Christ's Gospel? Paul's Gospel?
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7
well that is a whopping oversimplification
first of all, the commandments were given, by God, to underscore sin and all the law was a further illustration of how God who is holy, cannot dwell in the presence of, or allow sin to come into His presence
the law was perfect, according to God who gave it, but He knew full well no one could keep it
as Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden, even way back then, God promised a solution to the sin that had entered the world through them. Jesus as the Lamb of God.
the law and commandments are still in effect but those who are in Christ Jesus, have their sins forgiven because of His shed blood. Jesus never broke the law and He was obedient even to the awful death He suffered in our place
we are no longer obligated to keep any law. we are a new creation in Christ
it is really quite a bad understanding to say the old covenant was bad for mankind.
what I wrote is also very light on details. it is a subject that requires study in both testaments
7
do you know why Jesus death was the final sacrifice and why God found Him acceptable?
you do not illustrate an understanding of the OT yourself with a comment like the Old Covenant was done away with because it was not a good one
as God made that covenant with the Israelites, you are stating God messed up if you think it was not good
but you know that's fine
asking a question as you did, is simply you attempting to make it seem you have superior knowledge
you know, it's really not about that for me at all. it makes a difference in a believer's life if they actually understand what transpired when Jesus fulfilled all of God's demands
I just don't care to have people thinking what you said covers the OT and covenantal relationship of God with His people so I tried to point out there is much more to it
but you can stay where you are. the Bible says we are to study; not skip over knowledge and gain further understanding.
glib comments don't hold much of an edifice
in other words, your foundation is not going to support further knowledge nor give understanding if that is all a person knows
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Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
After nine chapters of the disciples going around preaching the gospel of the kingdom, we are told they do not understand the gospel which a person must trust in today to be saved. In fact, Scripture says God hid it from their understanding.Why did God hide it from them? 1 Corinthians 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Satan would have never played a part in the crucifixion had he realized the outcome. He thought he was gaining the victory over the promised seed (Gen. 3:15).
Luke 24
6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
8 And they remembered his words,
9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
Did you catch that? The disciples thought the resurrection was an idle tale.
Mark 9
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
Can you imagine today a preacher of the gospel of grace not understanding what the rising of the dead should mean?
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
After nine chapters of the disciples going around preaching the gospel of the kingdom, we are told they do not understand the gospel which a person must trust in today to be saved. In fact, Scripture says God hid it from their understanding.Why did God hide it from them? 1 Corinthians 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Satan would have never played a part in the crucifixion had he realized the outcome. He thought he was gaining the victory over the promised seed (Gen. 3:15).
Luke 24
6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
8 And they remembered his words,
9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
Did you catch that? The disciples thought the resurrection was an idle tale.
Mark 9
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
Can you imagine today a preacher of the gospel of grace not understanding what the rising of the dead should mean?
I asked the question because I think you have no clue what the old covenant was.
I think that because in your response to my comment about the old covenant you presented the law as if the law is the covenant, which it isn’t.
All the flag waving about how good the law of God is can’t change the fact that the old covenant was a complete failure.
Here’s the thing, I can ask a simple question and many posters who have been opinionating as if they know something can’t answer it.
Why?
Because they haven’t read rightly.
So they avoid the simple question and point at the goodness of the law instead.
So, again, present the old covenant and explain to me, if you don’t mind, why you think it was a good covenant for man.
I think that because in your response to my comment about the old covenant you presented the law as if the law is the covenant, which it isn’t.
All the flag waving about how good the law of God is can’t change the fact that the old covenant was a complete failure.
Here’s the thing, I can ask a simple question and many posters who have been opinionating as if they know something can’t answer it.
Why?
Because they haven’t read rightly.
So they avoid the simple question and point at the goodness of the law instead.
So, again, present the old covenant and explain to me, if you don’t mind, why you think it was a good covenant for man.
1. A fundamental truth for all Christians is that ANYTHING WHICH ORIGINATES WITH GOD IS ESSENTIALLY GOOD. Do you believe that or do you not?
2. But we could go much further and look at all the laws within the Old Covenant and see that each and every one of those lows was a good law -- indeed excellent. So your homework assignment is to go through all the laws listed from Exodus to Deuteronomy and tell us which of those laws was bad.
