Do Not Pay Tithes Give To Poor

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Once again you misrepresent this verse. Paul did not say THE law, but simply law. Obedience to the law of Christ establishes the principle of law because it is the ultimate law.

The KJV reads "the Law."

But Paul does not establish the Law for the righteous, the saved. Rather, he establishes it for the unrighteous.

Notice 1 Timothy 1:1-10. Pay particular attention to the 3rd and last verses...

1 Timothy 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Many have turned away from faith unfeigned, and have turned to that which is contrary to sound doctrine. The monetary tithe requirement is one such teaching that is contrary to sound doctrine.

Those who teach contrary to sound doctrine, Paul says the Law is for them. Why? Because they don't believe sound doctrine. They don't subscribe to the instruction to "cast out the bondwoman and her son."

Therefore, they are bound to the Law that they embrace... the Law that condemns them.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Paul's words to the young Timothy are clear.

The Law was not made for the righteous, but for the unrighteous.

They who are saved are righteous, for they are clothed in the Righteousness of He who died for them according to the Scriptures, was buried, and rose again according to the Scriptures.

The Law was not made for them, for Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to them that believe.

Those who espouse the Law after having begun in the Spirit are foolish to do so. They commit spiritual adultery and are judged according to the Law and not according to the Spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In the discourse law can only be the law to which you are trying to exclude. The reference immediately above the quote deals with the law of circumcision, and I know this is not civil law, not the law of Rome, and not some hang over law of Greece since they were not of the circumcision. Be careful in saying what the Word says. The definite article is not necessary when it is implied, and here so plainly. Please do not pursue this vein of reason farther, for there is no spiritual profit nor edification contained.

I have to disagree with your conclusions. Paul, IMO, is not referring to the law of Moses, per se, but the rule of law. Law-cultists insinuate that faith is lawless. But Paul asserts the truth that faith doesn't undermine law because it is the ultimate law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The KJV reads "the Law."

The KJV translators added something that is not there.

 

[Hizikyah]

Foolish?

Mattithyah 7:26, "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, but does not do them, is like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Dont say its only 1, 2 or 9, or the words of Yahshua will find you to be a liar.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Mattithyah 7:24, "Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, is like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:
#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mattithyah 7:26, "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, but does not do them, is like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand."

 

[mystdancer50]

Nice. People will say anything to keep 10% of God's money. As I have said, Jesus said to give everything, to give it all, and place your treasure in heaven and the Acts church did this. So, are all you anti-tithers, anti-law folks doing what He said?

It all belongs to God. If you refuse to honor Him, no matter how much Scriptural backing is given, bully for you. I, personally, Don't think it will hold any weight whatsoever when standing before Him. How much money does a steward keep if his master's money? How much do you dare keep of God's?

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Nice. People will say anything to keep 10% of God's money. As I have said, Jesus said to give everything, to give it all, and place your treasure in heaven and the Acts church did this. So, are all you anti-tithers, anti-law folks doing what He said?

The question is, are you? Don't tell us that we must give all we have if you have not done the same.

We have Scripture that says the tithe was at one time spoils of war. We have Scripture that says the tithe later was crops and livestock. What we don't have is this so-called Scripture that tells us to tithe our money. Where is it?

It all belongs to God. If you refuse to honor Him, no matter how much Scriptural backing is given, bully for you. I, personally, Don't think it will hold any weight whatsoever when standing before Him. How much money does a steward keep if his master's money? How much do you dare keep of God's?

Your false accusations toward us show your religious pride... something that God abhors. The Pharisee did not return to his home justified even though he claimed to have obeyed God concerning the tithe and then some.

Your self-righteous spirit toward those who teach what the Word of God says concerning tithing is very revealing.

 

[Sanashankar]

Well , shawsankredeemed, isn't YOUR church giving to the poor , the helpless , the needy ??/

And, it not, quit blaming God, blame your church, start doing something about it, making a difference, as you can. The Lord leads

And, if YOUR church still is NOT being a church that is growing on His 'vine' and producing FRUIT, then, leave THAT church. Simple, it's not complicated But, pray, MOST OFTEN , God wants us to become pro-active in OUR church when it's not attending to the poor of the COMMUNITY, is not involved in WORLD MISSIONS . These things are important and ALL churches, in one way or another should be helping other ministries, and, christianchat.com is a ministry too that people should help , especially those receiving blessings here. Or, are just HERE. Some just think they're saving the lost already-Chrsitians because they don't believe doctrine exactly as them, or, even close to them.

