Disciplines of Eternal Life

PeterJens · Jan 27, 2017

We walk in obedience because that is what we are called to do.
We are not straining to achieve purity, some have achieved. Once in this place you
know what it is to walk, to love. You see people fully as they are not what they want to be.

The language you are sharing is the language which has not seen Christs walk.
The wounds that mold and distort people need addressing and healing.

But you can neither see them or are aware of them because you have not dealt with your
own. And it is these which make you fail, bring sinful impulses and desires to the fore.
It is these you search for release from, while not seeing it is within you that problem lies.

Life is tough, and when we are born again these knocks are still there forming and folding
us. Until we face them and work them through we forever become defined by their effects.

blessedjohn80 · Jan 27, 2017

PeterJens said:

Focusing on walking in obedience seems like straining to achieve purity to me. The focus should always be on Christ. How did Peter manage to walk on water? By focusing on Jesus. The moment his eyes strayed that's when he began to fear, then started to sink. Creating fear for the brethren to impose pure obedience is a contradiction to the gospel. We are to spread the good news that we have a loving God and that He sent His beloved Son Jesus as our savior, one who is always gentle and lightens our burdens. Always telling us to not fear. It was Jesus' blood and perfect works that made our salvation possible not our works or behavior.

PeterJens said:

True life is tough but we have Jesus. Jesus who's health is contagious. Everything He touched were healed. Even the dead were raised. And we have the Holy Spirit in us to constantly help us in times of troubles and in our weakest. We must be reminded constantly that it is not us who live but Christ in us. That is the truth that we must constantly renew. The Spirit is willing, but our mind needs renewing daily to keep us from relying back on our works and efforts.

Walking in obedience is great as it is a visual proof to the brethren and to the unbelievers that there is a loving God. Walking in obedience also makes it easier to have a joyful and fruitful life however it is not the way to salvation.

Walking in obedience is a result from having received salvation and since we know that everybody is different, the walks will be different for each and every one of us as well. Some are slow to learn and some are fast. Kind of like undergoing rehab after years of being in a coma. There will be people who will not recover well, or they do recover but slowly. Some don't even recover fully but in all cases all are awake and alive. That is the good news, and even better news, we have Jesus as our help to our recovery!

Will Jesus leave us if we don't recover fast enough? Will He kick us out of the hospital if we are stubborn to take our medicine? Will he put us back to our comatose state if we continue to make mistakes and do the things that are unhealthy for us? No. Jesus has all the time, all the patience, all the resource, and all the love to make sure that we live well. We are called to live and live abundantly regardless of the level of our recovery.

It's one thing to teach how to walk in obedience than to actually do it. And it's another story entirely when someone teaches how to perfectly walk in obedience when you know they can't themselves.

If God was patient with us shouldn't we be patient with each other much more? Knowing that we are all going through the same road.

Grace and peace. God bless.

Grace777x70 · Jan 27, 2017

Amen...blessedjohn80...well said...love the gospel...what you have written is an example of having the horse in front of the cart. The cart does not create the horse.

john832 · Jan 27, 2017

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wattie said:

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

As the previous scriptures show, God commands us to obey Him. It is not just a pleasant thought or a good idea, it is a prerequisite...

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

And then comes verse 10...

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Now, what are Christ's Commandments? Let's see...

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Christ is the Creator, the One who spoke to Adam and Eve. No one has ever seen or heard the Father...

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So, let's see here...

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

And then follows His Commandments. The question we must answer is who spoke this...

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Christ gave His Commandments in Ex 20. Now this is a very bare bones explanation, there are many more scriptures that prove Christ was the One who gave the Law and then He said...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

How long will this Law be around...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Now, I went for a walk with my dog this morning and looked up. The heavens were still there and I was standing firmly on the earth. Draw your own conclusion on this, I already have.

Why do you assume that since eternal life is a free gift (we cannot earn it) that there are no conditions required?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

God requires that we obey Him. If we fall short, Christ's sacrifice covers our sin but it is not license to sin or does not abrogate the Law...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Please note the bolded portion. God wants us to develop His holy righteous character. If we are to live with Him for eternity, we are to live with Him according to HIS standards.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We are justified by His shed blood. (Our sins are forgiven because He paid the price for them.) We are reconciled to the Father by His death and then will be saved by His life (His resurrection from the dead).

