Christmas

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. Acts 12:4 (KJV)

The Greek word is πάσχα, transliterated pascha, which KJV translated 28 out of 29 times as passover.

We know that Passover was about the death of the Jesus, so if there was a "new" holiday regarding the resurrection of Christ, why didn't they give it a new name that meant resurrection or something instead of reusing the name Passover that had just occurred within the week prior?

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

Christ was conceived Dec. 25 and was born Sept.29, it seems you know very little about the Word of God, God bless

Where is this scripture that informs us that a Christ was conceived on Dec. 25th? I have never heard that one before. Is it a scripture or just adding up some timelines?

 

[Inquistor]

Where is this scripture that informs us that a Christ was conceived on Dec. 25th? I have never heard that one before. Is it a scripture or just adding up some timelines?

I asked the same question in post 139, but I did not see any response to my question!

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

I asked the same question in post 139, but I did not see any response to my question!

Umm. I guess I didn't your question or I wouldn't have asked it again.

Well, I know we all get in a hurry sometimes and don't post the scripture book/chapter/verse or whatever the source of what we are commenting on.

But I am the type of person that I am not going to believe anything anyone says unless it is from the Bible and I see it and study it and the Holy Spirit has lead me to the truth. So I prefer people posting the scriptures references with their claims so I can go study it.

 

[joaniemarie]

Jesus is the reason for the season! Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

 

[celib]

And we find that amazing and astounding revelation above EXACTLY WHERE in scripture?

We have to start in Luke 1:5 where Zacharias was working of the course of Abia, when Elizabeth was six month pregnant Mary became pregnant, that brings us to 1st Tebeth or Dec.25, the fifteenth of Ethanim is the 29 of Sept. which was the first day of the feast of Tabernacles, that day is also the festival of Michael and all the angels, it is believed that the angel in Luke 2 was Michael and all the angels were also there. God bless

 

[Pilgrimer]

It is to celebrate the birth of Christ, but Chirst was born in the Spring time, Luke 2:8-21

The Shepherds would take the sheep out in the spring time and bring them back at the beginning of October, before the snow covered the greenary.

That's not historically accurate. Two different Talmudic tractates state that the flocks in the Judean hill country were driven north in the early summer at the beginning of the dry season when there was no rain for months and the grasses and water holes would all dry up. Then in the fall, after the New Year, when the fall or "first" rains came in October and November, the shepherds would drive the flocks back to the Judean hills which were once more green with grasses and the water holes were replenished. The flocks then spent the winter and spring in the hills of Judea where there was ample grazing and water. Then, in early summer when the dry season began, the flocks would once more be driven north. We see evidence of this even in the time of Joseph. Remember when he sought his brothers to deliver a message from their father he found them near Dothan, up in the hills of Samaria north of Judea where they had driven Jacob's flocks of sheep in the summer to find grass and water.

So in reality, the sheep would have been "in the fields" from the fall till early summer.

And as for sheep being "in the fields" in December, the average night-time low temperature in Bethlehem on Christmas Eve is 42 degrees F, mild by any standard and certainly not cold enough to prevent wooly sheep from being outdoors.

But also there is the fact that the sheep and shepherds in the fields near Bethlehem were no ordinary flocks anyway. This is where the "Temple flocks" were kept, thousands of sheep and cattle that were required to supply the sacrificial needs of the Temple in Jerusalem, 5 miles north. Levitical purity laws did not allow flocks and herds to be kept near the Holy City (if you've ever been near a stockyard you can appreciate why) so the flocks and herds were kept in the fields at Bethlehem and driven the 5 miles to Jerusalem as needed. And understand, we are talking about literally thousands and tens of thousands of animals. Indeed, sacrificial animals was the #1 import commodity for 1st century Israel and Josephus states that at Passover as many as a quarter million lambs were sacrificed. Even allowing for hyperbole, the number of animals needed would have been prodigious, and the Temple carried on a thriving and profitable trade in sacrificial animals (remember Jesus driving the sellers out of the Temple).

