Crossing the Red Sea

[Jeff_56]

I think it's Moses that tells Josh to 'choose men'... maybe Moses isn't a very good military guy... so yes, if the israelites are getting bad advice, then even a large force could be squandered fighting some small wilderness groups... then the stories would make sense, yes...

But God saw the number of troops as relevant because He punished Israel for not sending their whole army. He saw it as arrogance on their part.

Moses, Israel, ALWAYS won when YAHWEH said they would. the battle is YAHWEH'S.
When MOSES did what YAHWEH said, and if Israel didn't disobey, they won.
military cunning , numbers of men or horses, didn't matter.(and doesn't matter today,btw)
Israel won with 300 men against many thousands when they did as YAHWEH said to do(through MOSES and / or JOSHUA).
Sometimes, they won(like against 185K) without lifting a finger to fight. the battle is YAHWEH'S.

and if they disobeyed, they lost. or were punished. ("disciplined" may be more accurate sometimes).

 

[Bowhunter2394]

True #'s do mean something... but from a Supernatural Perspective, How many Angels does it take to BIND satan after the Return of Christ in Glory.? ------> 1<--------- Indeed... God will use #'s to His advantage.. but upon looking at His Sovereign Supernatural Omnipotence.... it just takes 1... just think what will be Done. when upon Armies and Armies of Elect Angels decscend upon this Earth. mmmmmmmm with their Commander! and His Elect. the Saints of God...

 

[Dan_473]

In Exodus 17 they defeat the Amalekites in a decisive victory. "And Joshua overwhelmed Amalek and his people with the sword." verse 13

very true! why, though, are the amelekites able to put up a good struggle for a while, given israel's overwhelming numbers? how is amelek able to get the upper hand when Moses' hands are down?

did israel send out only a small number? why would they do that? did God command it?

 

[Dan_473]

Moses, Israel, ALWAYS won when YAHWEH said they would. the battle is YAHWEH'S.
When MOSES did what YAHWEH said, and if Israel didn't disobey, they won.
military cunning , numbers of men or horses, didn't matter.(and doesn't matter today,btw)
Israel won with 300 men against many thousands when they did as YAHWEH said to do(through MOSES and / or JOSHUA).
Sometimes, they won(like against 185K) without lifting a finger to fight. the battle is YAHWEH'S.

and if they disobeyed, they lost. or were punished. ("disciplined" may be more accurate sometimes).

very true! I wonder why it took israel so long to defeat amelek? they have a large army, and God is helping them, it looks to me like...

 

[oldhermit]

very true! why, though, are the amelekites able to put up a good struggle for a while, given israel's overwhelming numbers? how is amelek able to get the upper hand when Moses' hands are down?

did israel send out only a small number? why would they do that? did God command it?

Moses command Joshua - "So Moses said to Joshua, Choose for us men, and go out and fight with Amalek. Tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the staff of God in my hand.” The text does not sat that Israel outnumbered the Amelakites, it only says they overwhelmed them. This does require numerical superiority nor does the text suggest this. As to why the sons of Israel only continued to win when Moses' hands were raised I am afraid the text does not really give us a reason. But, consider this if you will. Look at those who are present, Joshua is the commander of the armies of Israel and Aaron and Hur appear to be the highest authority figures in Israel just below Moses. Remember, the Priesthood has not yet been appointed. Hur is also a Levite the son of Caleb. Hur occupies quite an elevated position as a judge in Israel even after the appointing of the priesthood, 24:14. It is possible that he may have been set over the other judges that Moses appoints in chapter 18. He seems to be the third man in the chain of command in Israel. The significance of the holding up of Moses hands seems to be an act that confirms the absolute authority of Moss in Israel. This demonstration was for the benefit of the people. Sometimes we see God choosing to operate in certain ways that seem have no real meaning or connection to the event. Could God have given the victory without the raising of Moses hands? Of course! So, why does Israel prevail only so long as Moses hands are raised? This is to establish in the mind of Israel the God will only bless Israel through this man, not through Aaron, not through Hur, not through Joshua at this point but MOSES. He is the only connection they have to God. God is elevating Moses in the eyes of the people.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Moses command Joshua - "So Moses said to Joshua, Choose for us men, and go out and fight with Amalek. Tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the staff of God in my hand.” The text does not sat that Israle outnumbered the Amelakites, it only says they overwhelmed them. This does require numerical superiority not does the text suggest this. As to why the sons of Israel only continued to win when Moses' hands were raised I am afraid the text does not really give us a reason. But, consider this if you will. Look at those who are present, Joshua is the commander of the armies of Israel and Aaron and Hur appear to be the highest authority figures in Israel just below Moses. Remember, the Priesthood has not yet been appointed. Hur is also a Levite the son of Caleb. Hur occupies quite an elevated position as a judge in Israel even after the appointing of the priesthood, 24:14. It is possible that he may have been set over the other judges that Moses appoints in chapter 18. He seems to be the third man in the chain of command in Israel. The significance of the holding up of Moses hands seems to be an act that confirms the absolute authority in in Israel. This demonstration was for the benefit of the people. Sometimes we see God choosing to operate in certain ways that seem have no real meaning or connection to the event. Could God have given the victory without the raising of Moses hands? Of course! So, why does Israel prevail only so long as Moses hands are raised? This is to establish in the mind of Israel the God will only bless Israel through this man, not through Aaron, not through Hur, not through Joshua at this point but MOSES. He is the only connection they have to God. God is elevating Moses in the eyes of the people.

