Did you know the early church never gathered on Sunday?

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vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
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44
#41
Luke 22:19

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

God Bless
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#42
Atwood I accept paypal. The Sabbath could have come on many different days. In fact there were weeks that were Sabbath and a year that was Sabbath.

LEV 23

23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

LEV 23:39

Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath

LEV 25:3


3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for theLord: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.

5 That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.

LEV 25:7


7 And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.
8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.

Any of these Sabbaths could have fallen on any day of the week. Where is my 64,000.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#43
The Sabbath change, from Saturday to Sunday, had to happen because God prophesied it would. In order to make this change happen there has to be some tweaking of Scripture to get the people of God to fall for the change, which the Bible was tweaked and the people of God did fall for it. The early church never gathered on Sunday, it's a delusion.
The Jewish Sabbath is still Jewish Sabbath...it was never changed.

some Christians worship God on a daily basis in anyway they can...

Your denomination maybe teaching you to worship God only on Sabbath...Pity
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#44
The Jewish Sabbath is still Jewish Sabbath...it was never changed.

some Christians worship God on a daily basis in anyway they can...

Your denomination maybe teaching you to worship God only on Sabbath...Pity

no my friend look at Romans 14
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#46
in what issue did you say No and which verse in 14....and how do you understand Romans 14?
Who am I, and you can read I hope. The first few verse should open your noggin.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#47
Who am I, and you can read I hope. The first few verse should open your noggin.
Your reading my response...evident that I can read and write...
tell me how you view the first few verses...
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#48
Exactly as it say's, do not argue with the weaker brother that chooses to keep a day for he keeps it to the Lord and do not refuse a brother that will not eat meat for he does it to the Lord. I would rather not eat meat than to offrend my brother.

What do you think it say's
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
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#49
Exactly as it say's, do not argue with the weaker brother that chooses to keep a day for he keeps it to the Lord and do not refuse a brother that will not eat meat for he does it to the Lord. I would rather not eat meat than to offrend my brother.

What do you think it say's
I think the OP is proving a change in Sabbath to Sunday...

my response it was not change. It is still jewish Sabbath...

there is a big difference in correcting rather than offending a brother...
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#50
Ariel82; Besides your false belief that anyone is trying to claim Sunday to be the "new Sabbath" (which I say again is FALSE because I have never claimed that I was trying to make one day more valued above another, but neither will I judge those who honor either Sat or Sunday if God so leads them to do so.)
Those who observe Sunday, as the Lord's day, are not following the Bible, but rather, man made traditions.

"Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

You claim the first day as the Lord's day with no biblical support and have the sacred assembly of the congregation on the first day in light of it being the Lord's day instead on honoring God by assembling for sacred assembly on the seventh day.

Leviticus 23:3 "You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of complete rest, an official day for sacred assembly. It is the Lord's Sabbath day, and it must be observed wherever you live.

When you assemble for sacred assembly on the first day because it's so called, then Lord's day, in stead of the seventh day, you make void the commandment of God by your man made tradition.

Mark 7:9-13 Jesus said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban” (that is, a gift to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

1. worship God every day:

Romans 14: 5 another esteems every day alike.

Do we do this only on Sunday or every day?
So what you're saying is that what Paul is saying Romans 14 is that it's okay to honor God one day a week and dishonor God the other six. If you read the context of Romans 14 this issue was over doubtful things and weak brothers and sisters. It's talking about eating and not eating. A doubtful things is a thing that has not been clearly commanded by God, which is what day to fast on, abstaining from eating meat vs only vegetables. The seventh day Sabbath is not a doubtful thing nor is the Sabbath even mentioned in the verses, you have to pit it there in your mind.
However, I would guess the only part of my words that made you flinch is the statement that you could not keep the Sabbath as God commanded in the OT fully without taking away some laws concerning the TEMPLE and the animal sacrifice?

Sorry it upset you, but its the truth if you would examine the Scriptures. You do not make animal sacrifices and you do not worship at the temple. You do not have the Aaronic priesthood. You have admitted to all of this. Therefore, however you keep the Sabbath today is NOT the same as outlined in the OT. You have changed the Sabbath worship by taking out laws and rituals you did not think applied.
We live by the teachings of Jesus. Jesus is our sacrifice for sin. He put an end to the sacrificial system. The seventh day Sabbath is not part of the sacrificial system as a matter of fact, the sacredness of seventh day was before sin was even in the world. The sacrificial system was set up to deal with sin, forgetting the Sabbath is a sin.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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#51
Those who observe Sunday, as the Lord's day, are not following the Bible, but rather, man made traditions.

"Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

You claim the first day as the Lord's day with no biblical support and have the sacred assembly of the congregation on the first day in light of it being the Lord's day instead on honoring God by assembling for sacred assembly on the seventh day.


Where in the bible it shows the first day of the week is the Lord's day?

Leviticus 23:3 "You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of complete rest, an official day for sacred assembly
. It is the Lord's Sabbath day, and
it must be observed wherever you live.

When you assemble for sacred assembly on the first day because it's so called, then Lord's day, in stead of the seventh day, you make void the commandment of God by your man made tradition


1. are the Egyptians obliged to keep the Sabbath?

2. Are the Egyptians today, required to keep the Sabbath before coming to Christ?

The Israelites are commanded to keep the Sabbath under the law...

Mark 7:9-13
Jesus said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban” (that is, a gift to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”


Who is he talking to????TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE COMMANDMENT



So what you're saying is that what Paul is saying Romans 14 is that it's okay to honor God one day a week and dishonor God the other six. If you read the context of Romans 14 this issue was over doubtful things and weak brothers and sisters. It's talking about eating and not eating. A doubtful things is a thing that has not been clearly commanded by God, which is what day to fast on, abstaining from eating meat vs only vegetables. The seventh day Sabbath is not a doubtful thing nor is the Sabbath even mentioned in the verses, you have to pit it there in your mind.
Roman 14 is about the Gentiles - who eat meat and have no commandment to follow the Law
and Jewish who have the Law - prohibitions of certain meat and keeping the Day of Sabbath...

to not offend each other... for we are all justified by the blood of Christ and not by Law... and we all give thanks to the Lord.

Now, forbidding to worshipping God in anyday is different that observing the Sabbath.


We live by the teachings of Jesus. Jesus is our sacrifice for sin. He put an end to the sacrificial system. The seventh day Sabbath is not part of the sacrificial system as a matter of fact, the sacredness of seventh day was before sin was even in the world. The sacrificial system was set up to deal with sin, forgetting the Sabbath is a sin.
He who observed the Sabbath observed it to the Lord...and He who worship God everyday..worship God.
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#52
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remains the same veil not taken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, the veil is on their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
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#53
The sabbath by truth was placed byGod not by the hands of man but through the authority of God. Now the sabbath as the jews observe it is not our way but the sabbath was emplaced by YHWH the Lord Most High if we read the creation chapter in genesis thos was before the curse was emplaced . When the veil. Of death was instituted unto man by disobedience an espousal with sin and death till Christ was to come , my people were given a temporary veil till He that reddemed us should come our beloved Jesus Christ . Then we were given the veil of the spirit , a higher Law wich brings life. Thanks to Jesus our Christ.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
14,983
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#54
Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I see every day as a day of rest in te Lord


[h=3]Acts 10:43 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter[/h]
[SUP]43 [/SUP]To Him all the prophets testify (bear witness) that everyone who believes in Him [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him, giving himself up to Him] receives forgiveness of sins through His name.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#55
Where in the bible it shows the first day of the week is the Lord's day?

[/COLOR]

1. are the Egyptians obliged to keep the Sabbath?

2. Are the Egyptians today, required to keep the Sabbath before coming to Christ?

The Israelites are commanded to keep the Sabbath under the law...

Who is he talking to????TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE COMMANDMENT

Roman 14 is about the Gentiles - who eat meat and have no commandment to follow the Law
and Jewish who have the Law - prohibitions of certain meat and keeping the Day of Sabbath...

to not offend each other... for we are all justified by the blood of Christ and not by Law... and we all give thanks to the Lord.

Now, forbidding to worshiping God in any day is different that observing the Sabbath.

He who observed the Sabbath observed it to the Lord...and He who worship God everyday..worship God.


When God gave the two stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments there was a great mixed multitude of people who were there. This great mixed multitude included Egyptians who left Egypt with God's people. God, in giving His Law to the people said there shall be one Law for all people. In Isaiah God says anyone, including a Gentile, who desires to join the Lord and love His name shall honor the seventh day. He goes on to say how His house would be a house for all people, even those who are not part of Israel.

There is no place in the Bible that says the first day is the Lord's day but there are dozens that say the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD our God. Jesus Himself said He is Lord of the Sabbath which makes the seventh day the Lord's day.

The Bible gives no command for man to abstain from eating meat. Romans 14 is speaking about weak brothers who believe eating meat is wrong. It's also about fasting on special days, which God gives no commandment regarding fasting on certain days. The seventh day Sabbath is a clear commandment of God and is not an opinion of man of which Romans 14 is all about. Don't read the Sabbath into it.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#56
Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I see every day as a day of rest in te Lord


Acts 10:43 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter


[SUP]43 [/SUP]To Him all the prophets testify (bear witness) that everyone who believes in Him [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him, giving himself up to Him] receives forgiveness of sins through His name.
The forth commandment rest is a physical rest and is to be applied to your sons, daughters, servants, working animals and even those who are not God's people. The rest that Jesus gives us is spiritual. You can rest in Jesus for your own spiritual rest but you can't spiritually rest for your son, daughter, servants, working animals or those who are not God's people. The forth commandment rest is a physical rest in honor of the memorial of creation. Just like the fourth commandment says.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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#57
When God gave the two stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments there was a great mixed multitude of people who were there. This great mixed multitude included Egyptians who left Egypt with God's people. God, in giving His Law to the people said there shall be one Law for all people. In Isaiah God says anyone, including a Gentile, who desires to join the Lord and love His name shall honor the seventh day. He goes on to say how His house would be a house for all people, even those who are not part of Israel.
This is very basic:
Exo_31:16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo_31:17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
IT was a command for the Children of Israel...
Do you think those who lived in asia i.e (Philippines, Thailand, China), in Ireland/UK or those people who lived in the area of USA today have any Idea of the commandment of the Sabbath during Moses days?

or the abomination of eating swine, including the circumcision...No.