Another bit of history is that there was also a Rabbinic ban against socializing with shepherds, like with tax collectors, tanners, and others who were considered "unclean" due to their trade. But we see the shepherds of Bethlehem going about freely talking with the people when Jesus was born about the things they had seen and heard. They weren't under the Rabbinic ban because they were no ordinary shepherds, they were Temple Shepherds.

Of course there is a lot of other historical and even archaeological evidence about these flocks and the shepherds that supports the December 25 date, a date which actually dates back in writing to within one generation of the time of the Apostles, but there's just too much to post it all. But I would recommend that one not be hasty in tossing out anciently recognized dates based on a few unproven claims.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

I could not care less if Jesus was born on sukkot or December 25th, the date does not matter, but the fact that it is about the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Take heart fellow Christian. All the actual historical and archaeological evidence supports the December 25 date.

And think about it. Tabernacles was one of the three annual festivals when all male Jews were required by law to keep the feast in Jerusalem. Thus 1) Bethlehem would not have been so crowded that Joseph and Mary couldn't find lodging because everyone would have been in Jerusalem for the feast, 2) Joseph (an observant Jew) would have obeyed the Law and been in Jerusalem for the feast, and 3) Herod would never had ordered a census be conducted during the holy week of a festival which the people were required by law to keep in Jerusalem but which a census would have prevented as it required the people to travel to the seat of the heads of their families to be registered.

Jesus could not have been born in Bethlehem during Tabernacles.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

They are not Judaizers. They do not believe that keeping the law is how you EARN salvation. They believe that keeping the law is the obedience that accompanies faith. That doesn't make them Judaizers.

Then they do not understand either the Gospel or the Law. The Law was not a moral code of conduct. It was a covenant by which obedience to the commandments, ALL the commandments, including the sacrificial ordinances, provided reconciliation and fellowship with God.

The Gospel is the good news that NOW reconciliation and fellowship with God is provided by walking in faith in the blood of Jesus Christ to clothe us in his righteous obedience as his spirit works within us to conform us to his image.

Life rests not in following the letter of the Law, but the Spirit of the Law which, "except ye be born again, ye cannot see ..."


In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

Well, since September 11th in the year, 3 AD, at about 6:30 PM has been pretty well nailed down as the actual birth date and time, I just consider it a belated Happy Birthday celebration.

That date is historically impossible.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

Actually Jesus was conceived December 25 and the Jews counted there birthday starting on the day of conception, Dec 25 was the first day that God became flesh, that is why I celebrate, and he was born Sept 29. God bless

Actually, that's not accurate. Jews then and now, according to the Scripture (such as Leviticus 12 and elsewhere), count a child's birth from the day he is born. For example, Jesus (as with all male babes) was circumcised on the 8th day after his birth (January 1) according to Luke 2:21. Then he was "redeemed" (as with all 1st born males not of Levitical descent) on the 41st day after his birth (February 3).

According to the theory that the date of birth was counted from conception, males babes (8 day old fetuses) would have to be circumcised in utero.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

Because I am wondering myself why are we celebrating Christmas when Jesus was not born on Christmas although
Mithra: The Pagan Christ was born on Christmas

That's not actually true.

Mithraism was a "mystery" religion of Rome and almost exclusively limited to the Roman military. Being a mystery religion there are no actual records of their beliefs as they were secrets shared among the initiates only and not allowed to be written down. But we do have some evidence, over 1000 inscriptions and numerous tauroctony which depicts the central theme of Mithraism, Mithra slaying the bull with Sol the sun god in attendance after which they feasted on the flesh of the bull.

The only feast day of Mithraism for which there is any textual or archaeological evidence is the reenactment of the feast that followed the victory of Mithra. According to the inscription on the Virunum album, the feast celebrating the victory of Mithra was observed on June 26.