I agree 100% and Moses Pointed towards Christ, the Deliverer, a Spiritual Deliverance from Darkness to Light, as Moses Led them physically out of Egypt. indeed.. In Christ, its both Spiritual and Physical.. with a New Resurrected Body when He Returns.. indeed!

 

[valiant]

Moses, Israel, ALWAYS won when YAHWEH said they would. the battle is YAHWEH'S.
When MOSES did what YAHWEH said, and if Israel didn't disobey, they won.
military cunning , numbers of men or horses, didn't matter.(and doesn't matter today,btw)
Israel won with 300 men against many thousands when they did as YAHWEH said to do(through MOSES and / or JOSHUA).
Sometimes, they won(like against 185K) without lifting a finger to fight. the battle is YAHWEH'S.

and if they disobeyed, they lost. or were punished. ("disciplined" may be more accurate sometimes).

well they certainly lost at Ai because they were arrogant and did not take their full force.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Moses command Joshua - "So Moses said to Joshua, Choose for us men, and go out and fight with Amalek. Tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the staff of God in my hand.” The text does not sat that Israel outnumbered the Amelakites, it only says they overwhelmed them. This does require numerical superiority nor does the text suggest this. As to why the sons of Israel only continued to win when Moses' hands were raised I am afraid the text does not really give us a reason. But, consider this if you will. Look at those who are present, Joshua is the commander of the armies of Israel and Aaron and Hur appear to be the highest authority figures in Israel just below Moses. Remember, the Priesthood has not yet been appointed. Hur is also a Levite the son of Caleb. Hur occupies quite an elevated position as a judge in Israel even after the appointing of the priesthood, 24:14. It is possible that he may have been set over the other judges that Moses appoints in chapter 18. He seems to be the third man in the chain of command in Israel. The significance of the holding up of Moses hands seems to be an act that confirms the absolute authority of Moss in Israel. This demonstration was for the benefit of the people. Sometimes we see God choosing to operate in certain ways that seem have no real meaning or connection to the event. Could God have given the victory without the raising of Moses hands? Of course! So, why does Israel prevail only so long as Moses hands are raised? This is to establish in the mind of Israel the God will only bless Israel through this man, not through Aaron, not through Hur, not through Joshua at this point but MOSES. He is the only connection they have to God. God is elevating Moses in the eyes of the people.

and Paul even talks about 'being delivered from death' multiple Times in the New Testament, and even he beleived that He will yet' Deliver us'. if you read the Word, its Past, present and future tense, those in Christ are always Delivered unto Death, for Jesus's Sake, so that His life is manifested in our mortal flesh. this thru The Spirit of Christ.. indeed.. Christ the Deliverer.. delivered out of the mouth of the Lion, that is satan, who is active and roams and prowls, He targets the Elect of God. those with Christ's Testimony.. indeed.



But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:


Who Delivered us from so Great a death, and doth Deliver: in whom we trust that He will yet Deliver us;

 

[valiant]

Moses command Joshua - "So Moses said to Joshua, Choose for us men, and go out and fight with Amalek. Tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the staff of God in my hand.” The text does not sat that Israel outnumbered the Amelakites, it only says they overwhelmed them. This does require numerical superiority nor does the text suggest this. As to why the sons of Israel only continued to win when Moses' hands were raised I am afraid the text does not really give us a reason. But, consider this if you will. Look at those who are present, Joshua is the commander of the armies of Israel and Aaron and Hur appear to be the highest authority figures in Israel just below Moses. Remember, the Priesthood has not yet been appointed. Hur is also a Levite the son of Caleb. Hur occupies quite an elevated position as a judge in Israel even after the appointing of the priesthood, 24:14. It is possible that he may have been set over the other judges that Moses appoints in chapter 18. He seems to be the third man in the chain of command in Israel. The significance of the holding up of Moses hands seems to be an act that confirms the absolute authority of Moss in Israel. This demonstration was for the benefit of the people. Sometimes we see God choosing to operate in certain ways that seem have no real meaning or connection to the event. Could God have given the victory without the raising of Moses hands? Of course! So, why does Israel prevail only so long as Moses hands are raised? This is to establish in the mind of Israel the God will only bless Israel through this man, not through Aaron, not through Hur, not through Joshua at this point but MOSES. He is the only connection they have to God. God is elevating Moses in the eyes of the people.

Well I think that the message was that Israel would only prevail if they looked to GOD. It was God alone Who could give the victory.

 

[oldhermit]

well they certainly lost at Ai because they were arrogant and did not take their full force.

