Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?

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PaulThomson

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He did function as God, forgiving the sins of people he didn't know. (unlike people forgiving each other when friends sin/offend each other). The kind of forgiving he did was something only done by God functioning as God.
Did Jesus ever say, "I forgive you of your sins?" He declared the forgiveness of His Father to people. "Your sins are forgiven you."
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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I had to think about this one as I agree Jesus (and even us now) have the Holy Spirit in a way Adam did not. Yet if the purpose of the Spirit is to keep us from sin, then He isn't doing a great job from our perspective. I would argue having the Spirit doesn't make it any easier to obey God so I'm not sure that is truly an advantage in respect to making it easier to live for God the Father.

The reason why it isn't any easier having the Holy Spirit to helps us obey and keep from sin is because God hasn't taken away our free will. The Bible says that we can grieve the Holy Spirit, showing that it is possible to resist His work in us. This shows us that the Holy Spirit (and God the Father and the Lord Jesus) will not ever force us to do anything. We must be willing to submit to God in order for Him to work in us.

The Lord Jesus showed that it is possible to fully submit to the Holy Spirit which should be a great encouragement to us.


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Mar 7, 2024
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You are making virtue-signalling excuses for the ignorance of God that Calvinism imparts to its victims.
Why don't you defend the charges, instead of resorting to the lowest common denominator. Let me guess you cand defend your false doctrine so you attack the the witness. You show no fear of God and your pride is highly offensive to God
 

Cameron143

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Not true, He had no advantage over Adam. Jesus done the work of salvation as an ordinary man, He never cheated people to fake pain and stuff. He felt those nails going through the same as Adam would.

Please state the context before you make blanket statements, which others are bound to misunderstand.
The context is this thread. And if you knew the power of the Spirit, you would understand what an incredible advantage Jesus had in this regard.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Not sure why you cited John 5:19 everyone knows that the Father sent Jesus to purchase redemption for His elect.
This is what Jesus said Charlie


Luke 5:32

New International Version



32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
 
Mar 7, 2024
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The context is this thread. And if you knew the power of the Spirit, you would understand what an incredible advantage Jesus had in this regard.
OK, so you think Jesus cheated and pretended to feel pain and he cried crocodile tears and He faked His hunger for 40 days, while He feasted on Scotch Fillet Stake while nobody was watching.
Nah, that just doesn't line up with Gods Word.
 
Mar 7, 2024
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This is what Jesus said Charlie


Luke 5:32

New International Version



32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Why would He call he righteous, who would He suffer and die for the righteous. Everybody knows the righteous don't need salvation, they are already just. Only sinners need salvation, so He came to save sinners.

How simple do you need scripture to be, it doesn't get any more simple.

But you just forgot one small insignificant detail, the problem Jesus has is righteous people don't exist. So He was saying I didn't come to save the tooth fairy, as that would be really dumb. God is not dumb, He's actually very intelligent so He wouldn't suffer for fictitious characters
 

Cameron143

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OK, so you think Jesus cheated and pretended to feel pain and he cried crocodile tears and He faked His hunger for 40 days, while He feasted on Scotch Fillet Stake while nobody was watching.
Nah, that just doesn't line up with Gods Word.
This is a strange response to what I wrote. I don't believe any of those things. Like I said, you don't really understand the power of the Spirit.
 

sawdust

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Feb 12, 2024
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Darwin, NT
He did function as God, forgiving the sins of people he didn't know. (unlike people forgiving each other when friends sin/offend each other). The kind of forgiving he did was something only done by God functioning as God.
From where did He get the authority to forgive sins? Did He do it on His own authority? As God, He needed nobody's permission. As God, He has all authority and yet we are told Jesus was given authority. He did not act as God, He acted as a man filled with the Spirit of God under the authority of God the Father.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
 
Mar 7, 2024
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This is a strange response to what I wrote. I don't believe any of those things. Like I said, you don't really understand the power of the Spirit.
What is this power you're talking about. It sounds like some kind of power to deceive. Jesus never hid the truth about who He is, He didn't play mind games or trick anyone.
 
Mar 7, 2024
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I can, for the very reasons I have given you.
But your reason is not based on the bible. It's just a personal opinion, we don't need to resort to private opinions about things scripture clearly teaches.
 

Cameron143

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What is this power you're talking about. It sounds like some kind of power to deceive. Jesus never hid the truth about who He is, He didn't play mind games or trick anyone.
Again you err in thinking the worst. Have you never been led of the Spirit? Have you never lived, yet not you, but Christ is living in you? Have you never found strength to persevere when your flesh was too weak? Have you never struggled in a sin and known deliverance? Have you never gone through a difficult situation and found grace in your time of need?
If you ever do experience such power, you will desire to walk in it continually.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Why don't you defend the charges, instead of resorting to the lowest common denominator. Let me guess you cand defend your false doctrine so you attack the the witness. You show no fear of God and your pride is highly offensive to God
You have repeatedly proven yourself incapable of observing data from any other perspective than your own. I am wasting my time describing a perspective to you that differs from your own, as all you do is attack the differences, and pigeonhole them according to where they most comfortably fit within your caricatured menu of heresies. You have not been able as yet to adopt the other persons axioms and look at data through that different lens to see what conclusions and possibilities, whether new or old, that lens affords.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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The reason why it isn't any easier having the Holy Spirit to helps us obey and keep from sin is because God hasn't taken away our free will. The Bible says that we can grieve the Holy Spirit, showing that it is possible to resist His work in us. This shows us that the Holy Spirit (and God the Father and the Lord Jesus) will not ever force us to do anything. We must be willing to submit to God in order for Him to work in us.

The Lord Jesus showed that it is possible to fully submit to the Holy Spirit which should be a great encouragement to us.


🌺
God will never take away our free will. We can't give and receive love without it. What makes you think He would?
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Yes and Jesus was also God the Son and said he was God so he did not only live as a man only. He was man and God at the same time.
The Son was God before incarnating, and after incarnating He remained the same person as had been God before incarnating. But He gave up His divine powers to become human. Platonist metaphysics can't handle a person who is God changing in any way, or having parts that can be divested and reinstated. So, Christians who are attached to the platonist stream of philosophy struggle to accept that The Son divested Himself of divine powers and relied on the Father's and the Holy Spirit's divine powers, during His forst 33 years as a human.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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God will never take away our free will. We can't give and receive love without it. What makes you think He would?

What did I write that makes you think I believe He would take it away from us???? 😲


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sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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Darwin, NT
But your reason is not based on the bible. It's just a personal opinion, we don't need to resort to private opinions about things scripture clearly teaches.
Are you kidding me? I gave you verse after verse showing how Jesus did nothing of Himself, hence His reliance on others ie. God the Father and Spirit. I have shown how all authority was given Him. God does not need to be given authority in anything. I directed you to post #85 which gave many scriptures showing Christ's submission to a higher power and authority.

You are the one giving personal opinion. You make a claim Jesus switched between being God and being man simply because he performed miracles. Have you not read of Moses or the Prophets? They performed many miracles, so one does not need to be God to perform miracles.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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I have discussed this a couple of times with others, never coming to any consensus. I thought I would open the discussion here. Some say because He is God, He did have an advantage, others have been unsure.

What say you?
i don't know how anyone can possibly think being God is a disadvantage.