works required, but baptism is the normal and correct response to your acceptance of that free gift. I don't think it's an option. It's sort of like a baby being born... being brought forth from the womb is a free gift.. the baby doesn't have to "do" anything... but to continue enjoying the free gift, the baby has to breathe. It's the natural, correct, and necessary response to the free gift of birth. Baptism is similar to that.
If you AREN'T baptized, are you NOT saved? I'm glad I'm not the one to decide that. That's strictly up to our Father. Some scriptures seem to say that, which is why the CofC's say "it's necessary".

And their stance on instrumental music is certainly not "unbiblical". At worst, it is misguided, perhaps, in the sense that too much emphasis is placed on it, but it is absolutely biblically based. There are no scriptures that indicate the first century church used instruments in their house worship meetings. The closest you can find are OT scriptures referring to David playing the lyre, etc.. thing like that.
Well, I've gone on too long as it is... just wanted to clarify a few things...

 

[JesusLives]

Todd

Hi and so glad your heart is seeking a place to worship and fellowship with God. It is obvious that the Holy Spirit has been speaking to your heart and drawing you back to God so why not let the Holy Spirit lead you to the congregation you are seeking? I'd say pray about it and ask God to lead you where He would like you to worship and then visit different churches in your area. Pay close attention to those teaching the Bible and check them out to make sure they teach sound doctrines.

To me the most important thing is to understand Salvation and accepting Jesus as your Savior, building a relationship with Him and allowing the Holy Spirit to live in your life helping you become more and more like Jesus. The rest is gravy as a lot of the man made rules won't save you Jesus saves....

Prayers that you find what you are searching for and that you continue to build your relationship with Jesus.

 

[Willie-T]

Angela, not trying to be argumentative, but it sounds as if you are talking about what is known as the "Boston movement".... especially with the being baptized into their church, and the works for salvation doctrine. That cult of people that CALL themselves "Church of Christ" is no closer to the mainstream churches of Christ than the Westboro Baptists are to the mainstream southern Baptists. Night and day.
I know for a fact that mainstream CofC DEFINITELY doesn't believe you are baptized into their church... in fact, that's one of the bigger "disagreements" they have had with the Baptist church over the years. "You don't get baptized into a church, you get baptized into Christ and His body".... I've had that hammered into me all my life.
Works salvation is not taught, either... at least no more than any other denomination, or group of Christians. There are always some misguided folks that seem to think that the more they DO, the better "chance" they have for salvation. It's human nature to think we have to "earn" our way in. It's WRONG, but it's human.
There ARE a lot of CofC foks that believe you aren't saved until you are baptized... there are several scriptures that indicate that. There are also a lot of scriptures that say you are saved by faith. I believe that it is a combination of both.. your salvation is a free gift, no works required, but baptism is the normal and correct response to your acceptance of that free gift. I don't think it's an option. It's sort of like a baby being born... being brought forth from the womb is a free gift.. the baby doesn't have to "do" anything... but to continue enjoying the free gift, the baby has to breathe. It's the natural, correct, and necessary response to the free gift of birth. Baptism is similar to that.
If you AREN'T baptized, are you NOT saved? I'm glad I'm not the one to decide that. That's strictly up to our Father. Some scriptures seem to say that, which is why the CofC's say "it's necessary".

And their stance on instrumental music is certainly not "unbiblical". At worst, it is misguided, perhaps, in the sense that too much emphasis is placed on it, but it is absolutely biblically based. There are no scriptures that indicate the first century church used instruments in their house worship meetings. The closest you can find are OT scriptures referring to David playing the lyre, etc.. thing like that.
Well, I've gone on too long as it is... just wanted to clarify a few things...

I'd be willing to bet she wasn't talking about The Boston Movement. My wife and I know Kip, personally from way back at Crossroads, and Angela is nothing like him. I doubt she'd go along with that craziness.

 

[Willie-T]

Todd

Hi and so glad your heart is seeking a place to worship and fellowship with God. It is obvious that the Holy Spirit has been speaking to your heart and drawing you back to God so why not let the Holy Spirit lead you to the congregation you are seeking? I'd say pray about it and ask God to lead you where He would like you to worship and then visit different churches in your area. Pay close attention to those teaching the Bible and check them out to make sure they teach sound doctrines.

To me the most important thing is to understand Salvation and accepting Jesus as your Savior, building a relationship with Him and allowing the Holy Spirit to live in your life helping you become more and more like Jesus. The rest is gravy as a lot of the man made rules won't save you Jesus saves....

Prayers that you find what you are searching for and that you continue to build your relationship with Jesus.

Todd,
This is a woman well worth listening to. She is very much atuned to Christ's voice.

 

[didymos]

Found my denom in a box of cereal.

 

[Willie-T]

Found my denom in a box of cereal.

Somehow, I don't find that difficult to believe.

 

[Grace777x70]

*Cracker jacks*

Somehow, I don't find that difficult to believe.

 

[tourist]

Glad to have you join us Todd. It is good that you have made it a practice to read your bible. It is always good to soak in the Word of God. Welcome to CC.

 

[hornetguy]

Willie...that's why I thought that, from the things she said the CofC taught...sounded just like the Boston folks... definitely a cult. Mainstream CofC is very welcoming and open to differences in beliefs. That's one of the great attractions of the CofC... each one is fully autonomous. There not a controlling or governing body that puts out a "statement of beliefs" or creed that defines them all. Each church can be as squirrely as they want, or as Christlike as they can. This also makes it difficult, if not impossible to generalize about it.

Edit... I have no doubt Angela is nothing like that. She seems very levelheaded and Christ-centered to me, which is why I wanted to express my disagreement with her on this topic..

 

[Willie-T]

Willie...that's why I thought that, from the things she said the CofC taught...sounded just like the Boston folks... definitely a cult. Mainstream CofC is very welcoming and open to differences in beliefs. That's one of the great attractions of the CofC... each one is fully autonomous. There not a controlling or governing body that puts out a "statement of beliefs" or creed that defines them all. Each church can be as squirrely as they want, or as Christlike as they can. This also makes it difficult, if not impossible to generalize about it.

Edit... I have no doubt Angela is nothing like that. She seems very levelheaded and Christ-centered to me, which is why I wanted to express my disagreement with her on this topic..

Well, like me, she probably still remembers when the CoC was one of only two ilks. As legalistic as Catholics are today (in their own way) or REALLY legalistic ....... so much so that THOSE were called "antis" by the rest of the CoC's because they were against EVERYTHING........ and they called the more rational CoC's, "hog wild liberals."

 

[didymos]

Somehow, I don't find that difficult to believe.

Exactly my words when I found it.

 

[popeye]

Is the heart of heaven not Jesus Christ? John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that
whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

I would have to say a million yeses' to that

 

[Blain]

Denominations are a mess, there isn't any one denomination that has it all right and denominations don't unite the church they disperse it. I don't think I could choose a denomination even if I didn't care what it does to the body I have views and beliefs in many different denominations so I can't belong to just one.