Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johnson,

[phil36]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

And here is an article above in blue where the person themselves addresses this topic.

I Haven't read the article yet, but does that include 'crowder'? I know Bethel prefer to call it 'mantel' as in you can transfer a dead persons (supposed)' anointing to yourself..or anointing transferal from the dead.. Sounds very Pagan to me.

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

I've never heard the term until this thread, but am pretty sure it's visiting the graves of past men of God, hoping to receive the mans mantle or anointing.

Same here for me. I never heard of this before either until I read it here. It's funny because as as I told you I spend a month at Bethel Church recently.

It is all a bunch of foolishness which looks like some kids did at a grave of Smith Wigglesworth. They felt a kinship in the spirit. Personally I don't believe anyone gets anyone else's anointing in the body of Christ - each of us have our own anointing from the Holy Spirit. Now, some anointings may be similar but you don't get them from other people.

But to say that these immature kids in the faith are from the devil and are grave-sucking for things from dead people is just spiritual ignorance gone to seed. When we listen to what was said from Bill Johnson in the article in Charisma mag about that stuff - you will see that it was not condoned by Bethel itself.

 

[stonesoffire]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

I looked at that article from the OPoster. It doesn't say Bill Johnson teaches these things. He won't condemn those who do because they are his friends. Just because he visited a grave, doesn't mean he believes this.

Thats the trouble with those who want to tear a mans ministry up.

Not aiming last comment at the OP.

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

I Haven't read the article yet, but does that include 'crowder'? I know Bethel prefer to call it 'mantel' as in you can transfer a dead persons (supposed)' anointing to yourself..or anointing transferal from the dead.. Sounds very Pagan to me.

I don't know Phil. I have never heard of people in Bethel saying they have the "mantel" of someone else nor being able to suck it from a grave....lol

That makes me laugh. Sounds like the typical twisting of a self-proclaimed internet website heretic hunter that we often see.

I have heard others say that they have an anointing like another person. Kind of like a Billy Graham preaching like an evangelists and then someone comes along preaching like Billy Graham and people will say - he has Billy's "mantle"...most likely they mean same type or kind of anointing.

 

[stonesoffire]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

We apparently were posting at the same time Grace. Again. Lol Sorry.

 

[phil36]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

Same here for me. I never heard of this before either until I read it here. It's funny because as as I told you I spend a month at Bethel Church recently.

It is all a bunch of foolishness which looks like some kids did at a grave of Smith Wigglesworth. They felt a kinship in the spirit. Personally I don't believe anyone gets anyone else's anointing in the body of Christ - each of us have our own anointing from the Holy Spirit. Now, some anointings may be similar but you don't get them from other people.

But to say that these immature kids in the faith are from the devil and are grave-sucking for things from dead people is just spiritual ignorance gone to seed. When we listen to what was said from Bill Johnson in the article in Charisma mag about that stuff - you will see that it was not condoned by Bethel itself.

I Still haven't read the article (I checked it was a 46 min video) but did he condemn the practice? Considering what Bethel says on facebook?

The youtube video shows crowder 'grave sucking' and bare in mind thi is guy Bill Johnston seems to think is a good man? unless he stated other in the video you presented. BTW the youtube video is not very well presented but you see what crowder says. Of course this is the same crowder who inhales the Holy Spirit like a joint and gets high..see here :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kvTxULe5A (joy seems to make him drunk)

And if that is not enough here is damning peice written against 'Grave sucking and Bethels 'Mantel' by the same magazine you provide to say that its not what it seems:



7 biblical arguments against grave sucking (Mantel) Charisma magazine

7 Biblical Arguments Against 'Grave Soaking' — Charisma News


Personally I find it very disturbing, especially coming from those who say they proclaim Christ.

 

[Naboth]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

Hi Naboth,

It is from Daves post #7. Here it is and if you click the link were it says 'Article' you can read it.

I read your article. I see a lot of images of graves, but I don't really see any definition for grave-sucking in there. I mean can you just give me a basic definition of it?

And also whew, while kinda creepy looking, it's not as bad as what I was thinking.

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

I Still haven't read the article (I checked it was a 46 min video) but did he condemn the practice? Considering what Bethel says on facebook?

The youtube video shows crowder 'grave sucking' and bare in mind thi is guy Bill Johnston seems to think is a good man? unless he stated other in the video you presented. BTW the youtube video is not very well presented but you see what crowder says. Of course this is the same crowder who inhales the Holy Spirit like a joint and gets high..see here :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kvTxULe5A (joy seems to make him drunk)

And if that is not enough here is damning peice written against 'Grave sucking and Bethels 'Mantel' by the same magazine you provide to say that its not what it seems:



7 biblical arguments against grave sucking (Mantel) Charisma magazine

7 Biblical Arguments Against 'Grave Soaking' — Charisma News


Personally I find it very disturbing, especially coming from those who say they proclaim Christ.

No they do not believe in grace-sucking as some have been falsely led to believe.

The controversy is all settled in the Dr. Brown interview and most of it was just nonsense and extreme twisting of things and that happens a lot with others that don't like a particular group for whatever reason.

Anyway - it is a dead horse that has been put to bed ( except for the self-proclaimed heretic hunters and they will never stop) and not worth beating any more.

No one does this supposed grace sucking as outlined in some magazines.