Yes, I just posted some clear scriptures.

We do not earn salvation but there are some stipulations. Commandment keeping being one of them.

Preacha24-7 · Jan 27, 2017

God's commandments are not hard. Once you are born again and receive the
Baptism of the Holy Spirit then you can be able to understand God's Word and
what He requires. God's standard is holiness.
1. Leviticus19:2 You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.
2. John1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to
become children of God, to those who believe in His name.
3. John1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of man, but of
God.
4. John1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of
the Father, full of grace and truth.
5. The law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through
Jesus Christ.
6. Saved by Grace Ephesians2:8-9
To God be the Glory
Preacha24-7 Evangelist to the Homeless (Street Ministry)
All these Scriptures are from the New King James Study Bible

PeterJens · Jan 27, 2017

blessedjohn80 said:

Sounds like you are suggesting God does it all, without our involvement.
Well my friend, so many people have lived this way and zip, nothing.

God heals but we are expected to do our part. It is a real relationship where
though what we do is respond and react, it is all essential.

Abraham had to offer Isaac to show his faithfulness and belief. God did not
just read it from his heart, he had to actually do it.

I have found this equally is a spiritual law. If you want to see God move you
have to step out in faith, else it is just words, a show, a pipe dream.

And the Holy Spirit is part of the trinity, He is the outworking of God in our
hearts, the communion and relationship that makes it all hang together.

john832 · Jan 27, 2017

PeterJens said:

There is a very important point here in this example...

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

The point being here is that we have free moral agency and God does not make us do anything. We are always able to choose...

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Eze 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

We can turn away from God or turn to Him. The choice is ours.

PeterJens · Jan 27, 2017

john832 said:

I think this summarises our problem in life. We believe we know ourselves, yet a situation
comes about and we behave in a way we did not expect.

So who is right? Our thoughts and ideas about who we are, or what we actually do?
If a lot of our thinking is background, propositions, and our actions that define our
real choices, then we are defined by our actions and words that are the outflow of our
hearts.

I have read some say, God knows who are His already, by reading who they are.
But what if the reality is you are as a result of what you do. We get so involved in
our heads we get lost, and forget so much is just avoidance, entertainment, passing the
time, survival, living, not defining anything unique about who we are.

So I think we must remember what we do is the result of who we are, so we should look
at what we do, and learn is this who we want to be, or do we need to repent and change,
and walk deeper with the Lord?

blessedjohn80 · Jan 28, 2017

PeterJens said:

Well, it's as simple as that really. “No one is good—except God alone." If you say that many have lived "this way" - where "this way" means believing that God does all the saving, then good for them! As to how you came to the conclusion that it came to nothing puzzles me.

How then can you call Jesus if you take part in the saving? Tell me then, who is your Lord and Savior?
Just by looking at the name Jesus we know that it means "God is salvation"

The only part that we have in the word salvation would be the one being saved.
If you can't accept that then you can't possible say that Jesus is your savior.

PeterJens said:

The real relationship between a God and man do you not know? God provides, man receives. The giver is always the one in the better position. Do you wish to be in the better position than God then?

What about a father-son relationship? It's the same thing. The father provides and the son receives.

I'm assuming that the relationship that you know very well and live by is that of a slave, a worker. One who always thinks about a way to return the favor. Always calculating, always aware of the debt. Having difficulty understanding the word grace, or gift.

There's a reason why Jesus wanted us to call God "Our Father" and that is because that's the heart of God. A loving God.

What was broken in the beginning was not obedience but faith/belief in a loving God. That was the root of the disobedience, unbelief.

“Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The moment a brother starts to doubt God's goodness, then thats when the enemy will have a foothold. Then disobedience follows.

Again we are back to how Jesus wants to be remembered which is through the holy communion. The holy communion being the defining and most important event in all of mankind where God's Son became sacrifice so that the unbelievers/sinners may know that there is a just and loving God.

God did not bend the rules to save us because He IS Just and Holy.
God displayed His unconditional love for us by offering His son as the payment for the unbelief/sins.
And God sent the Holy Spirit as the assurance that this Holy transaction will not be broken till all those who believe be saved through the blood and not through works.