While the children of Israel was observing the Sabbath in the Land that God gave to them..The gentiles like in asia, Europe and USA were all busy doing their own things and worshipping their own gods...

Your comment was right then, that if a gentile or Non-Israelites wants to join them during those days...they were required to follow the laws...

That was the thinking back then...because righteousness was based on the Law...

And because of this...those who were strict on the Law wants the Gentiles believers to follow the Law...

and here's what peter said
Act 15:5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, andto command them to keep the law of Moses. (Probably like what you are doing right now)
Act 15:6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Act 15:13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.



There is no place in the Bible that says the first day is the Lord's day but there are dozens that say the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD our God. Jesus Himself said He is Lord of the Sabbath which makes the seventh day the Lord's day.
the seventh day is the Sabbath...

The Bible gives no command for man to abstain from eating meat. Romans 14 is speaking about weak brothers who believe eating meat is wrong. It's also about fasting on special days, which God gives no commandment regarding fasting on certain days. The seventh day Sabbath is a clear commandment of God and is not an opinion of man of which Romans 14 is all about. Don't read the Sabbath into it.
From the very beginning of the book of Romans it was about dealing between the Gentile believers and the Jewish Believers:
1. Law vs not under Law
2. Olive tree vs the wild olive tree
3. Blinded in part (children of Israel) vs fullness of Gentiles

clean meat
Rom 14:14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


compare this to Lev 11


A REVISIT OF THE bOOKS OF rOMANS IS ADVISE..


 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#58
some of Gods warning about another gospel being preached

Jesus Christ warned, "Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4–5, KJV).

"There are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ" (Galatians 1:7).

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, (preach any other gospel) to you
than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you
than what you have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8–9).

For (false Christs) and (false prophets shall rise), and shall shew signs and wonders,
to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Mark 13:22 (KJV)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24 (KJV)

Beware of (false prophets), which come to you in (sheep's clothing),
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.(Matthew 7:15)

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that
you may (charge certain persons) not to teach (any different doctrine),(1 Timothy 3)

But there were (false prophets) also among the people, even as there shall be (false teachers among you),
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them,
and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1)

These people are the ones who are creating divisions among you. They follow
their natural instincts because they do not have God’s Spirit in them.(Jude 1:19)

In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation
has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.(2 Peter 2:3)

a man named Simon had been a sorcerer there for many years, amazing the people of Samaria and claiming to be someone great.

Everyone, from the least to the greatest, often spoke of him as “the Great One—the Power of God.”
They listened closely to him because for a long time he had astounded them with his magic.Acts 8:9-10)

These are the things you are to teach and insist on.
If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction
of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 1 Timothy 6:3

Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith;
they will follow deceptive spirits and (teachings that come from demons). 1 Timothy 4:14

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?(Matthew 7:22)

"Many will "begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,'
Jesus said "Depart from Me, (all you workers of iniquity)."

Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
So be on your guard! Remember that (for three years) I never stopped
(warning each of you night and day with tears).Acts 20:30

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away
by the error of (the lawless) and (fall from your secure position).(2 Peter 3:17)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine,but according to their own desires,
because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers. (II Timothy 4:3)

I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will (come in among you after I leave), (not sparing the flock).
Even some men from (your own group) will rise up and (distort the truth) in order to draw a following.(Acts 20:29)

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are
turning to a different gospel,which is really no gospel at all.

(A great wave of persecution began that day), sweeping over the church in Jerusalem;
and (all the believers except the apostles) were scattered through the regions of Judea and Samaria.(acts 8:9)

- all the believers scattered except the apostles, and they were tortured and killed.

We should be aware of false teachers who desire to destroy our faith
a. False teachers live a life of immorality ,2 Peter 2:9-10, Exodus 32:5-6;25-26, Jude26-18,Hebrews 13:4,Romans1:21-27
b. False teachers live a life of rebellion we need to respect authority
(2 Peter 2:10-13, Romans 13:1-7,1 Peter 2:13-19, Ephesians 5:22; 6:5-7, Jude 8-9, Romans 1:28-32)
c. False teachers live a life of greed (2 Peter 2:14-16, Proverbs 1:8, 10-19; 2:11,16,18,19; 4:20-25; 5:1, 3-19; 27:20)

Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and (think to change times and laws): and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

“Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be great tribulation

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:8–9).


"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12; 16:25
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#59
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
 
Nov 30, 2012
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#60
We who are Gentiles are not bound by the Law. We need only love God, obey God, stay away from sexual immorality, eat no flesh of a strangled animal, and avoid blood sacrifices. This is what was decided at the First Council of Elders in Jerusalem, and has been immortalized in the writings of Scripture. Stop adding things!

We were cast out of the synagogues, and banned from the festivals. Why do you seek to drag us where we were not wanted?