Conditional Salvation

[newbirth]

Yup, If never connected we can't say it cut off. Some time one pretend to be connected but Jesus said if one connected to the vine, it will bear fruit. By the fruit you tell the tree. But for special occasion if a man die in the same second he have a faith in Jesus, he will go to heaven because the requirement is faith not work.

Work is fruit not requirement, faith is.

seems to me fruit is required
John 15:1-8King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

 

[Jackson123]

seems to me fruit is required
John 15:1-8King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[SUP]2[/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8[/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

If fruit is the requirement for salvation/ have exist before salvation happen than no body save, because Jesus said branch can't bear fruit of itself.

Have a faith first, than because we have a faith in Him, we abide to Him then we bear the fruit.

So faith is the only requirement. Fruit is the result of abide to Him.

 

[newbirth]

The Bible does not teach that.

Where do you get that teaching from?

Who taught you that anyone gets "covered by Christ's perfect righteousness" whether it through baptism or anything else?

We put on the character of Christ is what "putting on Christ" means. Jesus is not a raincoat.

Colossians 2:11-13Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures.


Galatians 3:22-28Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But Scripture states that the whole world is controlled by the power of sin. Therefore, a promise based on faith in Yeshua Christ could be given to those who believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]We were kept under control by Moses’ laws until this faith came. We were under their control until this faith which was about to come would be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Before Christ came, Moses’ laws served as our guardian. Christ came so that we could receive God’s approval by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that this faith has come, we are no longer under the control of a guardian. [SUP]26 [/SUP]You are all God’s children by believing in Christ Yeshua. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Clearly, all of you who were baptized in Christ’s name have clothed yourselves with Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There are neither Jews nor Greeks, slaves nor free people, males nor females. You are all the same in Christ Yeshua.

Romans 6:1-6Names of God Bible (NOG)

6 What should we say then? Should we continue to sin so that God’s kindness[SUP][a][/SUP] will increase? [SUP]2 [/SUP]That’s unthinkable! As far as sin is concerned, we have died. So how can we still live under sin’s influence? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Yeshua were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]When we were baptized into his death, we were placed into the tomb with him. As Christ was brought back from death to life by the glorious power of the Father, so we, too, should live a new kind of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]If we’ve become united with him in a death like his, certainly we will also be united with him when we come back to life as he did. [SUP]6 [/SUP]We know that the person we used to be was crucified with him to put an end to sin in our bodies. Because of this we are no longer slaves to sin.

 

[SeaBass]

The Bible does not teach that.

Where do you get that teaching from?

Who taught you that anyone gets "covered by Christ's perfect righteousness" whether it through baptism or anything else?

We put on the character of Christ is what "putting on Christ" means. Jesus is not a raincoat.

Gal 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

The Greek word for "put on" is endyō meaning to sink into (clothing), clothe one's self, - Strong's

 

[SeaBass]

Yup, If never connected we can't say it cut off. Some time one pretend to be connected but Jesus said if one connected to the vine, it will bear fruit. By the fruit you tell the tree. But for special occasion if a man die in the same second he have a faith in Jesus, he will go to heaven because the requirement is faith not work.

Work is fruit not requirement, faith is.

But one cannot cut off what is never connected.

 

[Jackson123]

But one cannot cut off what is never connected.

When it fully connected it will bear fruit. when artificial connected then it dry and not bear the fruit. When the branch dray, mean not connected perfectly.
his skin seemed to stick in, but line clogged and can not distribute food to the stem

 

[SeaBass]

When it fully connected it will bear fruit. when artificial connected then it dry and not bear the fruit. When the branch dray, mean not connected perfectly.
his skin seemed to stick in, but line clogged and can not distribute food to the stem

The issue is that the promise of salvation can be lost by a Christian. If eternal security were true then it would be impossible for the branch to be severed from the vine...but it can be severed.

 

[Ariel82]

can you be disowned by you Heavenly Father?

 

[Kerry]

can you be disowned by you Heavenly Father?

No that is impossible, but you can disown Him.