 

[phil36]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

I read your article. I see a lot of images of graves, but I don't really see any definition for grave-sucking in there. I mean can you just give me a basic definition of it?

And also whew, while kinda creepy looking, it's not as bad as what I was thinking.

Hi, The article/link was posted by the OP of the thread.

I am not a Charismatic, but even the Charismatics are getting very nervous about this.

Mantle Grabbing: The Latest Charismania Trend? — Charisma News

7 Biblical Arguments Against 'Grave Soaking' — Charisma News

These are both from the same magazine..a Charismatice Magazine. only a few paragraphs each.

 

[Naboth]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

Hi, The article/link was posted by the OP of the thread.

I am not a Charismatic, but even the Charismatics are getting very nervous about this.

Mantle Grabbing: The Latest Charismania Trend? — Charisma News

7 Biblical Arguments Against 'Grave Soaking' — Charisma News

These are both from the same magazine..a Charismatice Magazine. only a few paragraphs each.

Okay, so if I understand correctly, would you say grave-sucking is like what stonesoffire is saying: Essentially dead men going to dead men's graves and trying to get dead men's blessings?

 

[phil36]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

No they do not believe in grace-sucking as some have been falsely led to believe. The controversy is all settled in the Dr. Brown interview and most of it was just nonsense and extreme twisting of things that happens a lot with others that don't like a particular group for whatever reason.

Anyway - it is a dead horse that has been put to bed ( except for the self-proclaimed heretic hunters and they will never stop) and not worth beating any more.

Not According to the Charismatic magazine articles? And Bethels own Facebook pages which describes their practice of 'Grave sucking' or otherwise known as 'grave soaking', or Mantle grabbing.. BTW these titles come from the very Charismatic magazine you like to post from.

 

[phil36]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

Okay, so if I understand correctly, would you say grave-sucking is like what stonesoffire is saying: Essentially dead men going to dead men's graves and trying to get dead men's blessings?

I haven't read stonesoffire's post. I think the practice is well described by crowder himself and Bethel (from their own FB page) and the quite damning reports from their own camp.. Charisma Magazine.

 

[Naboth]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

I haven't read stonesoffire's post. I think the practice is well described by crowder himself and Bethel (from their own FB page) and the quite damning reports from their own camp.. Charisma Magazine.

So... is that not the definition or what? I mean could I just get a straight answer? I'm not asking for articles lol.

 

[stonesoffire]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

Okay, so if I understand correctly, would you say grave-sucking is like what stonesoffire is saying: Essentially dead men going to dead men's graves and trying to get dead men's blessings?

no, not dead men going to dead men's graves. Lol Typo I hope?

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

Not According to the Charismatic magazine articles? And Bethels own Facebook pages which describes their practice of 'Grave sucking' or otherwise known as 'grave soaking', or Mantle grabbing.. BTW these titles come from the very Charismatic magazine you like to post from.

Phil, Phil, Phil....that facebook page you sent us to is not from Bethel Church - it is a heretic hunters page where "they say" what they want people to think is actually believed. Nothing about going to graves to suck the "anointing" from dead people as that is just a twisting of things......lol

You would really do yourself and others a big service if you listen to the actual "horse" themselves when Dr. Brown is asking about this to Bill Johnson who is the senior leadership at Bethel. I encourage you to listen to the interview with Dr. Brown and get the truth.

This is the latest truth from Charisma mag concerning this topic of which they finally get to the truth.

It is really a dead issue and it is just a waste of time really so I'm out of the thread and heading to do some reading.

Have a good night.

 

[stonesoffire]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

It's just a coarse term for wanting the anointing that another man had.

 

[Naboth]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

no, not dead men going to dead men's graves. Lol Typo I hope?

No, not a typo. If my reckoning of the definition is correct then I think the answer about how to deal with grave-sucking is pretty obvious; let the dead bury their dead.

 

[phil36]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

So... is that not the definition or what? I mean could I just get a straight answer? I'm not asking for articles lol.

I have not read the post you are referring to. I have however provided plenty of helpful information, a couple of which where provided initially by the original OP. They basically want the (supposedly) annointing of a dead man/woman.

 

[Naboth]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

I have not read the post you are referring to. I have however provided plenty of helpful information, a couple of which where provided initially by the original OP. They basically want the (supposedly) annointing of a dead man/woman.

Yea that's pretty much what she said (last post of last page.)

Well at least it isn't a certain misdemeanor, but still very strange.

I'd say quite simply it is not Christian. Not that we have to hate them or anything. Maybe they can be caused to understand. One verse from Jesus pretty much corrects this error in thinking. But if they will not, then I suppose just let the dead be with their dead.

Luke 20:38

[SUP]38 [/SUP]For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

 

[Stephen63]

Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns

I agree. But he is a great "bulls-eye" for those that don't believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today as all others will be too. It's the nature of the beast.

I'm a 36 year Pentecostal, I believe in spiritual gifts, believe prophecy is still active in the church today, & I wouldn't touch Bill Johnson with a 100 ft pole.

Anyone that thinks John Crowder is of God needs to have his head examined. "Grave sucking the glory off of dead christians". is more akin to witchcraft. Demonic.

1 John 1:9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

The "nature of the beast" is to follow after antichrist doctrine.

Overspiritualizing the things of God & the church is to make them of none effect.

PS: Readers, don't hate on me because I tell it like it is. More folks ought to be calling false teachers out on the carpet.