Obsession, depression, possession, are as real today as it was in yesteryears. To blame demonic influence for these things and self prescribed a needed deliverance is not scriptural. No where do I see where Jesus is asked by anyone to deliver them from demonic affliction.
I do see however Jesus being led to people that are affected.
Our flesh constantly wars with the spirit because it lives by the 5 senses we were born with. When these senses our not stimulated to our fleshly satisfaction the war begins. Addiction, lust, hatred, ect. It demands to be fed.
Jesus said "we must
be born again. When we are born again that just doesn't mean our view points have changed and we choose christ as truth.
We are given a new heart, a new hope, a new purpose, and even a new place to reside....the kingdom. These things are real and made manifest by the Holy Spirit which now also abides in you.
These are spiritual things that are but are yet to come.
Possession is when a evil spirit enters in and prohibits a person of free choice consuming it's host with evil thoughts and actions to pre occupy but never satisfy the fleshy desires .....imo. which can be only discerned by the holy spirit.
So how can one know to go to Christ when they are not given a choice?........just my opinion.
I've been corrected before so feel free....lol.
Potter
since you do not mind being corrected, here is an explanation of why it is not that accurate to say people are possessed and back it up with a parable that actually does not say what you want it to say
people continue to say demon possessed, because most translations use that word and it only exacerbates the misunderstanding of what scripture is actually saying to us. (I'm not taking the time to write all that EXPERTS say regarding the translation, but
HERE is an informative and lengthy article that explains far more than I have the time to write or even care to write to illustrate why you are incorrect. I have included an excerpt in this thread.)
yes...Jesus said that when a demon leaves he goes and find 7 others and coming back, finding the 'house' swept and clean...empty...they go back and the latter condition is worse than before. understand what that means..house means person. if a person is saved and they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them they are not empty. you cannot make a sweeping doctrine out of one example, even if Jesus gave it (it's not the only thing He said regarding demons and Paul's letters as well as examples that follow the gospels are chock full of information regarding our spiritual life AFTER salvation)
further, you left out the END of Jesus' illustration which TOTALLY changes the story:
That is how it will be with this wicked generation.
Jesus was NOT talking about how demons behave in general, but how they operate with the unregenerate.
Proper Translation of ΔΑΙΜΟΝΙΣΟΜΑΙ
What is the proper translation of δαιμονίζομαι? Should it be translated “demon possessed” or “demonized”? Some have argued that “demon possessed” is a mistranslation of δαιμονίζομαι. This argument is not limited to charismatics. Alfred Edersheim (1883), who was a cessationist, also believed that “demonize” was a better rendering of δαιμονίζομαι than “demon possessed.” What reasons are given for translating δαιμονίζομαι “demonized”?
Reasons for the “Demonized” Translation
- The Greek word for “possession” is never used in conjunction with demons. They argue that the word “demon possession” is not in the Bible. They state that the word does not come from the Bible but from Josephus.
- Satan does not have possession or ownership of people, only God does. Believers cannot be owned by Satan because they have been bought with a price (I Corinthians 7:23). Christians have the Holy Spirit and cannot be possessed by demons.
- The issue is not ownership but control. To be possessed with a demon means to be under the power (which means influence) of a demon, but it does NOT mean that the demons owns the person. Like being under the influence of alcohol, the more you drink (or get yourself into bondage), the more you come under its influence.
- The word “possess” has many modern connotations which are inaccurate. One immediately thinks of the 1973 movie The Exorcist. Therefore, they prefer the term “demonized” to “demon-possessed” and argue that it is a much better translation of the Greek.
Obsession, depression, possession, are as real today as it was in yesteryears. To blame demonic influence for these things and self prescribed a needed deliverance is not scriptural.
baloney. again, how about Job? or for that matter Paul? according to you, they would have had to be POSSESSED in order to have any involvement with demons...but that is not what the text is saying...that is what YOU are saying and which you have arrived at, by erroneously creating a doctrine out of a parable Jesus spoke and that He spoke concerning THOSE WHO ARE UNREGENERATE...HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH CONVERSION TO CHRIST...DISREGARD GOD etc etc
I have taken some time to show you where you are wrong...what I wrote above, are the conclusions of people who study scripture in the original languages as well as including the ENTIRE parable of Jesus and not just the part you seem to think is conclusive to your idea, which does a disservice to those who are harassed or bothered or similar.
you cannot explain Job or Paul or even Jesus being bothered by the devil, with a simple they were possessed.
I hope you see that. most people do.
since Jesus has ascended, He has left us to do what He did...and counselling and praying with and for those who are afflicted with the demonic is a part of what He did.
deception is, IMO, the main tool of demons and we are warned many times over to not be caught in the devils' schemes...that does not mean possession...so again, you cannot take one example...which is actually part of a greater whole...and ascribe it to anything and everything concerning demons and then tell everyone that if they are oppressed or depressed that is just too bad...you say that is not scriptural...forget the conclusion to Jesus parable...do not consider He was speaking about the unregenerate and voila..a whole new doctrine is born and totally misleading and about as wrong as it can be
plenty more I and prob others could say regarding the above but you seem stuck in what you believe...if not, if the above shines a little light, good...but if not...I will not be feeling the 'need' to address it again with you, to make myself clear, you can respond as you will but I have provided more than enough to make the case against what you say so further debating will not do anything further but simply and quite truthfully, irritate me
if someone provides proof that what I provide is wrong...other than twisting scripture or proving Jesus parable was meant for Christians, then I will pay attention
thanks
