Circumcision is not the law of Moses
- Thread starter just-me
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
Jeremiah 9:25 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised;
Jeremiah 9:26 Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.
Jeremiah 9:26 Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.
Any born again who introduce the practices of the Law of Moses on their own lives and introduce to others to practice the same, are 'accursed'.
For example, being angry due to looking back and creeping back to the Old yoke of slavery and deceiving the others, the liberated born again ones, Apostle Paul in his letter to the Gentile church said about that such deceiving person, who think it is wise to practice circumcision and also want to impose on others in the church, rather have the whole thing cut off from his body.
For example, being angry due to looking back and creeping back to the Old yoke of slavery and deceiving the others, the liberated born again ones, Apostle Paul in his letter to the Gentile church said about that such deceiving person, who think it is wise to practice circumcision and also want to impose on others in the church, rather have the whole thing cut off from his body.
Last edited:
I hate to butt in on a male discussion, but this is the Bible.
But mainly I just want to comment on the myth that circumcision makes you more sensitive. I knew two women whose husbands had been uncircumcised, and had to get circumcisions as adults. They both said their husbands hated it, and felt much less sensitive, and grieved over the loss of sensitivity.
Which only makes sense, because you have all that delicate tissue rubbing against underwear.... umm
OK. I'm done! Daring to tread where angels will not go!
But mainly I just want to comment on the myth that circumcision makes you more sensitive. I knew two women whose husbands had been uncircumcised, and had to get circumcisions as adults. They both said their husbands hated it, and felt much less sensitive, and grieved over the loss of sensitivity.
Which only makes sense, because you have all that delicate tissue rubbing against underwear.... umm
OK. I'm done! Daring to tread where angels will not go!
I thought it best to post your, and my PM here as long as you posted this.
The purpose of the thread concerning circumcision was to point out that circumcision of the heart was first mentioned during the time that Israel traveled through the wilderness of Sinai, and not the physical. Anti law people want to use the physical circumcision as an excuse to say that the law God gave to Moses is no longer valid because of what Paul ministered. What you say is known, but thank you anyway. Circumcision of the heart is law and also New Testament, and on the same token, believers are of the seed of Abraham, the physical circumcision commemorating that covenant with him. Using physical circumcision as an excuse to make the Mosaic law go away is a very destructive doctrine.
Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Can we not talk about the Spiritual applications of circumcision?
The purpose of the thread concerning circumcision was to point out that circumcision of the heart was first mentioned during the time that Israel traveled through the wilderness of Sinai, and not the physical. Anti law people want to use the physical circumcision as an excuse to say that the law God gave to Moses is no longer valid because of what Paul ministered. What you say is known, but thank you anyway. Circumcision of the heart is law and also New Testament, and on the same token, believers are of the seed of Abraham, the physical circumcision commemorating that covenant with him. Using physical circumcision as an excuse to make the Mosaic law go away is a very destructive doctrine.
Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Can we not talk about the Spiritual applications of circumcision?
Last edited:
Yes to your first question. Here is the answer to the other 2.
God promised Israel an inheritance that He would give them. Because God/Christ Jesus created all things He knew that Israel needed to obey His commandments in order to possess the land and prosper accordingly. The love of God gave commandments so blessings would be predominant. God loved them and yearned for them, constantly reminding Israel of what He had done for them up to that point but they were rebellious and "stiffnecked". Israel's need was to be totally compatible with the laws in relation to creation and obeying God's principles of peace and love toward one another.
As we should be submissive to God by a circumcised heart in our walk with Him through Christ Jesus. Israel was instructed to do the same as we are instructed, and rejoice in the Lord because of what God had given for us to possess. As we are to possess our salvation, Israel's inheritance is the example for us to know how to possess our inheritance, and that is with a "circumcised heart."
Deuteronomy 10:11-22
11 And the LORD said unto me, Arise , take thy journey before the people, that they may go in and possess the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give unto them.
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good.
14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked .
17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible , which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.
21 He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen.
22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.
God promised Israel an inheritance that He would give them. Because God/Christ Jesus created all things He knew that Israel needed to obey His commandments in order to possess the land and prosper accordingly. The love of God gave commandments so blessings would be predominant. God loved them and yearned for them, constantly reminding Israel of what He had done for them up to that point but they were rebellious and "stiffnecked". Israel's need was to be totally compatible with the laws in relation to creation and obeying God's principles of peace and love toward one another.
As we should be submissive to God by a circumcised heart in our walk with Him through Christ Jesus. Israel was instructed to do the same as we are instructed, and rejoice in the Lord because of what God had given for us to possess. As we are to possess our salvation, Israel's inheritance is the example for us to know how to possess our inheritance, and that is with a "circumcised heart."
Deuteronomy 10:11-22
11 And the LORD said unto me, Arise , take thy journey before the people, that they may go in and possess the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give unto them.
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good.
14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked .
17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible , which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.
21 He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen.
22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.
Last edited:
I thought it best to post your, and my PM here as long as you posted this.
The purpose of the thread concerning circumcision was to point out that circumcision of the heart was first mentioned during the time that Israel traveled through the wilderness of Sinai, and not the physical. Anti law people want to use the physical circumcision as an excuse to say that the law God gave to Moses is no longer valid because of what Paul ministered. What you say is known, but thank you anyway. Circumcision of the heart is law and also New Testament, and on the same token, believers are of the seed of Abraham, the physical circumcision commemorating that covenant with him. Using physical circumcision as an excuse to make the Mosaic law go away is a very destructive doctrine.
Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Can we not talk about the Spiritual applications of circumcision?
