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Mar 8, 2016
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#21
To those who believe that faith alone (Sola Fide) justifies our salvation:

Nowhere in the bible does it state faith "alone" justifies, and this new doctrine was not heard of before the 16th century. Why did the Protestant reformers propose it and what authority gave it to them?Consider the verse, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in. Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me." Matthew 25:34-36. Are these not examples of good works? Why would Our Lord give them so much emphasis if only faith was of importance?Consider the verses, "And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith to him: All these I have kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me? Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me." Matt 19:16-21.*Are the above verses not filled with good works? How much more proof from Scripture do we need to show that Our Lord commanded us to do good works for our salvation?Consider the verse, "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works." Matthew 16:27. Again here we have more proof that good works are required of us.Consider the verse, "And every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labor." 1 Corinthians 3:8. Again this clearly does NOT refer to faith alone, but to labor, which is works.Consider the verse, "And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." 1 Corinthians 13:2 (St Paul). What is charity other than helping the needy? Charity is clearly considered among good works. And in the same Chapter we also see the verse, "And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity." (1 Corinthians 13:13).*This clearly puts charity BEFORE faith, so to say "faith alone" is all that is required of us is clearly contrary to Scripture.Consider the verse, "Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" James 2:24. How much more plain can it be said that faith alone is not enough for our salvation?Consider the verse, "What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?" James 2:14. And we see several verses later that the answer to this question is NO.Consider the verse, "So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself." James 2:17. No explanation is needed for this verse!Consider the verse, "But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith." James 2:18. Another extremely obvious verse that proves our point on the subject.Consider the verses, "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?" James 2:20-21. No explanation is needed for these verses.Consider the verse, "For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead." James 2:26. How can the Protestant reformers claim faith is sufficient when we read a verse like this with such obvious meaning?And finally consider the verse, "Wherefore, brethren, labor the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election." 2 Peter 1:10In summary, justification by faith alone has overwhelming opposition in Scripture. Some Protestants have been known to reference other verses from Scripture in an attempt to show that works are NOT required for our salvation. However if one looks at verses that appear to speak negatively about works, they are clearly referring to works that glorify men and not God. Here we agree; works done to please men do not help with attaining our salvation.
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#22
the church was corrupt long before it became catholic. its unfair to blame all the problems we have today on catholics.
Paul said soon after he departed, but it depends on how you are looking at catholic, whether as the whole church or the sect because they will say out the one side of their mouth its the whole but then will then go on about their sect. So even in what you just said, blaming catholics can be shown two ways, in the church as a whole (universal) or the sect (R Catholic)

Divisions of men
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#23
Welp I left CF to get away from the Catholic stuff for awhile because it bores me, and not much into the whole cannon deal (and all the other dead horses) so I unsubscribe, its the same thing on repeat (again, and again , and again)

Glad to be free of it
 
Mar 8, 2016
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#24
Why is it "RC's" go back to the time of Christ but are hated and shunned so much? Were you raised Catholic and left because you disagreed? Whats your background?
 
Mar 8, 2016
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#25
I guess liberal spirituality is Christianity. Everyone is there own pope and lets twist and wrest scripture to our own destruction together!
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
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#26
It is illogical to think that Our Lord would expect us all to interpret Scripture on our own with no judge to turn to since this will always lead to endless disagreements.
Exactly. That's why many of us rely on the Holy Spirit.

Next.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
#27
The Bible was put together by the Catholic Church in the councils of Hippo (393AD) and the 3rd Council of Carthage (397AD), when according to Protestant reformers, She was still the true Church.

It is illogical to think that Our Lord wpuld expect us all to interpret Scripture on our own with no judge to turn to since this will always lead to endless disagreements. There can be countless wrong answers but only one right answer.

A full reading of the Bible and not taking anything out of context will lead you to the "Catholo" or Universal Faith. Because that's where it came from.

If it is true that the Scriptures are so easy to understand, what is the use of the commentaries made by countless PROTESTant ministers, and if it is not so easy to understand who has the Apostolic authority given by God on Faith and Morals?

Not for over 1,000 years after these early councils was the printing press invented (~1450 AD). Bible manuscripts were quite rare and costly before the printing press came about so who was the authoritative figure to preach to the faithful? The Catholic Church.

Every PROTESTant denomination was started by a human being somewhere who had a problem with the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church has its own issues. For all you "Catholics" plz visit Novus Ordo Watch: Exposing the False Church of Vatican II and find out why the Catholic Church hasnt had a valid pope since 1958. And people wonder why there are sex scandals and why so many people leave the church. Thanks :)
I think you need a little fact checking. If you want to believe that, you might also want to explain. Why they left out the apocrypha for 1,500 years.
 
Mar 8, 2016
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#28
And like a ship being steered by countless individuals who are "right" where are you going?
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
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#29
And like a ship being steered by countless individuals who are "right" where are you going?
I just said the Holy Spirit is "steering my ship", so I know where I am and where I'm going.
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
#30
To those who believe that faith alone (Sola Fide) justifies our salvation:

Nowhere in the bible does it state faith "alone" justifies

"Therefore being
justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Rom 5:1

"Much more then, being now
justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Rom 5:9

More specifically, putting Rom 5:1 & Rom 5:9 together:

"
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through
faith in his blood Rom 3:25

For salvation, we are justified by faith in His blood alone!

 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#32
And they prevented the masses from reading the Bible in their own tongue so Maryland passed the Old Deluder Act of 1647 to teach people how to read the Bible because the Catholic Church wasn't doing it for the masses.

The Old Deluder Act (1647)
From
Records of the Governor and Company of the Massachusetts Bay in New England (1853), II: 203

It being one chief project of that old deluder, Satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the Scriptures, as in former times by keeping them in an unknown tongue, so in these latter times by persuading from the use of tongues, that so that at least the true sense and meaning of the original might be clouded and corrupted with false glosses of saint-seeming deceivers; and to the end that learning may not be buried in the grave of our forefathers, in church and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors.
deluder.html

It being one chief project of that old deluder, Satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the Scriptures, as in former times by keeping them in an unknown tongue, so in these latter times by persuading from the use of tongues, that so that at least the true sense and meaning of the original might be clouded and corrupted with love and false glosses of saint-seeming deceivers; and to the end that learning may not be buried in the grave of our forefathers, in church and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors.
It is therefore ordered that every township in this jurisdiction, after the Lord hath increased them to fifty households shall forthwith appoint one within their town to teach all such children as shall resort to him to write and read, whose wages shall be paid either by the parents or masters of such children, or by the inhabitants in general, by way of supply, as the major part of those that order the prudentials of the town shall appoint; provided those that send their children be not oppressed by paying much more than they can have them taught for in other towns.
And it is further ordered, that when any town shall increase to the number of one hundred families or householders, they shall set up a grammar school, the master thereof being able to instruct youth so far as they may be fitted for the university, provided that if any town neglect the performance hereof above one year that every such town shall pay 5 pounds to the next school till they shall perform this order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_School_Laws
 

blessedjohn80

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2016
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#34
All of these facts about the history of the Bible is fascinating and what is even more fascinating is how God used all those people to put together God's Holy scripture. I'm not sure about the details but from my recollection, even after all these church leaders back then divided and created their own set of theories about the Bible, they all referred to the same Bible. The people changed but the Bible stayed intact. That's why constantly, out of all the religions the world has today, the Bible is still the only one that is being debated about. So many trying to dispute its veracity. The devil knows it. But it's power is undeniable. It is the only reliable evidence that God exists and His great love for us. Just amazing! God loves us! Peace!
 
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