3. The Old Covenant was given to us to show humanity (1) the absolute righteousness of God and (2) the absolute snfulness of sin. How can that be bad? You tell us.
2. But we could go much further and look at all the laws within the Old Covenant and see that each and every one of those lows was a good law -- indeed excellent. So your homework assignment is to go through all the laws listed from Exodus to Deuteronomy and tell us which of those laws was bad.
3. The Old Covenant was given to us to show humanity (1) the absolute righteousness of God and (2) the absolute snfulness of sin. How can that be bad? You tell us.
Yes. The question is, good for what?
I said the law is good.
You haven’t presented the old covenant. You presented the law of God. That isn’t the old covenant.
So, maybe you don’t even know what the old covenant is. Do you know where it is found in scripture?
Sure I can answer. But when I make what many of you think is a shocking statement, your shocked because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Then you all act like I’m the ignorant one. Not that I care what others think, but I’d thought you all studied scripture carefully. But, I’ve learned my lesson, now I know most of you are just opinionated religionists.
I said the law is good.
You haven’t presented the old covenant. You presented the law of God. That isn’t the old covenant.
So, maybe you don’t even know what the old covenant is. Do you know where it is found in scripture?
Sure I can answer. But when I make what many of you think is a shocking statement, your shocked because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Then you all act like I’m the ignorant one. Not that I care what others think, but I’d thought you all studied scripture carefully. But, I’ve learned my lesson, now I know most of you are just opinionated religionists.
It isn’t shocking seems to me, more like common sense to avoid a doomed to failure legal relationship based on my own ability to obey God, in favor of receiving a gracious one that pleases God and ends with perfect results pleasing to God.
Deuteronomy 27:1 And Moses with the elders of Israel commanded the people, saying, Keep all the commandments which I command you this day.
The beginning of the legal agreement.
Deuteronomy 27:9 And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the LORD thy God.
10 Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the LORD thy God, and do his commandments and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
The Israelites were commanded to obey and do all.
Deuteronomy 27:11 And Moses charged the people the same day, saying,
12 These shall stand upon mount Gerizim to bless the people, when ye are come over Jordan; Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Joseph, and Benjamin:
13 And these shall stand upon mount Ebal to curse; Reuben, Gad, and Asher, and Zebulun, Dan, and Naphtali,
Half of Israel commanded to stand as witness and to bless, half to curse immediate upon having entered the promised land.
Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
They will only be blessed if they hearken, and observe to do, all the commandments.
Deuteronomy 27:14 And the Levites shall speak, and say unto all the men of Israel with a loud voice,
The priests proclaim loudly 12 curses that are legally amened. As in “So be it.”
Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
Only happens if the Israelites observe and do all the commandments.
Followed by 4 blessings and four curses.
Followed by tremendous threats if they fail to observe and do all.
Deuteronomy 28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD
Followed by more threats.
Deuteronomy 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
Deuteronomy 29:10 Ye stand this day all of you before the LORD your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day:
Everyone was involved.
Deuteronomy 31:15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
The Lord knew they would break the covenant.
Deuteronomy 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?
28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.
So, the question in my mind is...
Why did the Israelites sign on?
They had confidence in the flesh.
Compare that to what Jesus taught as the blessings of the new covenant...
Matthew 5:2-12
And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
The new covenant resting on faith in Jesus who works in us to will and to do whatever is pleasing to God. No limiting commandments as letter but a living walk with Jesus in the light as he walks.
Deuteronomy 27:1 And Moses with the elders of Israel commanded the people, saying, Keep all the commandments which I command you this day.
The beginning of the legal agreement.
Deuteronomy 27:9 And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the LORD thy God.
10 Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the LORD thy God, and do his commandments and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
The Israelites were commanded to obey and do all.
Deuteronomy 27:11 And Moses charged the people the same day, saying,
12 These shall stand upon mount Gerizim to bless the people, when ye are come over Jordan; Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Joseph, and Benjamin:
13 And these shall stand upon mount Ebal to curse; Reuben, Gad, and Asher, and Zebulun, Dan, and Naphtali,
Half of Israel commanded to stand as witness and to bless, half to curse immediate upon having entered the promised land.
Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
They will only be blessed if they hearken, and observe to do, all the commandments.
Deuteronomy 27:14 And the Levites shall speak, and say unto all the men of Israel with a loud voice,
The priests proclaim loudly 12 curses that are legally amened. As in “So be it.”
Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
Only happens if the Israelites observe and do all the commandments.
Followed by 4 blessings and four curses.
Followed by tremendous threats if they fail to observe and do all.
Deuteronomy 28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD
Followed by more threats.
Deuteronomy 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
Deuteronomy 29:10 Ye stand this day all of you before the LORD your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day:
Everyone was involved.
Deuteronomy 31:15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
The Lord knew they would break the covenant.
Deuteronomy 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?
28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.
So, the question in my mind is...
Why did the Israelites sign on?
They had confidence in the flesh.
Compare that to what Jesus taught as the blessings of the new covenant...
Matthew 5:2-12
And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
The new covenant resting on faith in Jesus who works in us to will and to do whatever is pleasing to God. No limiting commandments as letter but a living walk with Jesus in the light as he walks.
7
it's impossible to answer you because you don't seem to understand either the OT or what I wrote
can you find where I said the covenant was good for mankind? no? well that would be because I never said it
this is what I actually said:
and I said that in response to you saying the old covenant was no good.
you know, it seems you have almost no understanding of the OT or the covenant God made with Israel
I say that in light of this comment from you
it could never be a failure because God knew it could never be kept
now you can study and see why that is so
and I suggest you do
.
Christ's Gospel? Paul's Gospel?
Are they different? Or are they complementary? Is Paul's Gospel 'his', or is it God's Gospel embraced by him? Are Paul's (and the other apostolic writings in the New Covenant Scriptures) what Jesus alluded to in John 16?
*other opinions of poster deleted* See JGIG;1705767 for full post.
-JGIG
Christ's Gospel? Paul's Gospel?
Are they different? Or are they complementary? Is Paul's Gospel 'his', or is it God's Gospel embraced by him? Are Paul's (and the other apostolic writings in the New Covenant Scriptures) what Jesus alluded to in John 16?
*other opinions of poster deleted* See JGIG;1705767 for full post.
-JGIG
For Heaven's sake, 2 TIM 3:16 states: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
All I surmise is that there are a lot of Atheists on this forum or a lot of XXX? who want simply to start or continue an(any) argument for the sake of argument.
So SAD!...They know not or care that they condemn themselves out of every utterance spoken.
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Hi ErnestQ,
I do believe what the Bible says that in the Book of Acts evidently there were many instances of water baptism. That is the simple point I have raised which have been underlined in the previous post of Incognito. The books of Acts is/are scripture/s and all scripture is given by inspiration of God and who are we to judge God? Is there any problem when the scriptures says there's water baptism?
BTW, If you want to raise counterpoint on what I posted say then, perhaps we can discussed...
Thanks,
I do believe what the Bible says that in the Book of Acts evidently there were many instances of water baptism. That is the simple point I have raised which have been underlined in the previous post of Incognito. The books of Acts is/are scripture/s and all scripture is given by inspiration of God and who are we to judge God? Is there any problem when the scriptures says there's water baptism?
BTW, If you want to raise counterpoint on what I posted say then, perhaps we can discussed...
Thanks,
How can anyone pose the question of the title of this thread?
Paul, himself, teaches there is no other gospel but the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
All too many people quote and post things about Paul or what they have derived from reading his letters,
then come to the Body with a confused and fleshy interpretation.
Allow the Holy Spirit to witness to the hearts of all and do not be moved and taken away by whimsical words of doctrine.
Paul, himself, teaches there is no other gospel but the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
All too many people quote and post things about Paul or what they have derived from reading his letters,
then come to the Body with a confused and fleshy interpretation.
Allow the Holy Spirit to witness to the hearts of all and do not be moved and taken away by whimsical words of doctrine.
There is only one gospel- the gospel of Jesus Christ- which is the good news of how the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ can save us from hell if obeyed. During baptism we die to ourself, bury our sinful self in the watery grave of baptism, and are raised a new creature in Christ- that is the one and only gospel that saves.
Romans 6:3, 1 Peter 3:21, 2 Thesalonians 1:8, 1 Corinthians 15:4, Galatians 1:8
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