Valiant, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about because you simply do not know your Bible. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself. Perhaps you should try reading the biblical account before making these absurd comments.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Want to thank old hermit for this thread, the Exodus from Egypt is 'so so alive to me today' from a spiritual perspective because of my families background in 'sorcery witchcraft', it seems like Daily monthly yearly is a deliverance out of their hands, as they truly do seek to discredit the Testimony of Grace in my life, these professing christians, and overtake me in what I do, what is Taught thru me, and bring me back under behavior med control.... those around me, I didnt have to teach that these people did this, they saw it.. lozl.. so somebody is Helping them to understand what I already know... the depths of the Wicked one.. I trust Christ today, to deliver me them out of their hands again.. as they seek .. to gain an upper hand in my life.. lolz... those who tried to do that before. they were destroyed, because of their corruption, which was envy and jealousy , against the Spirit of Grace.. the Exodus is so ALIVE TODAY.. indeed! thank you old hermit! and I thank the Man Upstairs, cause He truly the One in Control!

 

[oldhermit]

Want to thank old hermit for this thread, the Exodus from Egypt is 'so so alive to me today' from a spiritual perspective because of my families background in 'sorcery witchcraft', it seems like Daily monthly yearly is a deliverance out of their hands, as they truly do seek to discredit the Testimony of Grace in my life, these professing christians, and overtake me in what I do, what is Taught thru me, and bring me back under behavior med control.... those around me, I didnt have to teach that these people did this, they saw it.. lozl.. so somebody is Helping them to understand what I already know... the depths of the Wicked one.. I trust Christ today, to deliver me them out of their hands again.. as they seek .. to gain an upper hand in my life.. lolz... those who tried to do that before. they were destroyed, because of their corruption, which was envy and jealousy , against the Spirit of Grace.. the Exodus is so ALIVE TODAY.. indeed! thank you old hermit! and I thank the Man Upstairs, cause He truly the One in Control!

Thank you Bowhunter. I'm happy this thread has been of some help to you and I have appreciated you comments and observations.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Thank you Bowhunter. I'm happy this thread has been of some help to you and I have appreciated you comments and observations.

I know your knowledge in the Word and Wisdom and I respect that.. The Word tells me to respect that.. respect an Elder and I do.. thank you..

In Christ, Travis

 

[valiant]

Valiant, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about because you simply do not know your Bible. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself. Perhaps you should try reading the biblical account before making these absurd comments.

Read Joshua 7.2-5 LOL Or have you cut it out of your Bible?

 

[oldhermit]

Read Joshua 7.2-5 LOL Or have you cut it out of your Bible?

Like I said Valiant, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about because you simply do not know your Bible. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself. Perhaps you should try reading the biblical account before making these absurd comments.

 

[mikeuk]

Valiant, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about because you simply do not know your Bible. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself. Perhaps you should try reading the biblical account before making these absurd comments.

Well said.

 

[valiant]

Like I said Valiant, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about because you simply do not know your Bible. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself. Perhaps you should try reading the biblical account before making these absurd comments.

it seems to me that you are so prejudiced that you have lost your ability to be honest. Read Joshua 7.2-5

anyone else can read it and see how dishonest you are being I used to respect you but you have lost all my respect.

 

[oldhermit]

it seems to me that you are so prejudiced that you have lost your ability to be honest. Read Joshua 7.2-5

I know what it says. Suppose you read the rest of the chapter to learn WHY Israel lost the first battle of Ai and stop this nonsense. It has absolutely nothing to do with the number of troops taken into battle.

 

[valiant]

I know what it says. Suppose you read the rest of the chapter to learn WHY Israel lost the first battle of Ai and stop this nonsense. It has absolutely nothing to do with the number of troops taken into battle.

Of course it has otherwise when they had dealt with Achan they would again have sent a small contingent to prove God was now with them. It was because of Achan's sin that God allowed them to wrongly send a small unit to their defeat. Are you suggesting that God could not have given that small unit victory? But God later said TAKE ALL THE FIGHTING MEN WITH YOU. Why didn't God say 'take the same amount of men with you and see what happens? Because He was angry at Israel's previous casual attitude. You need to read with a bit more discernment. But I guess your mind is stuck in a rut.

And do you really think he took 600,000 men up the small pass that led to Ai? wow it would have taken yonks.

 

[oldhermit]

Of course it has otherwise when they had dealt with Achan they would again have sent a small contingent to prove God was now with them. It was because of Achan's sin that God allowed them to wrongly send a small unit to their defeat. Are you suggesting that God could not have given that small unit victory? But God later said TAKE ALL THE FIGHTING MEN WITH YOU. Why? Because He was angry at Israel's previous casual attitude. You need to read with a bit more discernment. But I guess your mind is stuck in a rut.

And do you really think he took 600,000 men up the small pass that led to Ai? wow it would have taken yonks.

They would not have won the first battle of Ai even if they had taken 6,000,000 or 600,000,000 troops because Achin had violated the prohibitions from God regarding the city. Suppose you show me where God told them to take all the fighting men with them in connection with the battle of Ai. In Chapter 8 when they again attacked Ai Joshua selected only 30,000 men out of the total number of soldiers and defeated Ai. I do not understand why you persist in arguing about things of which you clearly know nothing. Please stop wasting my time.