Could signs of worldwide revival be a deception?

[InSpiritInTruth]

This is referring to Israel, dear boy, and not the Church (which is the Body of Christ)...

Yahweh Shalom

Boy!? I'll take that as a compliment youngin. And not all Israel is of Israel

Romans 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

 

[atwhatcost]

probably important to look past american Christianity over the past 50 years that has produces nothing but apathetic followers and children, who don't know Jesus - that Revival would look nothing like that type of Christianity

There was a real revival 43-44 years ago in America. That's the one that brought both hubby and me to the Lord, and we were in different states, and wouldn't meet for another eight years. Don't discount what God can and has done in revivals, even in America.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

I think this is quibbling. Sure there are many antichrists defined as you say in first John, but common usage tags the beast in Rev 13 as the antichrist because he is the chief opposer of Christ waging war on the saints, exalting himself as God etc. So a rose by any other name is still a rose. Call him what you want, just don't bow down.

Using the common usage tag antichrist for the beast is used because of mans tradition, it is NOT what the Word states. In fact Rev 22.18 says:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and [SUP][i][/SUP]from the holy city, which are written in this book.

So why would you add the term antichrist to the beast, when Jesus himself says not to add to this book of prophecy? Call me a quibbler all you want to, but Jesus makes it pretty clear in The above verse.


Another example is the term, streets of Gold. There are no streets of Gold in Heaven, streets of Gold are found in the New Jerusalem, which sits on the new earth. The final destination for believers is not "Heaven" it is the new Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven. Yet we still hear it preached and sang that Heaven has streets of Gold but the Bible does not state this.

We agree I wont bow.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

He doesn't return to earth during the rapture.

SO he is coming back to space 1x and the earth 1x!?!?

Help me here bro, where do we met him in this super secret rapture you keep talking about?

 

[atwhatcost]

if you take a more literal approach to Scripture you'll natually gravitate towards a dispensational view but if you're into allegorizing especially prophecies you'll tend towards amill...by default.

Nope. In the famous words of Yoda, "There is another."

I'm not dispensationalist for the simple reason that God created time and space, lives outside of it, but in it too, (omnipresent) so exactly why would God set up "dispensations?" Didn't he have it set as planned before his first, "Let there be...?"

I am, very much a literalist. I take God at his word, unless otherwise notified. (Otherwise notified -- bad advice from Job's buddies and wife, and when Jesus said, "This is a parable.")

So, nope. Neither dispensational nor mill-anything.

I told you. I don't get it. This is what I mean when I say I don't get it, and there is no way anyone will get me to get it, because I don't particularly think any of this stuff is all that important. It gives me the same heebeegeebees I got when I realize my denomination split over something as silly as "When did God decide that Jesus would die on the cross?" (Supralapsarianism vs. infralapsarianism.) Does it matter? (Um, no. It really doesn't.)

 

[peacefulbeliever]

So I will ask what someone else did, Does Jesus come back 3x then?

This is what pre-trib doctrine seems to imply.

He came as a baby wrapped in swaddling clothes
He returns during the rapture
He returns for the Day of the Lord

This is not found in the scriptures.

Are these events the same . . . .

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [1 Thess. 4]

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh . . . And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. [Zechariah 14]

Or do they describe two different events?

 

[Sirk]

Nope. In the famous words of Yoda, "There is another."

I'm not dispensationalist for the simple reason that God created time and space, lives outside of it, but in it too, (omnipresent) so exactly why would God set up "dispensations?" Didn't he have it set as planned before his first, "Let there be...?"

I am, very much a literalist. I take God at his word, unless otherwise notified. (Otherwise notified -- bad advice from Job's buddies and wife, and when Jesus said, "This is a parable.")

So, nope. Neither dispensational nor mill-anything.

I told you. I don't get it. This is what I mean when I say I don't get it, and there is no way anyone will get me to get it, because I don't particularly think any of this stuff is all that important. It gives me the same heebeegeebees I got when I realize my denomination split over something as silly as "When did God decide that Jesus would die on the cross?" (Supralapsarianism vs. infralapsarianism.) Does it matter? (Um, no. It really doesn't.)

This is where I land as well. God knew every position of every Galaxy, solar system, sun, planet, moon down to the very hair on your head before He spoke it all into existence. When he strung the first strand of DNA together he knew every generation that would follow.

 

[crossnote]

Boy!? I'll take that as a compliment youngin. And not all Israel is of Israel

Romans 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

That's showing a difference between believing Jews and non believing Jews...young un.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think this verse debunks a pretrib rapture, otherwise the beast would have no one to make war against during that time. Maybe this doctrine has taken such a hold that some who claim salvation don't care because they will escape before this all begins. If a pretib rapture will take place, I wonder how many that will be left behind will ask, and converse with others, "why weren't we told it would be this way?" The answer will probably be, "could be they just weren't concerned."

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." Revelation 13:7

You know...I was raised believing in pre-trib and dogmatically defended it...then I had to teach thru 1st and 2nd Thessalonians...the questions began to roll in and after 26 years of intensive study I wrote a 212 page book on the subject....the resurrection/change is post great tribulation/pre-wrath at the 7th trump of God when all the facts are taken into account......the book is in my blog section and how to open it.....!

Question 1....

Revelation 20<--ONLY 1 (ONE) general resurrection/change of the(blessed) saved upon which the 2nd death have NO POWER...the ones who lose their heads for refusal to take the mark of the beast (LIVE AND REIGN) with Christ which is indicative of being RESURRECTED.....

IF the resurrection/change takes place BEFORE the events of REVELATION then WHEN are they resurrected seeing how there is only 1 (ONE)

and like you said...the SAINTS are identified as church members who have been saved, immersed and identified with the churches written to in the N.T. How can the beast/little horn make war with them and wear them out for 3.5 years if they have been taken out!

Jesus said that if he did not step in there would be NO FLESH LEFT ALIVE, but for the sake of the elect he will step in....NO WONDER PAUL writes...THEN we which are ALIVE AND REMAIN!

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Are these events the same . . . .

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [1 Thess. 4]

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh . . . And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. [Zechariah 14]

Or do they describe two different events?

That is what I am asking people.

 

[crossnote]

Using the common usage tag antichrist for the beast is used because of mans tradition, it is NOT what the Word states. In fact Rev 22.18 says:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and [SUP][i][/SUP]from the holy city, which are written in this book.

So why would you add the term antichrist to the beast, when Jesus himself says not to add to this book of prophecy? Call me a quibbler all you want to, but Jesus makes it pretty clear in The above verse.


Another example is the term, streets of Gold. There are no streets of Gold in Heaven, streets of Gold are found in the New Jerusalem, which sits on the new earth. The final destination for believers is not "Heaven" it is the new Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven. Yet we still hear it preached and sang that Heaven has streets of Gold but the Bible does not state this.

We agree I wont bow.

equally why would you take away or change the meaning of 1000 years. Look, no one is adding anything, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck admit it,...it's the antichrist.

 

[atwhatcost]

Im not sure it gets much worse than the nazi camps?

Yeah, actually. First and second century Rome and Alexandria, if you're Christian. Well, technically Alexandria Christians didn't have to suffer through two centuries, but only because they were wiped out completely quickly.

 

[crossnote]

SO he is coming back to space 1x and the earth 1x!?!?

Help me here bro, where do we met him in this super secret rapture you keep talking about?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

That is what I am asking people.

I don't believe they are . . . The same, that is . . .

 

[dcontroversal]

That is what I am asking people.

Hey Josh.....everything must jive with 1 coming......It states of Jesus

Was<--Past tense
Is<--Present tense
IS TO COME<---ONE coming (parousia) body presence of Christ and us being gathered together unto him....

7th trump answers all three....

Day of the Lord commences<--Jesus seizes control of all kingdoms of the earth as LORD
Day of Christ commences as he rewards the prophets, saints and those who fear in the clouds as Christ
Day of God commences as he pours out his wrath on unbelieving world gathered under the beast in his kingdom as GOD

Jesus is LORD, CHRIST and GOD

 

[crossnote]

Nope. In the famous words of Yoda, "There is another."

I'm not dispensationalist for the simple reason that God created time and space, lives outside of it, but in it too, (omnipresent) so exactly why would God set up "dispensations?" Didn't he have it set as planned before his first, "Let there be...?"

I am, very much a literalist. I take God at his word, unless otherwise notified. (Otherwise notified -- bad advice from Job's buddies and wife, and when Jesus said, "This is a parable.")

So, nope. Neither dispensational nor mill-anything.

I told you. I don't get it. This is what I mean when I say I don't get it, and there is no way anyone will get me to get it, because I don't particularly think any of this stuff is all that important. It gives me the same heebeegeebees I got when I realize my denomination split over something as silly as "When did God decide that Jesus would die on the cross?" (Supralapsarianism vs. infralapsarianism.) Does it matter? (Um, no. It really doesn't.)

ok rip out 1/3 of the bible since it deals with this stuff. And please don't ask me more questions dealing with this stuff since it isn't that important. Besides I don't like wasting my time posting to those who either don't care or like to play games...toying around.

 

[atwhatcost]

I think it isn't an option that we can or cannot take the time to notice the signs given. It is by the grace of God that He told us these things in His word. Without that knowledge we would not receive the warning. It's like the trumpet of warning given in Ezekiel 33:4-7
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

God wants us to be ready, and we should all carry the spiritual trumpet of warning. It really is a loving gesture according to God's will.

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." Luke 21:28

What if they aren't the signs you think they are? A very great tribulation happened along the Mediterranean Sea in the first and second century. Huge tribulations are happening today in different parts of the world.

So, what if those signs aren't what you think they are? And do you honestly need signs if you are ready? If you're not, shouldn't that be the focus? And, given we're never ready, shouldn't Jesus, not signs, be the focus?

This is my point. I don't deal with mill/trib/disp/rap/whatever because it's a huge waste of time consumed instead of dealing with the obvious -- God. And God in the here and now.

Everyone is so very sure they're right. Well, what does right get you? Any closer to God? Helping others? Any closer to God? His will? What does right get you? Not even a cup of coffee.

What does wrong get you? The same thing.

Seems like a good reason to bypass.

 

[Chica]

So I will ask what someone else did, Does Jesus come back 3x then?

This is what pre-trib doctrine seems to imply.

He came as a baby wrapped in swaddling clothes
He returns during the rapture
He returns for the Day of the Lord

This is not found in the scriptures.

He doesn't come back at the rapture, we go to meet Him in sky.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

That's showing a difference between believing Jews and non believing Jews...young un.

Read on....

Romans 9:6-9[SUP]6 [/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Promise of the Father is the seal of the Holy Spirit....nothing to do with flesh and blood, but rather the children of faith are counted for the seed.


Galatians 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.




[SUP][/SUP]

 

[Joshua_Generation]

He doesn't come back at the rapture, we go to meet Him in sky.

So does he come back with us later?

You are stating he will have come 3x then, once in the air and twice on earth? is that your doctrine?