The purpose of the thread concerning circumcision was to point out that circumcision of the heart was first mentioned during the time that Israel traveled through the wilderness of Sinai, and not the physical. Anti law people want to use the physical circumcision as an excuse to say that the law God gave to Moses is no longer valid because of what Paul ministered. What you say is known, but thank you anyway. Circumcision of the heart is law and also New Testament, and on the same token, believers are of the seed of Abraham, the physical circumcision commemorating that covenant with him. Using physical circumcision as an excuse to make the Mosaic law go away is a very destructive doctrine.
Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Can we not talk about the Spiritual applications of circumcision?
The Israelite were instructed by the Law of Moses to physically perform them when a male child is eight days old in the tabernacle. GOD placed this Law of Moses, the yoke of slavery and veil upon them because they placed a yoke of slavery of their sins upon GOD, time after time and this is between GOD and them.
Until GOD see it fit to HIS will and time, then introduced the MESSIAH to them first. And 'by grace and through faith', HIS gift given to them first, some of them believed in the SON and labored for HIM in tribulation and persecution. And from them the Gentile church is born by them and through them. The rest who rejected and rejects the SON is not forgotten either, who were made ignorant until today until another set time again by GOD.
So, Christian have that revelation in Spiritual taught knowledge by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, who are together liberated from the 'yoke of slavery'. Their practices now are according to the Law of the SPIRIT of CHRIST, written Spiritual revelational knowledge, that acts to all believers as a reminder and a stir up of memory, to excel in the New Covenant.
As it is written to those who are called to welcome the Gospel with all their hearts, souls, minds and strength, as in Matthew 5; 20, that;
"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
The LORD said to the HOLY SPIRIT and to share to others that;
"Believers who remain in the flesh/carnality, find it difficult to welcome wholeheartedly the Spiritual New Covenant and practice them in their lives. They tend to go back eventually, 'like a dog who goes back to licks it's vomit', to the 'Old yoke of slavery of the fleshly/carnality things', as how Israel of the Old Covenant practiced.
'How much longer must the LORD be with us and put up with us' and HE said, 'you cannot give what is good and holy to dogs, for it will only turn around and bite you'.
Gentiles are in other word is referred to as dogs but we are called as children. Are we acting like HIS thankful children?
The ones who are, are really laying down their lives for the Gospel sake in the field. The others are as said, 'Ever learning but never come to the knowledge of the truth'. This includes the ones who are gifted sharing this knowledge as well. Why do you who have also not come to the knowledge of the truth, continue to explain and debate with the blind?
Even in this natural world it's people know that they cannot force and be harsh on a blind person to see.
Well, that kinda goes against the fact that Abram circumcised Ishmael at the age of 13, which contradicts the everlasting to everlasting principle of the true Word but I noticed that you seemed to skip over that; by the way does Paul tell you who circumcised Abram.
I would say that Luke 9:41-42 is like hearing what the Spirit had to say except I was told I was wrong about our ability to speak being a gift of tongues given to the spirit. So if the spirit has nothing to do with the word then it is little wonder that I got this wrong too. I guess it shows some are definitely heirs to the promise God made to Abraham and some aren't.
Yet, I still can't help but think that the circumcision at 13 years old under those circumstances is still dead wrong, considering what is written about Ismael in Genesis 16:
11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
So I guess I relax in my comforter and listen to what is said.
I would say that Luke 9:41-42 is like hearing what the Spirit had to say except I was told I was wrong about our ability to speak being a gift of tongues given to the spirit. So if the spirit has nothing to do with the word then it is little wonder that I got this wrong too. I guess it shows some are definitely heirs to the promise God made to Abraham and some aren't.
Yet, I still can't help but think that the circumcision at 13 years old under those circumstances is still dead wrong, considering what is written about Ismael in Genesis 16:
11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
So I guess I relax in my comforter and listen to what is said.
A
John 7:22-23
22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken ; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
that verse clearly states that EXTERNAL circumcision IS part of the Law of Moses.
the other verses allude to what Jesus taught: internal circumcision is more important and part of the Law of Grace that He taught.
In the Old testament and the OLD covenant it was necessary to be externally circumcised. However, we are now under the NEW testament and external circumcision is no longer necessary but INTERNAL one of the heart is required.
22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken ; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
that verse clearly states that EXTERNAL circumcision IS part of the Law of Moses.
the other verses allude to what Jesus taught: internal circumcision is more important and part of the Law of Grace that He taught.
In the Old testament and the OLD covenant it was necessary to be externally circumcised. However, we are now under the NEW testament and external circumcision is no longer necessary but INTERNAL one of the heart is required.
Didn't God free Israel from slavery? Isn't that the same as Jesus' intentions? Seems to me God hasn't changed His desire from the beginning of time.
Leviticus 26:13 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
Leviticus 26:13 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
Last edited:
You've never really wanted to understand the specifics of the spiritual side of the law as is evident by your posts. You have learned to the the law of God. I sincerely believe that you cannot see beyond its physical aspects, which evidences a carnal mindset according to Romans 8:5-7
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Now let me quote you the law God gave to Moses concerning the true circumcision in relation to the New Covenant because you are obviously as "stiffened" individual concerning the law of God. I exhort you to circumcise the foreskin of your heart according to the law that God gave to Moses.
Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Galatians 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Colossians 2:10-11
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Now let me quote you the law God gave to Moses concerning the true circumcision in relation to the New Covenant because you are obviously as "stiffened" individual concerning the law of God. I exhort you to circumcise the foreskin of your heart according to the law that God gave to Moses.
Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Galatians 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Colossians 2:10-11
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Last edited: