Difference between God and Jesus

[silas42]

Hi silas,

we'r just going round in circles, I still stand by what I have said...some who proclaims to be a Christian and yet denies who Jesus is, is worshipping a false God.

This is what you actually said:
if people believe Jesus is the Son of God but not God Himself they cannot be a Christian

Although your question is simple to answer, I realise that all you can cope with is a debate where you ask the questions and deflect from answering any of mine, and then you backpeddle on what you have previously stated. That's not debate. I would advise you to do some studying and allow yourself to be Holy Spirit led, not clinical study of the natural mind, that has left you I am afraid in the trouble you are in now

 

[phil36]

Hi silas

I still agree with that. and I also affirm 1 John 5.

Can you now answer:

Can someone who proclaims to be a Christian, deny who Christ says he is ?

 

[josh123]

I'm a Christian. I believe in God. I believe in God manifested in three offices. NOW, His office is in my heart, in your heart. Not another God somewhere else; another God somewhere else; and another God somewhere else. That's as pagan as pagan can be. NEVER one time was that even thought of until the Nicene Council. [You can't] find it in the Bible, or find it in history - till that time - it's not there."

 

[silas42]

Hi silas

I still agree with that. and I also affirm 1 John 5.

Can you now answer:

Can someone who proclaims to be a Christian, deny who Christ says he is ?

Oh I will Phil, just as soon as you answer my questions that you have constantly evaded answering

Why do the ordained ministers in Trinitarian churches not plainly preach from the pulpit that a person must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved? A belief he is simply the Son of God is not enough for salvation.

The bible does not demand a person believe Christ to be God Himself to be saved, why do you think this is?

Jesus stated the Father is the only true God, do you believe he spoke the truth?

Jesus said the Father is greater than he
Do you accept Jesus spoke the truth?

If the bible does not demand a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved and neither do the ordained Trinitarian ministers from their pulpits, can I ask, do you agree a person does not need to believe Christ is God Himself to be saved, and if not, bearing in mind what I have written, why not? Do you know more than the ministers, and Christ, or will you do your duty where they failed?

Now, when you can answer these so oft put questions to you, I'll answer yours, debate is two way, not one way

 

[phil36]

I'm a Christian. I believe in God. I believe in God manifested in three offices. NOW, His office is in my heart, in your heart. Not another God somewhere else; another God somewhere else; and another God somewhere else. That's as pagan as pagan can be. NEVER one time was that even thought of until the Nicene Council. [You can't] find it in the Bible, or find it in history - till that time - it's not there."

Hi Josh,

Jesus is Both fully God and fully Human, the bible teaches this. He wa sent By the Father, the fisrt person of the trinity.

To believe anything else is not believing in the God of scripture, you will not believe who the Father is, who Jesus is and who the Holy Spirit is.

You are wrong about the trinity not being thought of until the Nicene creed, I agree it was not exstensivly articulated until then and the reason for this was to combat the heresys that arose about God. But there are communications from Christians from an early date.. also from Scripture itself. There was no need for a creed until the heresy arose.

 

[josh123]

the point where people get themselves in trouble is when they see, I and the Father are one.” [h=3]John 10:30[/h]but they don't realise that they were a dual being when the holy spirit came into Jesus, Jesus even prayed that for us that we might be one like how he and the father is, and it's exactly what happens when the holy spirit comes into you it speaks by itself sometimes and we speak by ourselves sometimes, when we become born again the language completely changes because that is the holy spirit talking, scripture talks about this also speak in new tongues 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [h=3]Mark 16:17[/h]

 

[phil36]

Oh I will Phil, just as soon as you answer my questions that you have constantly evaded answering

Why do the ordained ministers in Trinitarian churches not plainly preach from the pulpit that a person must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved? A belief he is simply the Son of God is not enough for salvation.

The bible does not demand a person believe Christ to be God Himself to be saved, why do you think this is?

Jesus stated the Father is the only true God, do you believe he spoke the truth?

Jesus said the Father is greater than he
Do you accept Jesus spoke the truth?

If the bible does not demand a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved and neither do the ordained Trinitarian ministers from their pulpits, can I ask, do you agree a person does not need to believe Christ is God Himself to be saved, and if not, bearing in mind what I have written, why not? Do you know more than the ministers, and Christ, or will you do your duty where they failed?

Now, when you can answer these so oft put questions to you, I'll answer yours, debate is two way, not one way

Hi Silas,

I have answered already and as I have also said someone else also commented on it. Anyhow does not the bible say you have to believe in Jesus.. so who is Jesus.. is he just a man, is he an angel, is he a philosophical idea, is he just a force.. so I think you DO HAVE TO BELIEVE WHO JESUS SAID HE IS.

now an you answer the question..I m sure we are all awaiting your answer:

Can someone who proclaims to be a Christian, deny who Christ says he is ?

Can you now answer the question

 

[silas42]

Hi Silas,

I have answered already and as I have also said someone else also commented on it. Anyhow does not the bible say you have to believe in Jesus.. so who is Jesus.. is he just a man, is he an angel, is he a philosophical idea, is he just a force.. so I think you DO HAVE TO BELIEVE WHO JESUS SAID HE IS.

now an you answer the question..I m sure we are all awaiting your answer:

Can someone who proclaims to be a Christian, deny who Christ says he is ?

Can you now answer the question

Lol, so as usual we just get the deflection. You' know the Greek, you quote it, you think you know much of the bible and spiritual truth, yet you cannot answer my simple questions can you, all you can do is desperately deflect away from them with questions that are so easy to answer.
I have become bored with this Phil, oh so bored

I'll give you a clue as to your question though.

