Do We Even Care About the TRUTH?

[RedTent]

This thread reminds me of a snake pit with vicious snakes at the bottom, mouths open ready to bite. They watch for law, or the Old Testament, or any covenant made before the new one was made. When anyone says it is scripture we need to know of they attack and bite. Not only attacking any of this scripture but the people daring to tell of the scripture, with viciousness and threats.

Paul, in his ministry, allowed for differences, these people don't.

The idea that anyone can be in the new covenant, and still know of promises of God made before only means to them that if you know anything of the old you are outside of the church, heathen. You are treated like 1 Corinthians 5 says to treat sexually immorality in the church, without the safeguards of that chapter.

 

[chubbena]

I sure wish you folks would step up out of the old testament covenant and partake of the one we have now. The one that gives us salvation thru faith. The one that God sacrificed His Son on the cross for.

I challenge you , or anyone else, to refute what I said in post 143 and 152 using scripture. You can't because it is scripture. Forsake the law and live in the "perfect law of liberty" with all spiritual jews, not the jews of the flesh.

If such is the case, Paul should not have quoted anything from the so-called OT.
Would you throw away the covenant made with Abraham if you could?
Keep on false accusing anyone who love the whole Word of God would certainly do you good.

 

[Karraster]

I'd say Isaiah 59:17.
The passage says:
Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear. But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear. For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt. Your lips have spoken falsely, and your tongue mutters wicked things. No one calls for justice; no one pleads a case with integrity. They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies; they conceive trouble and give birth to evil. They hatch the eggs of vipers and spin a spider’s web. Whoever eats their eggs will die, and when one is broken, an adder is hatched. Their cobwebs are useless for clothing; they cannot cover themselves with what they make. Their deeds are evil deeds, and acts of violence are in their hands. Their feet rush into sin; they are swift to shed innocent blood. They pursue evil schemes; acts of violence mark their ways. The way of peace they do not know; there is no justice in their paths. They have turned them into crooked roads; no one who walks along them will know peace. So justice is far from us, and righteousness does not reach us. We look for light, but all is darkness; for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows. Like the blind we grope along the wall, feeling our way like people without eyes. At midday we stumble as if it were twilight; among the strong, we are like the dead. We all growl like bears; we moan mournfully like doves. We look for justice, but find none; for deliverance, but it is far away. For our offenses are many in your sight, and our sins testify against us. Our offenses are ever with us, and we acknowledge our iniquities: rebellion and treachery against the Lord, turning our backs on our God, inciting revolt and oppression, uttering lies our hearts have conceived. So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance; truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter. Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.
The Lord looked and was displeased that there was no justice. He saw that there was no one, he was appalled that there was no one to intervene; so his own arm achieved salvation for him, and his own righteousness sustained him. He put on righteousness as his breastplate, and the helmet of salvation on his head; he put on the garments of vengeance and wrapped himself in zeal as in a cloak. According to what they have done, so will he repay wrath to his enemies and retribution to his foes; he will repay the islands their due. From the west, people will fear the name of the Lord, and from the rising of the sun, they will revere his glory. For he will come like a pent-up flood that the breath of the Lord drives along. “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins.

Of course those liken that "armour" to a roman soldier don't want you to know...

Leveticus8
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the Lord commanded Moses. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the laver and his foot, to sanctify them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron’s head, and anointed him, to sanctify him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And Moses brought Aaron’s sons, and put coats upon them, and girded them with girdles, and put bonnets upon them; as the Lord commanded Moses.
Peter2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

To read about the duty of the priests of Yah is very humbling. It was a great responsibility, and pertained to more than I know, or could post here. Part of their job was to bless the people, and all nations.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves; 8we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; 9persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;

A remnant is small, it seems we are surrounded, but greater is He that is in us than those of the enemy. Hold fast to faith in our Creator, He has brought us this far and He will carry us home.

 

[phil112]

If such is the case, Paul should not have quoted anything from the so-called OT.
(1)Would you throw away the covenant made with Abraham if you could?
(2)Keep on false accusing anyone who love the whole Word of God would certainly do you good.

