Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Sounds to me like you have a big issue with the Big Guy you always believe. 
Better take it up with him.
Matt 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you . Away from me, you evildoers!'
NIV
I mean what part of "never" don't you get? Or maybe we have another huge theological problem -- this one with the divinity of Christ. Can the Son of God be fully God if he isn't omniscient -- even in his preincarnate state and post-resurrection, glorified state? Or how 'bout this "novel" idea: You don't have the first clue of what scripture means when it says that God [fore]knew people?
Better take it up with him. Matt 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you . Away from me, you evildoers!'
NIV
I mean what part of "never" don't you get? Or maybe we have another huge theological problem -- this one with the divinity of Christ. Can the Son of God be fully God if he isn't omniscient -- even in his preincarnate state and post-resurrection, glorified state? Or how 'bout this "novel" idea: You don't have the first clue of what scripture means when it says that God [fore]knew people?
Good. Then explain the simple truth of the Trinity...or the simple truth of Creation Ex Nihilo...or the simple truth of the Virgin Birth...or the simple truth of Christ's Resurrection from the dead. C'mon, don't be shy. Come and expound on the vast treasures of your knowledge, wisdom and understanding of the God that scripture says is incomparable to anyone or anything in this created universe. Please don't leave us in suspense.
Everyone can HEAR because those who killed Stephen purposefully STOPPED their ears. That means they were hearing until they no longer wanted to. You obviously are void about Biblical Truth.
54 Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him
57 But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him
They could HEAR and also could STOP their ears.
EVERYONE can HEAR the GOSPEL!
54 Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him
57 But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him
They could HEAR and also could STOP their ears.
EVERYONE can HEAR the GOSPEL!
You don't read too swell, do you? I agree that everyone can hear the OUTWARD call of the Gospel; but only those who have also received the INNER, EFFECTUAL call will believe in their heart. Picture Jesus CALLING Lazarus from his tomb, and Lazarus responding in the only way he could. Did Lazarus stop up his ears and refuse to come out of the tomb? Likewise, the elect have been saved by the very same resurrection power that raised Lazarus from his tomb (Eph 1:19-20).
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Hey, you're the one who can't reconcile the two contradictions. YOUR Messiah clearly said that on judgment day very many people are going to be told by Jesus that he NEVER knew them. Yet, you say that God foreknew every person in the universe. This is problem number 1. And it's huge also because of its theological implications. How can Jesus be the very God of God if he isn't omniscient?
Problem number 2 is that if you're right and God foreknew each and every person in the universe, then according to Rom 8:28-30, everyone in the universe will be saved since everyone God foreknew will wind up being justified and ultimately glorified by Him.
And now because you have become ensnared and entangled in the web of deceitfulness YOU have spun by your fanciful interpretations, you're waiting for me to bail you out? You have so mangled and tortured scripture beyond recognition, yet you want me to straighten out your mess? You're another "learned" one on this thread, aren't you? You have been immersed in the scriptures since the tender age of 6 years old, haven't you? Yet, you can't extricate yourself from these contradictions your interpretations present? And if you can't, then I can only infer that YOUR god CAN lie! He can contradict himself, after all! Your ongoing voluminous silence tells me, thus far, that you're willing to live with this inescapable conclusion.
Since you're such a big believer in the mighty power of man's free will and, therefore, of man's self-sufficiency you need to get busy with a SELF-rescue operation. Don't look to me to pull YOUR bacon out of the fire!
Problem number 2 is that if you're right and God foreknew each and every person in the universe, then according to Rom 8:28-30, everyone in the universe will be saved since everyone God foreknew will wind up being justified and ultimately glorified by Him.
And now because you have become ensnared and entangled in the web of deceitfulness YOU have spun by your fanciful interpretations, you're waiting for me to bail you out? You have so mangled and tortured scripture beyond recognition, yet you want me to straighten out your mess? You're another "learned" one on this thread, aren't you? You have been immersed in the scriptures since the tender age of 6 years old, haven't you? Yet, you can't extricate yourself from these contradictions your interpretations present? And if you can't, then I can only infer that YOUR god CAN lie! He can contradict himself, after all! Your ongoing voluminous silence tells me, thus far, that you're willing to live with this inescapable conclusion.
Since you're such a big believer in the mighty power of man's free will and, therefore, of man's self-sufficiency you need to get busy with a SELF-rescue operation. Don't look to me to pull YOUR bacon out of the fire!
BUT they didn't did they!? You know why? Thy could NOT without the inner call (i.e. irresistible grace)! The could not believe because Jesus was not willing to grant them life that would have raised them from their spiritual tombs and empowered them to believe (Jn 5:21). Nor were they chosen of God to enter his courts and to live with him for all eternity (Ps 65:4a).
How different their spiritual situation and eternal destiny was from the Thessalonians whom God chose to save and appointed to be saved!
1 Thess 5:9-10
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
KJV
And,
2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 And it was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NASB
It's God's GRACE or LACK THEREOF that separates the wheat from the chaff --that determines whether one responds positively to the gospel or negatively. Grace is the DIFFERENCE! And notice how salvation always involves two components to that Grace: Empowerment by the Spirit for the purpose of Faith in the [Gospel] Truth. These two elements together invariably will produce the New Birth from above.
And lastly, notice for whom Christ died! He died for US, which I suppose you will pervert to mean the entire world!?
How different their spiritual situation and eternal destiny was from the Thessalonians whom God chose to save and appointed to be saved!
1 Thess 5:9-10
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
KJV
And,
2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 And it was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NASB
It's God's GRACE or LACK THEREOF that separates the wheat from the chaff --that determines whether one responds positively to the gospel or negatively. Grace is the DIFFERENCE! And notice how salvation always involves two components to that Grace: Empowerment by the Spirit for the purpose of Faith in the [Gospel] Truth. These two elements together invariably will produce the New Birth from above.
And lastly, notice for whom Christ died! He died for US, which I suppose you will pervert to mean the entire world!?
Prov 1:22
22 "How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?
NIV
So, I take it that in the absence of the term "Trinity" in the bible you are not a trinitarian? Or in the absence of the term "incarnation", you categorically reject the divinity of Christ? Or in the absence of the phrase "perspicuity of scripture", you must believe God is the author of mass confusion? Are you and your new found buddy so utterly and hopelessly naive that you believe a doctrine is only valid in scripture if the Word of God literally assigned specific term or phrase for it?
Such bible scholars and intellectual giants are this forum's version of the Laurel and Hardy team.
22 "How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?
NIV
So, I take it that in the absence of the term "Trinity" in the bible you are not a trinitarian? Or in the absence of the term "incarnation", you categorically reject the divinity of Christ? Or in the absence of the phrase "perspicuity of scripture", you must believe God is the author of mass confusion? Are you and your new found buddy so utterly and hopelessly naive that you believe a doctrine is only valid in scripture if the Word of God literally assigned specific term or phrase for it?
Such bible scholars and intellectual giants are this forum's version of the Laurel and Hardy team.