Mithraism only lasted from the 1st to the 4th century. When Christians destroyed the underground mithraeum, or underground places of worship (of which there were from 650 to 680 throughout the city of Rome), they considered the cult to be so polluted that the Christians refused to even pick up the coins that lay scattered about and which have subsequently been discovered in every mithraeum that has been investigated. Among other items found in these mithraeum is the remains of feasts, including bones and eating utensils. But the most common artifact is an abundance of cherry pits, which supports the inscription that the feast day of Mithra was in June when cherries were harvested.

There was no birth celebration at any time of year and only the one feast in June.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[TestimonyJames]

Hey brother Marcelo, just curious what month you were born in?

 

[Pilgrimer]

I started to read it but honestly this just scares the heck out of me it makes me feel like im gonna have a panic attack

You have to understand that the article is first laying out all the arguments that critics of Christmas are making. But the article goes on to say that none of these arguments actually quote any historical writings or archaeological artifacts to support their claims. The reason is there are none.

Mithraism was a "mystery" religion and therefore it's beliefs and practices were not allowed to be written down and they were only taught to the initiates. Thus the only things we actually know about Mithraism is from the few tauroctony (stone depictions) of only three beliefs: 1) a tauroctony depicting Mithra being born from a rock (born a full grown man, no date for the birth is known), 2) a tauroctony depicting Mithra slaying the bull, and 3) the feast after Mithra's victory of slaying the bull. And that's it.

The only feast day of Mithraism for which there is any textual or archaeological evidence is the reenactment of the feast that followed the victory of Mithra. According to the inscription on the Virunum album, the feast celebrating the victory of Mithra was observed on June 26. And that is the only feast known to have been celebrated by Mithraism.

Mithraism only lasted from the 1st to the 4th century. When Christians destroyed the underground mithraeum, or underground places of worship (of which there were from 650 to 680 throughout the city of Rome), they considered the cult to be so polluted that the Christians refused to even pick up the coins that lay scattered about and which have subsequently been discovered in every mithraeum that has been investigated. Among other items found in these mithraeum is the remains of feasts, including bones and eating utensils. But the most common artifact is an abundance of cherry pits. Cherries ripen in early summer which adds evidence the inscription that the feast day of Mithra was in June when cherries were harvested.

So don't be alarmed, there is no actual historical or archaeological support for all these wild claims that the anti-Christmas crowd throws around.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[blue_ladybug]

People, Christmas is over with. Save it for next year.. lol

 

[Pilgrimer]

It's traditionally a day to celebrate the dead.

Halloween (All Hallows Eve) actually originated as a Christian observance on the eve of All Saints Day, a day on which the orthodox churches traditionally remember those who have passed.

We Protestants have "thrown out the baby with the bath water," so to speak. When we broke away from the high church we rejected not only some of the doctrines but also the many rites and rituals and regalia of high church practice. We still observe the most basic "holy days," (Christmas and Easter for example), but because we have rejected the liturgical calendar we have lost the meaning behind many of the customs and traditions associated with these holidays. This has left us wide open to claims that our customs and traditions have pagan roots, when in fact they are very much rooted and grounded in how Christians through the ages have celebrated the times and seasons of our faith.

Just for an example ... eggs and Easter. No, the association of eggs with Easter has nothing to do with pagan spring fertility rites. Almost since the beginning of the church, Christians have practiced the very Biblically sound principle of fasting. We have written records dating back to within a generation of the Apostles that discuss Christians fasting from foods that are derived from animals (meat, dairy, eggs, etc.), especially in the season leading up to Easter. And one of the foods most commonly fasted from, and was in fact mentioned in the earliest writings, was eggs.

Now through the ages, families who fasted from eggs during the 40 days before Easter (called Lent) would find themselves with a surfeit of eggs, so the sensible thing to do would be to let the hens set the eggs so they didn't spoil and go to waste. And naturally, that means there would be a sudden boom of baby chicks being born in the days leading up to Easter. But then, as was the custom of Biblical times, the fast would end with a feast on the day of the Resurrection, Easter, and all the foods that one had fasted from would once more grace the dinner table, including eggs, which eventually Christians began to die different colors and hide for children to find to make the day more festive.