Trinitarian ministers, and Trinitarians themselves freely admit it does not plainly state anywhere in the Bible Christ is God Himself. I guess its a case of you knowing more than them then

 

[phil36]

Lol, so as usual we just get the deflection. You' know the Greek, you quote it, you think you know much of the bible and spiritual truth, yet you cannot answer my questions can you, all you can do is desperately deflect away from them with questions that are so easy to answer.
I have become bored with this Phil, oh so bored

I'll give you a clue as to your question though.

Trinitarian ministers, and Trinitarians themselves freely admit it does not state anywhere in the Bible Christ is God Himself. I guess its a case of you knowing more than them then

I rest my case. what a foolish and ignorant statement.

Anyhow nice talking to you silas.

 

[phil36]

the point where people get themselves in trouble is when they see, I and the Father are one.” John 10:30

but they don't realise that they were a dual being when the holy spirit came into Jesus, Jesus even prayed that for us that we might be one like how he and the father is, and it's exactly what happens when the holy spirit comes into you it speaks by itself sometimes and we speak by ourselves sometimes, when we become born again the language completely changes because that is the holy spirit talking, scripture talks about this also speak in new tongues 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mark 16:17

Hi Josh,

thanks for replying, However I am not sure what it is you are saying (that's my fault). Im not sure what mean by duality, or what or who you are saying Jesus is.

 

[silas42]

I rest my case. what a foolish and ignorant statement.

Anyhow nice talking to you silas.

It is a statement made by Trinitarian ministers, and Trintarians themselves

You see Phil I can give you a plain verse of scripture where Christ states the Father is the only true God
But you cannot give me a plain verse that states he is

I want to apologise if I have, due to exasperation spoken harshly to you at times

As I keep telling you, people who believe as you do are a tiny minority in Christendom, the majority agree with me as to salvational belief

You know as well as I do it is a ministers solemn duty to plainly preach salvational belief from the pulpit, but they don't5 preach what you state on here, neither would the vast majority of Trinitarians agree with you
As I told Bryan yesterday, a friend of mine has belonged to a varierty of Trinitarian churches for over 40 years, I told him the other week official Trintarian belief is you must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved, its not enough to simply believe he is the Son of God. My friend replied with incredulity
'It's strange they don't preach that.'

My sister is part of a ministry team in her church, and good friends with the vicars wife, she simply believes Christ is the Son of God

A Godly couple I know who don't have the time to spend theologising on the internet, as they gave up good jobs to serve the Lord full time and run soup kitchens for the homeless were horrified when I told them people ion the internet were stating you must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved, and they have all their lives attended Trintarian churches.

This is the actual reality Phil when you are not fixated with your rigid, condemning theologies. However, it is a reality that only those truly open to the truth can face, people who's god is rigid doctrinal theology could never bear to face the reality, they couldn't cope with it. I do feel sorry for you, and I mean that, for you are lost in a world where all that matters to you is your(understanding) of rigid inflexible doctrine.
The Pharisees had the same problem in Jesus day, and like you, seemed to revel in condemning the innocent. It's not a theological exercise, its being led of Holy Spirit truth, and unless you can one day understand that, you will I am afraid be lost in a world of shallow, condemning religion

 

[phil36]

can you answer the question:
Can someone who proclaims to be a Christian, deny who Christ says he is ?

 

[silas42]

can you answer the question:
Can someone who proclaims to be a Christian, deny who Christ says he is ?

Who did Christ actually state a person must believe him to be to inherit eternal life?

Who did John plainly state a person must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life?

Where does it plainly state in the bible a person must believe Christ is God Himself to inherit eternal life

Who did Christ state was the one true God?

 

[phil36]

well who do you say Jesus is, is he a man, is he a god, is he an angel, is he a force.

 

[silas42]

well who do you say Jesus is, is he a man, is he a god, is he an angel, is he a force.

You can't respond to a single question can you, it never changes, you just ignore the lot and come back with more of your own


Read back through the thread, I've plainly stated what I believe at least twice in depth

 

[phil36]

Hi silas,

So Jesus is the son of God -but what does that make him, an angel, a man, a god , force? please enlighten, the church could be seriously wrong in what it has always held dear.. I

SO WHAT IS THE SON OF GOD?

 

[silas42]

Hi silas,

So Jesus is the son of God -but what does that make him, an angel, a man, a god , force? please enlighten, the church could be seriously wrong in what it has always held dear.. I

SO WHAT IS THE SON OF GOD?

Read back through the thread, I have twice explained it, and no one else has thus far complained I have not given a full enough description of who I believe Christ to be

But I have to once again speak the truth. This is monotonous, you never answer or respond to any questions Phil, simply ignore them and deflect by asking more of your own, debate just isn't possible this way
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to leave it there, it is tedious recieving no replies to my questions
Nice chatting to you though,
God Bless

 

[phil36]

Nice chatting to you LBG.

 

[josh123]

Hi Josh,

thanks for replying, However I am not sure what it is you are saying (that's my fault). Im not sure what mean by duality, or what or who you are saying Jesus is.

Jesus is God but a different administration of God, but God himself dwell in him, it's like how born again christians are, your still you but the holy spirit dwells in us, makes us a dual being, sometimes i don't know what i'm saying but i'm saying it that is the holy spirit talking

 

[phil36]

Hi Josh,

so are you saying that Jesus only came into existence on his conception? and who the is the Holy Spirit?