NO!

That is not God's plan, He wants us to GIVE and where we are our HEART is also. So, christianchat.com could be where your heart is now, is it not? So....... go figure and figure one dollar or whatever is something God is asking you to figure in to your ALREADY giving to your church. I mention other ministries too, like World Vision and World Concern and others that's mission in life is saving others.

LOL, so NOT only are you to support your church as God IS calling you to do, but there is more out there to support too

I have seen a lot of churches claiming to be helping the poor and the needy....a "not so famous church" here makes 5lakhs a Sunday. So an estimate of 25lakhs a month. That will be 154625000 us dollar a month...I do my part brother... whatever God has commanded us to do, God is giving me the strength to obey it.
I don't believe in the churches which ask tithes. because that is unscriptural. Why should i go to a church that teaches something that is opposite to what is written in the bible. I wont do that. If these churches really have interest in helping the poor people with the money they get, so many children here would have gone to schools..so many people would have not known what hunger is...Actually our state government is far better than these church peope. They are giving every family under the poverty line food grains free of cost.

 

[jahsoul]

Nice. People will say anything to keep 10% of God's money. As I have said, Jesus said to give everything, to give it all, and place your treasure in heaven and the Acts church did this. So, are all you anti-tithers, anti-law folks doing what He said?

It all belongs to God. If you refuse to honor Him, no matter how much Scriptural backing is given, bully for you. I, personally, Don't think it will hold any weight whatsoever when standing before Him. How much money does a steward keep if his master's money? How much do you dare keep of God's?

So if I'm anti law and you are not following the law as presented, wouldn't that place us both in the same situation. Also, I think you really need to reread some of the things that you are presenting? The Church in Acts laid money at the feet of the Apostle and it was distributed to the saints. This was also a free will offering, as seen in the beginning of Acts 5. And by the words in your post, if Jesus told us to give everything but you still have 90%, wouldn't that place you in disobedience?

But here is the question? How are you (personally) honoring God by doing something he hasn't told you to do and on top of that doing it completely wrong? If anything, you are honoring Constantine, from where this monetary tithe stems from. So, I highly doubt that when I'm standing before God, he will tell me "Joseph, I know you gave generously to the church and to those in need, but because you never participated in the man made concept of monetary tithing, you are condemned!"

 

[mystdancer50]

The question is, are you? Don't tell us that we must give all we have if you have not done the same.

I do not have an issue giving 10% plus offerings besides and, yes, once my debt is gone, due to my selfish and ungodly choices to spend what isn't mine, I shall be giving everything. The thing to consider is all of the anti-tithers insist that Jesus doesn't talk about tithing and they insist that they are following what He says, so as not to give 10%. Well, what He says is give Me everything, hence the question I posed.

We have Scripture that says the tithe was at one time spoils of war. We have Scripture that says the tithe later was crops and livestock. What we don't have is this so-called Scripture that tells us to tithe our money. Where is it?

Hmmm....so the spoils of war didn't involve money? Good to know.

Your false accusations toward us show your religious pride... something that God abhors. The Pharisee did not return to his home justified even though he claimed to have obeyed God concerning the tithe and then some.

No, but Jesus did say that the Pharisees tithed but didn't love and it would be better if they did BOTH. I don't have 'religious pride', I have a firm belief that God owns everything, INCLUDING ALL THE MONEY HE LETS ME STEWARD FOR HIM, and so if He wants 10% or if He wants all of it, I'm not going to sit here and deny Him it based on a different economy than the one I live in. If I made my sole living by bartering with crops and no money, I would tithe my crops. But seeing as I make a wage for my hours of service and my work, which we all know crops are a product of a farmers work, then I will tithe my earnings. God said to tithe your increase and the best of your increase. So, that doesn't include money?

Your self-righteous spirit toward those who teach what the Word of God says concerning tithing is very revealing.

