Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[Ralph-]

Which, for the hundred and second time, I don't believe.

You do. You just refuse to see that what you say makes grace a license to sin. But feel free to tell us what making grace a license to sin actually looks like.

How many sins were paid for by Jesus, Ralph?

All of them, except the sin of unrepentant unbelief. There is no sacrifice available for the sin of rejecting the only sacrifice for sin that exists. Think about it.


Hypergrace doctrine is a joke.

 

[Ralph-]

Wow. I'm serious, Ralph - how in the world can't you see your contradictions?

Don't tell me!

Tell your once saved always saved high-five, amen buddies in the 'Not By Works' cesspool thread.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is imperative that we as students of the Master do not use His words out of context, and the only way to keep them in context is to study and learn all He teaches. Otherwise a person baseshis faith on his own standard and not the perfection of the Holy Spirit.

What you are saying here is that you are giving people the idea that they can continue in their sins and have no relationship with Jesus ,just so long as they believe he is the saviour. You encourage sin to people, and don't encourage them to fight it. Jesus told us to resist the devil and he will flee from us., and if that is not fighting against sin, then I don't know what is.. He told the adultress woman to go her way and sin no more unless something worse would happen to her. That statement still stands today

 

[Ralph-]

Oh, I see. So if they believe a single part, they're all in.

Ridiculous.

And as far as the "unchanged in sin" part - how many times do you sin a day, Ralph?

Seriously! Ask a Calvinist 'P' once saved always saved believer. They will tell you.

 

[Budman]

What you are saying here is that you are giving people the idea that they can continue in their sins and have no relationship with Jesus ,just so long as they believe he is the saviour. You encourage sin to people, and don't encourage them to fight it. Jesus told us to resist the devil and he will flee from us., and if that is not fighting against sin, then I don't know what is.. He told the adultress woman to go her way and sin no more unless something worse would happen to her. That statement still stands today

Is this addressed to me?

If so, I do not encourage people to sin. We should live righteously. All I'm saying is if you believe you must do good works to maintain salvation, or "prove" you are saved, that is a terrible error.

Atheists can do good works, even better works, than most Christians do.

And placing yourself back under the Law negates salvation as a gift.


Oh, and do you really believe the adulterous women went away and didn't commit another sin during the rest of her life?

 

[Budman]

You do. You just refuse to see that what you say makes grace a license to sin. But feel free to tell us what making grace a license to sin actually looks like.

Is it by sinning every day, Ralph?

Oops - do you do that?

All of them, except the sin of unrepentant unbelief. There is no sacrifice available for the sin of rejecting the only sacrifice for sin that exists. Think about it

Glad you agree!

So, why then are you working so hard?

 

[Budman]

Seriously! Ask a Calvinist 'P' once saved always saved believer. They will tell you.

I'd rather ask you.

How many times a day do you sin, Ralph?

 

[Gabriel2020]

That is not my problem what she did afterwards, way before my time. And the only good works are the fruits of the spirit. People are getting good works confused. The good works of God and the good works of the world are two different things. They do not compare and are separated from each other. If not you would mixing the traditions of men in with the tradition of God.

 

[Budman]

That is not my problem what she did afterwards, way before my time. And the only good works are the fruits of the spirit. People are getting good works confused. The good works of God and the good works of the world are two different things. They do not compare and are separated from each other. If not you would mixing the traditions of men in with the tradition of God.

Well, you were the one who brought up the "go and sin no more" part.

What good works can a Christian do that an Atheist can't?

 

[Gabriel2020]

The ten commandments for starters. They are friends with the world, which means they agree with the world and all of the world's decisions, making themselves partakers of the world. A true christian is the world's enemy, and the world is an enemy to a true christians.. Some christians are living their lives in the the way of baalam ,the prophet. Being friends with the world and God at the same time. Selling each other out to the other.

 

[Budman]

The ten commandments for starters. They are friends with the world, which means they agree with the world and all of the world's decisions, making themselves partakers of the world. A true christian is the world's enemy, and the world is an enemy to a true christians.. Some christians are living their lives in the the way of baalam ,the prophet. Being friends with the world and God at the same time. Selling each other out to the other.

Would you say Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians?

Because they spend their whole lives doing good works.

 

[Gabriel2020]

If they are not Holy Ghost filled and are not lead by the spirit, they are not Christians.. The reason they call themselves Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses in the first place. A true believer would want to be called a Christian after Jesus Christ and not by a name of some weak flesh. The only witness to God and for God is Jesus Christ, always have been and always will be. We as Christians are witnesses to the gospel and the word of God.

 

[Studyman]

Is this addressed to me?

If so, I do not encourage people to sin. We should live righteously. All I'm saying is if you believe you must do good works to maintain salvation, or "prove" you are saved, that is a terrible error.