And that is why the good news/gospel today will always be "to believe", "have faith". Obedience is a result of belief/faith. The reason why we are seeing brothers who seem to do more good works than others is not because of how obedient they are but because they have the bigger faith/belief. They're the one's who know how to receive. Obedience should not be taken as a measurement of one's salvation. Look beyond the flesh but through the spirit.

God is on your side helping you get better and better. God is watching you very closely not so He can throw you away the moment you make stupid mistakes knowingly or unknowingly, but to guide you all the way through.

PeterJens said:

"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death."

Clearly it is by faith not by works. To make it more clear take a look at what Abraham thought and said to Isaac before doing the offering. "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son."
That is faith in a loving God. That is trust in God's goodness. And that is what God is always looking for.

PeterJens said:

Tell that to the thief who died as a sinner in front of many men and still went to heaven. The gospel is a dream that is too good to be true. Unfortunately those who claim to know what is good and evil, who claim to be obedient, who claim to have pure hearts, heavenly thoughts are but blind men seeking their own justification that they can be good men worthy of earning their way to salvation.

Yes the gospel is a dream come true to us sinners. Everyone is on equal grounds in salvation. People who are so offended by this belief and grace, who say there is a condition or a way to deserve it are those who are bitter and feel cheated that their hard work is all for naught.

"Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."

PeterJens said:

Very true indeed. The Holy Spirit in us will be the One ensuring our salvation. That is why we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. If God seals you with the Holy Spirit, what are you that you could unseal the Holy Spirit? Hopefully, you're not one those who believe that because they have been saved by the blood of Jesus that they are now on equal footing with our Lord, being able to walk perfectly, sinless, expecting a praise for being obedient.

In the end, we should ask ourselves just Who is our savior? Speaking from my own experience I too once believed that once I was saved by our Lord that I would have to walk carefully not to loose my salvation through disobedience. But thank God for the Holy Spirit who revealed to me about God's true grace, love and immeasurable support.

"Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."

Let us all have confidence that this promise of God to us will not be broken, not only because we know Jesus' blood was not shed in vain but because we know that we have a faithful and loving God and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit's guidance Who's power is eternal. Those who believe that this promise can be broken not only trample on Jesus' innocent blood, but reject God's love, deny His Holiness and Justice, and belittle the power of the Holy Spirit which is in you.

God bless.

blessedjohn80 · Jan 28, 2017

john832 said:

"He anointed us, set His seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

"Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, because it is by faith you stand firm."

Once you accept Jesus as your savior, you are saved indeed! Turning to God boldly in good times and in bad times. Standing firm in His love and unwavering faith to fulfill His will on us.

Peace and grace to you.

blessedjohn80 · Jan 28, 2017

PeterJens said:

You sound like you already forgot who you are in the eyes of God when you accepted Jesus. Why not look at Jesus instead of yourself? What would you accomplish looking at yourself and the things you do when you have Jesus telling you who you are. Is not Jesus in you? Christ lives in us and through us right?

The best way to look would be towards Jesus and not in ourselves.

Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life is He not?

samuel23 · Jan 28, 2017

Sorry but can't agree with that one, WE do the pulling and Jesus does the guiding. What would be the sense of putting a yoke on someone if they were not going to pull? That would be like yoking up ole Bossy to the plow and then you pull the plow while ole Bossy stands and watches. Not gonna happen. Jesus yoke is easy because it fits correctly and we can pull with it.

Grace777x70 · Jan 28, 2017

It is God that gives us both the desire and the capability to do good things being directly by the Holy Spirit within us. He is the Vine - we are the branches. It is His life flowing in and through us that produces the fruit of His life.

We participate in Him with it but it is all His work. Get this wrong and we create a religion of works for salvation.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

We don't say" Ok Lord, I'm going to India to preach the gospel - bless me as I go".

God's way is that He sends us to India in the first place and it is Him that is working in and through us to do His will while participating with Him with what he is doing in and through us in India.

Big difference.

So, the guy going to India could be doing a seemingly "good work" but it is himself as he was not sent by God- he sent himself and it is all done for "good works".

FreeNChrist · Jan 28, 2017

samuel23 said:

The reason Jesus' yoke is light and easy is because He carries the load.