I don't know how many times I have quoted Scripture to back what I say and all you guys do ignore what I write and post your repetitive arguments.

 

[mystdancer50]

So if I'm anti law and you are not following the law as presented, wouldn't that place us both in the same situation. Also, I think you really need to reread some of the things that you are presenting? The Church in Acts laid money at the feet of the Apostle and it was distributed to the saints. This was also a free will offering, as seen in the beginning of Acts 5. And by the words in your post, if Jesus told us to give everything but you still have 90%, wouldn't that place you in disobedience?

You don't know how much I give, so don't say I'm keeping 90%. Note that tithing and offerings are what we are called to give.

Secondly, I made some selfish choices and thus have debt, which I am aggressively paying off. Once I do so, I will be living the life that Jesus called me to live, to justly and rightly steward His money in my life, among other things such as my time and my gifts, and I will not be buying into the world's must have mentality any longer. I will be able, at that point, to truly give all to Him in the realm of money, which I cannot do yet, which I am sad about. The one good thing that has come from these discussions is that I have examined my own management of God's money and am making changes accordingly. Can you say the same?

But here is the question? How are you (personally) honoring God by doing something he hasn't told you to do and on top of that doing it completely wrong? If anything, you are honoring Constantine, from where this monetary tithe stems from. So, I highly doubt that when I'm standing before God, he will tell me "Joseph, I know you gave generously to the church and to those in need, but because you never participated in the man made concept of monetary tithing, you are condemned!"

How do you know what God has personally told me to do? It would be easier, wouldn't it, to deny the tithe and just give when I feel like it? Everything is God's and Jesus said to sell everything, give to the poor, and store your treasure in Heaven. So, do you think that God looks down on my faithful 10% and offerings besides? If you do, you don't know Him at all.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

I do not have an issue giving 10% plus offerings besides and, yes, once my debt is gone, due to my selfish and ungodly choices to spend what isn't mine, I shall be giving everything.

Until you do get to the position that you do give everything away, you have no business telling others they should be giving their possessions away. First remove the beam from thine own eye, then you will see clearly to remove a mote from their eye.

The thing to consider is all of the anti-tithers insist that Jesus doesn't talk about tithing

You accuse falsely. I have never said that Jesus does not speak about tithing. You want so much to justify condemning me that you are willing to lie against me. Not very Christlike, if you ask me. Matter of fact, it is in perfect imitation of the Pharisees who condemned others to justify their self-righteousness.

and they insist that they are following what He says, so as not to give 10%.

YOu cannot produce one iota of Scripture where Jesus commands us to tithe our money. Why do you lie against us as you do?

Well, what He says is give Me everything, hence the question I posed.

Remove the beam from your own eye...

Hmmm....so the spoils of war didn't involve money? Good to know.

They may have, maybe not. Scripture does not say what they consisted of besides food and articles of clothing. But even if they did contain money, Abram never claimed that money as his own. Also, he was never said to have tithed of the riches he had before going on his rescue mission, nor ever again is he said to have tithed more than that one event in the Valley of Shaveh. Deal with the facts written in Scripture.

No, but Jesus did say that the Pharisees tithed but didn't love and it would be better if they did BOTH. I don't have 'religious pride', I have a firm belief that God owns everything, INCLUDING ALL THE MONEY HE LETS ME STEWARD FOR HIM, and so if He wants 10% or if He wants all of it, I'm not going to sit here and deny Him it based on a different economy than the one I live in. If I made my sole living by bartering with crops and no money, I would tithe my crops. But seeing as I make a wage for my hours of service and my work, which we all know crops are a product of a farmers work, then I will tithe my earnings. God said to tithe your increase and the best of your increase. So, that doesn't include money?

No, it doesn't include money. When God said to tithe the increase, (by the way, He did not say the best of the increase either) He defined what the tithe was to consist of. Money was not tithed. Everywhere in Scripture where you see the Israelites tithing, it was agricultural, though all Israelites had money... even the farmers and herders had money.

I don't know how many times I have quoted Scripture to back what I say and all you guys do ignore what I write and post your repetitive arguments.

You twist Scripture, md. That is evidenet even it your post I am replying to here.