Atheists can do good works, even better works, than most Christians do.

And placing yourself back under the Law negates salvation as a gift.


Oh, and do you really believe the adulterous women went away and didn't commit another sin during the rest of her life?

I will be willing to bet she didn't commit Adultery the rest of her life. It's called "Repentance" and Works worthy of repentance. This is what Paul taught.


Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they (All) should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God,( "Helper" as Jesus promised) I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Same light, same call for repentance.

I know this woman "loved" Jesus enough not to make a fool of Him for giving her another chance.

 

[Budman]

If they are not Holy Ghost filled and are not lead by the spirit, they are not Christians.. The reason they call themselves Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses in the first place. A true believer would want to be called a Christian after Jesus Christ and not by a name of some weak flesh. The only witness to God and for God is Jesus Christ, always have been and always will be. Wehas Christians are witnesses to the gospel and the word of God.

My point is, if good works are a marker of true belief, they would be super Christians.

 

[Budman]

I will be willing to bet she didn't commit Adultery the rest of her life

That wasn't the question.

The question is, did she sin again after Jesus said to sin no more?

And if repentance is turning away from sins - have you?

Or do you still sin - every...single... day?

 

[Redeemed2015]

Divide out the laws that Jesus did not have to keep (because he never sinned) and, walla, you have the law of Christ.

I have never seen such an definition given in scripture. How about we let scripture tell us what the Law of Christ is. Let's say the Law of Christ is exactly that, the Law that is of Christ or given by Christ. And what Law did Christ give according to Scripture. We can look at The Messiah's giving of the 2 Greatest Commandments in Matthew 22: "Love the L-RD your G-D with all of your heart, all of your soul, and with all of your mind" and "Love your neighbor as yourself". These two given respectively in the Law already in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 and referenced as Messiah as qualifiers for all of the Law and the Prophets; meaning that all of the law and the Prophets can be hung under one of two categories: Loving G-D or Loving your Neighbor.

Which completely aligns with scripture such as Ecclesiastes 12:13 which tells us, "For this is the whole duty of mankind, that you shall fear G-D and Keep HIS commandments," as well as 1 John 5:3 that teach us exactly how we are to Love G-D, "For this is the Love of G-D: to keep HIS commandments. And HIS commandments are not burdensome".

We even have scripture with the exact words of Christ telling us exactly the Doctrine(which includes the Laws) that HE brought.
John 7:16 - "I do not come bringing my own doctrine but the doctrine of HIM who sent me."

And who sent The Messiah? The Father!
What is the doctrine(teaching/instructions) of the The Father? The Law given by G-D through Moses.

So according to scripture, The Law of Christ is exactly the same as the Law of G-D, as Christ did not come bringing His own doctrine, but The Fathers'(John 7:16); which also according to scripture it is our duty to keep(Ecclesiastes 12:13), our instructions for Loving G-D(1 John 5:3), what identifies us with Christ(1 John 2:3), as well as identifies us along with our faith in Yeshua as Saints in the Last Days(Revelations 14:12).

[/QUOTE]

 

[JaumeJ]

Anyone is able to execute good works, but if they work without faith in Jesus Christ it is spiritually moot.

Jesus has gained the Kingdom for all who believe Him, but if they do not obey Him, their faith is no faith at all.

My point is, if good works are a marker of true belief, they would be super Christians.

 

[Budman]

Anyone is able to execute good works, but if they work without faith in Jesus Christ it is spiritually moot.

Which again, is my point. Good works cannot be the "super sign" that one is saved simply because anyone can do them.

 

[JaumeJ]

Once we know we are in Christ we avail ourselves t Him. The works we do are the works graced us by God.

Do not think that all must be like the Apostles or like Jesus, by like I meanjust like. No he serves who waits on the Lord,. Prayer is works. Even praising God is works though it soundsoffish......Anything that is to glorify our Maker is works.and if it does, it is from Him.............. Pardon the unspellchecked I got out of bed to add this bcause I realized I did not include this...j

Which again, is my point. Good works cannot be the "super sign" that one is saved simply because anyone can do them.

 

[Studyman]

That wasn't the question.

The question is, did she sin again after Jesus said to sin no more?

And if repentance is turning away from sins - have you?

Or do you still sin - every...single... day?

Paul explains my thoughts on this perfectly.

Phil. 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, (Mistakes, past sins,) and reaching forth unto those things which are before, ( lessons learned from chastisements that I may grow in the Grace and knowledge of the Word which became Flesh)

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.


15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

The religious men of Caleb's day also told him he couldn't do as God instructed him, But Caleb believed in God and it was counted unto him as faith.

23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:
24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

I don't buy into your religion that Jesus told this woman to do something she was incapable of doing. I do, however, see that it is perfectly in line with scriptures that there would be religious folks who would tell her she couldn't.