And that's how simply and innocently eggs and chicks came to be so much a part of our Easter celebration.

There was nothing pagan about all this. Instead our customs and traditions have come down to us through the ages by Christians living out their faith in simple ways and observing the times and seasons of Jesus' life.

Halloween, or All Hallow's Eve, is actually an old Christian observance.

Besides, if you take the materialization and secularization of Christmas as an example, it's not Christians who have adopted pagan holidays, it's pagans who have adopted Christian holidays ...

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Pilgrimer]

People, Christmas is over with. Save it for next year.. lol

Not quite! lol

The eastern orthodox churches still use the Julian calendar and on that calendar December 25 hasn't come yet, that will be Saturday (January 6 on our calendar). So Christmas Day is over for the western churches, but not for the eastern churches. That's what the "12 days of Christmas" are all about.

And to take it a bit further, the Christmas celebration traditionally doesn't end with Christmas Day, but continues with Mardi Gras, which begins the day after Epiphany, and continues until Fat Tuesday (the last day "fat" foods such as meat, dairy, eggs, etc.) can be eaten, the next day being "Ash Wednesday," and the beginning of Lent (the 40 days before Easter), a time of fasting and prayer and reflection and preparation for Easter.

The early church only baptized new converts at Easter, and the 40 days before were used to instruct them in the Gospel and prepare them for their initiation into the body of Christ.

So much history behind all these things and so rich with meaning.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[TestimonyJames]

Hello everybody, recently I was struggling with the option of choosing as a Christian to celebrate Christmas. I'm familiar with Paganistic tradition that celebrates winter solstice as a holy day on December 25th. I'm familiar with Constantine who formed Roman Catholicism after being converted from paganism. I'm very well aware of both sides of the arguments and key points when it comes down to participating or abstaining from celebrating Christmas. Both sides have very valid points and I admire the sincerity among my brothers and sisters in Christ whose only desire is to be obedient to God through their faith. After a proper evaluation and ponderance I've come to the conclusion that my family will observe Christmas with Christ being the sole focus. Christ is the focul point of our family 365 days a year and although the real celebration for Christians is in His death, burial and resurrection, we still like to come together as a family and rejoice over our Kings birth as well. Birthdays are only mentioned twice in the Bible and both have a negative connotation but that's another topic altogether. Ok, so here's my point.

 

[Studyman]

EVERYTHING is pagan. Anniversaries, bdays, days of the week, etc etc... Should we not celebrate those either?

Not sure how your birthday is the same as the birthday of RA or Mithra or Venus.

It seems if Jesus wanted us to create this largest Christian High Day of all time, He would have mentioned SOMETHING about it at least once, other than Jeremiah 10 telling us not to do it.

I'm pretty sure if your husband told you he was going to celebrate your birthday on his old girlfriend's birth date instead of yours, you wouldn't be too happy about that.

No matter how many times he said it wasn't about his old girlfriend.

 

[Studyman]

Then they do not understand either the Gospel or the Law. The Law was not a moral code of conduct. It was a covenant by which obedience to the commandments, ALL the commandments, including the sacrificial ordinances, provided reconciliation and fellowship with God.

The Gospel is the good news that NOW reconciliation and fellowship with God is provided by walking in faith in the blood of Jesus Christ to clothe us in his righteous obedience as his spirit works within us to conform us to his image.

Life rests not in following the letter of the Law, but the Spirit of the Law which, "except ye be born again, ye cannot see ..."


In Christ,
Pilgrimer

You missed the important Biblical fact that Jesus Said He will write His Laws on our hearts. If God's Instructions aren't important, and Jesus nailed them to the cross as most mainstream preachers preach, then why does He tell us He will write them on our hearts?