1. I didn't make a covenant with Abraham. Israel did. My covenant is with Christ. The new covenant He ushered in with His blood. It has been offered to you. Why will you not accept it?
2. Show me one, just one, place where I have falsely accused anyone. Post what they said and my response to it. Let's see you back up your idle chatter.

 

[phil112]

....................The idea that anyone can be in the new covenant, and still know of promises of God made before ...................

We should call pretzel girl as much as you twist words. We all know of the promises God made Israel. They were with Israel, not us. The bible tells us that time and again. You reject clear scripture time and again.
Knowing about it is fine. You teach for doctrine the commandments of men. You have been told time and again. Observe the sabbath if you wish. Nothing wrong with that. But no, you teach it as a commandment and it is not. The bible tells us so. I have brought all scripture to you, and all you can do, just like the other judaizers, is to fault me for reading from the word of God.

 

[oldernotwiser]

ok ..... i apologize. i tend to react to the emphasis on military imagery (i know paul used it) i really react to the misuse of christianity that has allowed us to honor men and women with crosses ...... the victoria cross, the iron cross, the distinguished flying cross ...... as a reward for killing others who they should have been sitting with sharing the body and blood of christ. my apologies again

 

[WomanLovesTX]

i don't know what translation you are using...but here is what my NASB says..."Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons."

i also looked at the greek text earlier and it is in agreement with the NASB translation...in fact the greek makes it even more clear that 'the first day of the week' is referring to when jesus rose...

Rachel, I am looking first at KJV and seeing the same old misuse of the translation.

Here are 8 verses using the same phrase "first day of the week".

In Greek, there is no word for "day"....so it is inserted in italics.

The word "first" G3391
μία
mia
mee'-ah
Irregular feminine of G1520; one or first: - a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.

This does not automatically mean first day of the week....but as I hope to show you...it is the first Sabbath of the counting of Sabbaths that leads up to the 50th day of Shavuot/Pentecost.

Next we have "week", which is in all 8 verses below as G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

LXX related word(s)
H7676 shabat
H7677 shabbaton

Here are the 8 verses.

(Mat 28:1) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

(Mar 16:2) And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

(Mar 16:9) Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

(Luk 24:1) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

(Joh 20:1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

(Joh 20:19) Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

(Act 20:7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

(1Co 16:2) Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Please notice the context of Acts 20:7 in the earlier verse 6: Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Immediately following Passover is the 7 days of unleavened bread. The first Sabbath after Passover is Firstfruits and each of the 7 Sabbaths are counted until you reach 49 days and then the next day, the 50th day is Shavuot/Pentecost.

In all 8 verses above they are referring to the first of the Sabbath days that are being counted up to Shavuot/Pentecost and NOT THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK!!

But, hey, I understand how hard it is to unlearn bad doctrine.

 

[Hizikyah]

We should call pretzel girl as much as you twist words. We all know of the promises God made Israel. They were with Israel, not us. The bible tells us that time and again. You reject clear scripture time and again.
Knowing about it is fine. You teach for doctrine the commandments of men. You have been told time and again. Observe the sabbath if you wish. Nothing wrong with that. But no, you teach it as a commandment and it is not. The bible tells us so. I have brought all scripture to you, and all you can do, just like the other judaizers, is to fault me for reading from the word of God.

View attachment 77798

You said: " We all know of the promises God made Israel. They were with Israel, not us."

Abraham was the first Hebrew...

Why reject the revealed Scriptures?:

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalam 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

 

[chubbena]

Leveticus8
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the Lord commanded Moses. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the laver and his foot, to sanctify them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron’s head, and anointed him, to sanctify him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And Moses brought Aaron’s sons, and put coats upon them, and girded them with girdles, and put bonnets upon them; as the Lord commanded Moses.
Peter2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

To read about the duty of the priests of Yah is very humbling. It was a great responsibility, and pertained to more than I know, or could post here. Part of their job was to bless the people, and all nations.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves; 8we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; 9persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;

A remnant is small, it seems we are surrounded, but greater is He that is in us than those of the enemy. Hold fast to faith in our Creator, He has brought us this far and He will carry us home.

Never thought it's related to Leviticus. Thanks!

 

[chubbena]

1. I didn't make a covenant with Abraham. Israel did. My covenant is with Christ. The new covenant He ushered in with His blood. It has been offered to you. Why will you not accept it?