 

[mystdancer50]

I am bowing out of this thread. Usually, I can keep from getting worked up and arguing, but I can't seem to not do that here, so I've decided to step out. I don't come onto CC to argue. I am not going to visit this thread again, but I enjoyed the conversation, up until my last few responses.

I firmly believe in tithing. As firmly, I daresay, as some don't believe in it. I have more important things to do than argue semantics and, as I said, since I can't seem to keep myself from arguing, I'm stepping out of the discussion.

Truly, if I offended anyone, allow me to apologize. Sometimes my passion for God and obeying Him takes over and I am blunt and strong in my responses. I really do try not to go there, but on those rare occasions when I do, I must choose to step away.

Thanks all and I'll see you in other threads around CC. Be blessed and have a great day.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Before you leave, md, how about giving us the Scripture that proves this claim of yours above is true?

Note that tithing and offerings are what we are called to give.

 

[jahsoul]

Hi myst,

You don't know how much I give, so don't say I'm keeping 90%. Note that tithing and offerings are what we are called to give.

Secondly, I made some selfish choices and thus have debt, which I am aggressively paying off. Once I do so, I will be living the life that Jesus called me to live, to justly and rightly steward His money in my life, among other things such as my time and my gifts, and I will not be buying into the world's must have mentality any longer. I will be able, at that point, to truly give all to Him in the realm of money, which I cannot do yet, which I am sad about. The one good thing that has come from these discussions is that I have examined my own management of God's money and am making changes accordingly. Can you say the same?

I didn't assume anything with what you give but by the measure that you use to weight this matter ("Jesus said to give everything, give it all.."), you yourself are found guilty if you even keep 1%. That's not the way that I look at it but from your words, that is your outlook on the matter. The way you choose to live your life is a matter between you and God, but my prayer is that once you make that transition, it isn't used as an outward symbol of greater sanctification, if that makes sense? If God put that in you, so be it, but don't let that be a cause to look at the man who chooses to enjoy the natural things that God has given him as someone beneath you.

And to answer your question, having and being without made me examine money management.

How do you know what God has personally told me to do? It would be easier, wouldn't it, to deny the tithe and just give when I feel like it? Everything is God's and Jesus said to sell everything, give to the poor, and store your treasure in Heaven. So, do you think that God looks down on my faithful 10% and offerings besides? If you do, you don't know Him at all.

So God himself told you to pay tithes because God himself told Moses the purpose and statutes of the tithe. Again, you do what you feel God is leading you to do but I believe that we need clarification on the scripture that you keep referencing; a little Matthew 6 sprinkled into Matthew 19.

First, in Matthew 19, God didn't tell us to sell all that we have and give it to the poor, but he told it to the rich young ruler specifically, because Jesus knew that it was one thing that he placed over servitude to God and that was his wealth/money. Using that verse and saying that Jesus told you to do that is equivalent of going to the closest lake and trying to walk across because Jesus told Peter to. And this is not an insult and I hope you don't take it as such.

Lastly, I never once said that God looks down on what you give and neither do I but that's where we differ. It seems like you look down on those who don't tithe, and because you do, you may feel that God does; he doesn't. Considering that the tithe as done today wasn't commanded by God, I speak with full faith and boldness that this doesn't affect anyway that God looks at me.

 

[Kerry]

I was wondering why Jesus was watching the box where the people put their money in for the temple. If it is no never min d why was He watching it?

 

[Kerry]

Thats where He saw the widow put two pennies and said she has given more than all.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

I was wondering why Jesus was watching the box where the people put their money in for the temple. If it is no never min d why was He watching it?

Who said money was no never mind?

He was watching the box for that moment when the widow would come in to give her gift so He could teach His Disciples a lesson on giving.

had absolutely nothing to do with tithing.

 

[Kerry]

Tithing is giving. I do not and have never paid tithes, I give them.

 

[Kerry]

You know what Standswithafist or whatever your tag name is. Your are right it is not a rule, but if you are looking for a set of rules, then you are negating the work of Christ. What rule did Abraham obey by giving Melchizedek 10 % of every thing he had? There was no rule as there was no law. He gave from his heart and being the father of faith, should we not follow his example? We have liberty in Christ which means there are no rules only what rules our heart.