Deut 7:12-11:25 Moses speaks on OBEDIENCE to the 2nd generation

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gb9

Senior Member
#21
Jan 18, 2011
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#21
and how did law keeping and works salvationism work out for the Pharisees? you know, the ones that killed Jesus. they were ultra-lawkeepers.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#22
Mar 3, 2011
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#22
disciplemike said:
It sounds like God does expect us to obey His commands.
This goes against the popular opinion in this forum, in my opinion.
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That seems to me to be because most people here are Calvinistic in some way or another. Predestination and all that stuff.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#23
Mar 3, 2011
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#23
gb9 said:
and how did law keeping and works salvationism work out for the Pharisees? you know, the ones that killed Jesus. they were ultra-lawkeepers.
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They were like Paul, blameless according to the letter. But they did not truly keep the law that is why. They did it by works and not by faith. If they had done it by faith. They would have been ok and would have recognised Jesus as the Messiah.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

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#24
Jul 1, 2016
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#24
gb9 said:
and how did law keeping and works salvationism work out for the Pharisees? you know, the ones that killed Jesus. they were ultra-lawkeepers.
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no, no, no.
The Messiah pointed it out clearly.
Read the Bible.
Yeshua said that the Pharisees were more interested in their traditions than the commandments of God.
That was the real Pharisee problem.
Should I post the verses?
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#25
Jan 18, 2011
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#25
I have read the word through many times. I know the verses, I just read them a few days ago. but I do not read them with Hebrew roots glasses on. the Pharisees were strict law keepers. as well as oral traditions handed down through the ages.

the Bible is about Jesus, not to point us to the law of Moses, which once again, the gentiles never had. ACTS 15
 
BenAvraham

BenAvraham

Senior Member
#26
Aug 30, 2015
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#26
Yes, I have received ALL that Messiah has to offer, He is my Goel (Redeemer) and LORD. He completed/fulfilled ALL the Torah
The Torah commandments were never meant to save anyone, only to reveal our sinful nature and point us to Yeshua, who completed all the Torah, when we couldn't and neither could the Israelites. We are saved by FAITH in order to do good works, follow Adonai's commandments, the ones that we are able to follow in this day and age.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

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#27
Jul 1, 2016
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#27
gb9 said:
I have read the word through many times. I know the verses, I just read them a few days ago. but I do not read them with Hebrew roots glasses on. the Pharisees were strict law keepers.
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Can you try to read it again?
Yeshua told them they were laying aside God's commandments in order to keep their own traditions, (commandments of men).


Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mark 7:7-8 (KJV, MBM)

If you want to follow Messiah, great!
Lay aside all the junk we have been taught and learn for yourself.

 
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gb9

Senior Member
#28
Jan 18, 2011
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#28
and I invite you to re-read the Word and see that faith and belief in Christ is all one needs to be saved, not the Mosaic law. lay aside the Hebrew roots junk!!
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

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#29
Jul 1, 2016
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#29
gb9 said:
and I invite you to re-read the Word and see that faith and belief in Christ is all one needs to be saved, not the Mosaic law. lay aside the Hebrew roots junk!!
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Salvation is by faith in the redemptive work in the Messiah.
No one said you need the law to be saved.

Now, back to the point.
You said the Pharisees were "strict law keepers".
I showed you where Yeshua said they lay aside the commandments of God in order to keep their own tradition.
What do you think about that passage?
Do you see my point, brother?
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#30
Jan 18, 2011
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#30
Pharisee- a member of ancient jewish sect distinguished by strict observation of traditional and written law- Webster's dictionary.

think i'll believe that source, not yours!
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#32
Jan 18, 2011
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#32
disciplemike said:
Salvation is by faith in the redemptive work in the Messiah.
No one said you need the law to be saved.

Now, back to the point.
You said the Pharisees were "strict law keepers".
I showed you where Yeshua said they lay aside the commandments of God in order to keep their own tradition.
What do you think about that passage?
Do you see my point, brother?
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I do kind of see your point. let's agree to disagree, and move on.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

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#33
Jul 1, 2016
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#33
gb9 said:
Pharisee- a member of ancient jewish sect distinguished by strict observation of traditional and written law- Webster's dictionary.

think i'll believe that source, not yours!
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wow. you take Webster over what the Messiah says?
amazing.
how hard-hearted do you have to be?

please understand, we have been taught all these years how the Pharisees kept all the law and it turned out bad for them.
That is not what Scripture teaches.
The Pharisees were keeping all the man-made laws that they attached to Torah, even to the extent they were putting their laws in place of God's commandments.
This is what Scripture teaches.
Come away from the lies.
 
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Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#34
Mar 12, 2015
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#34
Hello gb9,

The problem with disciplemike is that he will say the following, but at the same time he contradicts it by continuing to promote the law.

Salvation is by faith in the redemptive work in the Messiah.
No one said you need the law to be saved.
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gb9

Senior Member
#35
Jan 18, 2011
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#35
disciplemike said:
wow. you take Webster over what the Messiah says?
amazing.
how hard-hearted do you have to be?
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I am not going to a argue a non-issue. the Pharisees were, at least in their own minds, LAW KEEPERS.

I am not dis-believing Christ, just you. you are twisting the Gospels to point back to the law, which gentiles were never under
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#36
Jul 1, 2016
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#36
gb9 said:
I am not going to a argue a non-issue. the Pharisees were, at least in their own minds, LAW KEEPERS.

I am not dis-believing Christ, just you. you are twisting the Gospels to point back to the law, which gentiles were never under
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your doctrine if full of holes my friend.
if gentiles were never under the law, why would they need a Savior?
I don't blame you. It is what we have been taught.
It is no different now than way back then, the leaders have perverted the message.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#37
Jul 1, 2016
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#37
Ahwatukee said:
Hello gb9,

The problem with disciplemike is that he will say the following, but at the same time he contradicts it by continuing to promote the law.




[/COLOR]
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and I will continue to promote the perfect law of God, along with the redemptive work of Yeshua HaMashiach, for the rest of my days.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#38
Jan 18, 2011
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#38
disciplemike said:
your doctrine if full of holes my friend.
if gentiles were never under the law, why would they need a Savior?
I don't blame you. It is what we have been taught.
It is no different now than way back then, the leaders have perverted the message.
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taught by Paul and Acts 15, these leaders??
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#39
Jul 1, 2016
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#39
gb9 said:
taught by Paul and Acts 15, these leaders??
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what about it? don't be ambiguous. If you have something to say.
is acts 15 teaching that the gentiles were never under law, as you say?
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#40
Jan 18, 2011
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#40
disciplemike said:
what about it? don't be ambiguous. If you have something to say.
is acts 15 teaching that the gentiles were never under law, as you say?
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Acts 15 says that gentiles were not , and not to be, under the law.
 
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