No you didn't make a covenant with Abraham. Neither did Israel. God did.
And Christ came because of His promise and His covenant with Abraham. If one denies the covenant with Abraham, he denies the promised seed.

2. Show me one, just one, place where I have falsely accused anyone. Post what they said and my response to it. Let's see you back up your idle chatter.

I sure wish you folks would step up out of the old testament covenant and partake of the one we have now. The one that gives us salvation thru faith. The one that God sacrificed His Son on the cross for.

By saying this, you falsely accused many of us, who have faith in Christ, have not.

 

[CRC]

The "truth" that Jesus said would "set men free" was not a continuation of adherence to the Mosaic Law. Rather it was "Truth" centered upon the pivotal role that Christ would play in the outworking of God's purpose! (John 14:6) Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

That is the "Truth"we must all acknowledge.

 

[RedTent]

To sum up, there is a huge fight, vicious biting. It starts with Acts 15:1-2. I'll copy and paste.

Acts 15:1-2 Then certain individuals came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. 2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to discuss this question with the apostles and the elders.

This idea that obedience to physically doing what was only to be the sign of spiritually doing had to be stopped. Circumcision, for example, of the foreskin meant nothing in itself ever, when it was used it was to follow circumcision of the heart. In all scripture, obedience always is to be in response to faith. Obedience certainly can't be used in any other way, especially when obedience is used for salvation. So the fight was on and we are still going at it.

It has always centered on Paul, poor guy. They were going to stone him over it at first, saying he was teaching against the Torah. No one doubted that God was in the Torah and that was for everyone back then, now even that is entering in the fight. Paul proved it wasn't so back then, but now instead of stoning him saying he teaches it, people are saying he taught it and it was right so they will follow him. They want to stone anyone who follows the Torah.

To really get it going hot and heavy today, back then this fight was said to be about the "Law of Moses". To the people back then it was what they called all the things Jews were to do to mark themselves as Jews physically. Today, it means either pieces of the Torah or all of it. Paul was talking about one thing, and we quote Paul, talking about something entirely different.

 

[phil112]

...........By saying this, you falsely accused many of us, who have faith in Christ, have not.

Christ gave Paul the word. By rejecting the word of Paul, one rejects the word of Christ. Directly. By aligning your sympathy with law keepers, rather than condemning such action, as the bible teaches, you share in that transgression.

........................This idea that obedience to physically doing what was only to be the sign of spiritually doing had to be stopped. ...............

You mean like saying one has to physically observe the sabbath and "keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment"? Is that what you mean?

 

[RedTent]

Christ gave Paul the word. By rejecting the word of Paul, one rejects the word of Christ. Directly. By aligning your sympathy with law keepers, rather than condemning such action, as the bible teaches, you share in that transgression.

You mean like saying one has to physically observe the sabbath and "keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment"? Is that what you mean?

I think that your mind is so caught up in the physical world that it would be impossible for you to know what I mean. I read your posts. "law keepers" "judaizers" "reject Paul" God is much bigger, scripture is much more complete, than you can even imagine.

 

[tourist]

Too much info to absorb and process.

 

[RedTent]

Too much info to absorb and process.

What a thought! My body broke down in such a way that I had to put it to bed, but I didn't feel sick, so I devoted all my time to bible study for several years, and just plain bible coupled with histories of that time. Lots and lots of absorbing and processing. My conclusion was that all it takes was to learn the main theme of scripture, God's plan for our redemption. All the other pieces simply must fit into that plan, every verse is about that plan, and we must not get distracted into separate ideas that don't fit. We also must not throw out any piece of it saying it doesn't fit, or add any piece to it.

 

[chubbena]

Christ gave Paul the word. By rejecting the word of Paul, one rejects the word of Christ. Directly. By aligning your sympathy with law keepers, rather than condemning such action, as the bible teaches, you share in that transgression.

You mean like saying one has to physically observe the sabbath and "keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment"? Is that what you mean?

And Paul said: I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets. Do you accept the word of Paul?
I don't see your answer to the covenant of Abraham. Do you now accept you are a part of the covenant or not?