In biblical times, a farmer would use the practice of yoking a mature ox with a young ox side-by-side. It was the strength of the older ox that literally pulled the entire load. The young ox simply kept pace with its stronger partner.

That is a picture of our entire Christian life. We are the young ox, and Jesus is the older ox, we may think that we are sharing the load, but it is really Jesus who is actually doing all the work.

The Christian life is not learning to "carry the load on our own", as if that is Christian maturity. The reality is that the Christian life is learning more and more that it is Christ who carries the load, and our need is to simply walk with Him.

"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:30

PeterJens · Jan 28, 2017

blessedjohn80 said:

Not my experience of even biblical.

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.
Rom 12:1

If you can get this so completely wrong, I just have to close the book.

May your mind be opened by the Holy Spirit and learn to walk in His ways.
Amen

blessedjohn80 · Jan 28, 2017

samuel23 said:

"Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”

Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

This scripture proves that God is doing all the work. The shepherd searches, finds the sheep, the sheep gets carried then brought home. Which part does it show the sheep repenting again? Which part does it show the sheep looking for the shepherd?

Repent means to believe in God's love. Being still in his grasp. Resting. Believe. Having faith. Everyone is equal because Jesus does, did, and will do all the work necessary for our salvation. Having that faith of a loving God produces obedience.

You can obey all you want but if you don't believe God love's you, if you don't believe that Jesus died for you for free then your obedience means nothing. God doesn't look at your obedience. God looks at your faith, same way Jesus looks at everyones faith in His ministry.

Jesus was always, "look at this mans faith" or "I have not seen greater faith than this" as opposed to, "look at this mans obedience", or "I have not seen greater obedience than this".

No. Obedience is always associated with Jesus. Why? Because Jesus perfected it. He Is righteousness. Sinless and Holy.

You want to pull with Jesus that's fine. Jesus isn't gonna rebuke you for it. He's even gonna praise you for it however if you believe that by pulling you are taking part in your salvation then you must be over your head. Way over your head.

Jesus died sinless for your sins to get you salvation. Or do you believe that Jesus' sacrifice was half complete? Jesus did say "It is finished". So when Jesus says it's finished, is it truly finished? When it is said that Jesus paid for all your sins does it really mean ALL your sins? Is God's ALL really mean All or half, some, few, most? Is God's Yes truely yes?

But if you still insist of doing your pulling that's fine. You will be rewarded for all your hard work just don't be upset when people are being saved left and right even if you don't see them pulling as hard as you.

"But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first."

"At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."

Belief of a child is quite interesting. You give a child a gift and immediately a child owns it without question. Kids understand the concept of gift and grace. Adults have a difficult time though. Always thinking "what's the catch?" "did I deserve this?".

God says believe that Jesus paid for your sins. God displays His love through Jesus' sacrifice. How clear can it get?

-grace and peace to you.

blessedjohn80 · Jan 28, 2017

PeterJens said:

Look up Genesis and observe how it was then. How Adam and Eve lived under God's provision. Work didn't come after the land was cursed. Everything was provided. All Adam and Eve had to do was receive.

Adam and Eve had the choice to eat from the Tree of Life/Jesus, but chose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil/ or what is now called the mosaic law.

You know what is wrong and right? And you judge according to what you know? Guess you've been eating the wrong tree all this time. Eating too much of that tree produces pride you know.

May your mind be renewed and accept God's grace fully. God bless.

..

Grace777x70 · Jan 29, 2017

blessedjohn80 said:

Amen...I love the story of the lost sheep and the Shepherd coming for him.

I noticed that just because the sheep was lost - it still belonged to the Shepherd.

Being lost does not negate "ownership" and "belonging to."

I like the parable of the lost sheep and Jesus says that there is more joy in heaven for those that repent ( change your mind - and yes that means towards anything that is contrary to the life of God - including sinning )

How did this sheep repent? The sheep allowed Jesus to carry it on His shoulders and be carried. It repented to be led back to the life of being with the Shepherd.

Thanks for reminding me about this.

PeterJens · Jan 29, 2017

blessedjohn80 said:

I have eaten of the tree of life, so now I can walk in righteousness and truth and not die under
the sin shown by the knowledge of Good and Evil.

The law is righteous and holy, but only condemns the law breakers who do not know Christs
overcoming power.

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