 

[Ariel82]

No that is impossible, but you can disown Him.

conditional salvation is based on the false belief that you are saving yourself.... instead of faith that it is God who saves you.

 

[Kerry]

Was Jesus talking to sinners in Revelation when He said I wert that you were cold or hot but since you are luke warm I will spew you out of my mouth. He wasn't talking about sinners but His church.

 

[Kerry]

conditional salvation is based on the false belief that you are saving yourself.... instead of faith that it is God who saves you.

Faith in what?

 

[Ariel82]

God chastens those He loves:

Revelation 3

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— [SUP]18 [/SUP]I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. [SUP]19 [/SUP]As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross and the remission of sins through His shed blood.

 

[Kerry]

God chastens those He loves:

Revelation 3

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— [SUP]18 [/SUP]I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. [SUP]19 [/SUP]As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross and the remission of sins through His shed blood.

not even water baptism or forty days of purpose, wow I love you Ariel.

 

[Ariel82]

love you too bro


.... wondering what in the world "forty days of purpose" is ......

 

[Kerry]

love you too bro


.... wondering what in the world "forty days of purpose" is ......

The reason you don't know makes me love you even more. It's a Rick Warren doctrine and if you don't know who He is then will you be my wife. Just kidding.

 

[Butch5]

Butch5 hello,
I would first like to address something you say in this response: "if you notice I took Paul's writings in Romans 3 and 4 and Ephesians 2 and I harmonized them with the writings of James". "I took both writers and harmonized both of their writings".

By saying you harmonized both their writings means that you made them work together for your understanding. If you had to harmonize Paul and James writings that would mean you had to "change some things up" to put them into harmony. By you saying this means that you couldn't find harmony between Paul and James for your understanding so you had to "harmonize" them. You had to "make" them work.

God's Word is already in harmony we don't need to harmonize it. And we shouldn't "harmonize" God's word for our own understanding. Proverbs 3:5,6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths." (NKJV)

When I say I harmonized James and Paul, what I mean is that I understand them in such a way that there is no conflict. Many Christians claim works play no role in Salvation and then they try to interpret what James said as faith producing good works. However, that's not what James is arguing, he specifically said that faith without works is dead. Dead faith cannot produce good works. So, it's not me that changing anything. You see, if I see something that appears to be a conflict I change what I believe, I don't try to change what the Scriptures say.

 

[Butch5]

I have to concede to you there. I cannot argue your point as it is true we are not all able to explain exactly what we want to say or how to say it.

All I am saying is that we cannot just pick and choose verses for what we "want" to believe. Basically we have to go into a study without a preconceived idea and let the Holy Spirit guide us "not on our own understanding".

But at the same time I will stand on Ephesians 2:8,9. Only the merit of Christ, nothing I do. But my faith in God will be seen by the "good works" I do not unto my salvation but for His Glory.

Yes, we have to go into study without preconceived ideas. If you believe that then why did you dismiss what I said about works and simply say works are works?

 

[newbirth]

If fruit is the requirement for salvation/ have exist before salvation happen than no body save, because Jesus said branch can't bear fruit of itself.

Have a faith first, than because we have a faith in Him, we abide to Him then we bear the fruit.

So faith is the only requirement. Fruit is the result of abide to Him.

you are trying to prove that faith is the one thing that is the requirement for salvation.....but the scripture says it is by grace through faith in Christ...and Christ says to obey his words....
you reject scripture to be comforted in your doctrine....look how you make a list...when all these things happen simultaneously.....faith without works is dead....
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]but declared both to them of Damascus first and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judaea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

you can't say you have faith and do nothing.......those who believe and is baptised shall be saved.....

 

[Jackson123]

The issue is that the promise of salvation can be lost by a Christian. If eternal security were true then it would be impossible for the branch to be severed from the vine...but it can be severed.

Some people believe one save always save, some people don't. It another subject brother. But now we focus if the salvation by faith alone or work.

We can't do any good before have a faith to Jesus, branch can't bear the fruit by itself. How you believe work requirement for salvation rather than as a result/fruit of faith in Jesus.