Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[Nehemiah6]

It is obsolete, outdated, and will disappear (Hebrews 8:13)

There's is no question that there is a great deal of confusion about "the Law" because too many do not rightly divide the Word of Truth.

1. The term "the Law" can be applied to different things at different times, depending on the context. It can apply to (a) all Scripture, (b) just the Old Testament, (c) just the Old Covenant, (d) just the Torah (first five books of the Bible), or (e) just the Ten Commandments.

2. The Scripture quoted above from Hebrews applies to (1) the Levitical priesthood, (2) the whole sacrificial system of the tabernacle and the temple, (3) all the ceremonial observances including feasts and festivals, holy days, new moons, sabbaths, etc. IOW the one great sacrifice for sins for ever by Christ abolished all of these, which were types and shadows.

3. The Ten Commandments -- the moral and spiritual laws of God -- are eternal. They were written on tablets of stone in the Old Covenant, but they are written on the hearts and minds of believers in the New Covenant. They are also embedded in the Law of Christ, the Law of Love, the Law of Liberty,also called the Royal Law.

4. The Ten Commandments were distilled by Christ into the two greatest commandments (which are found in the Torah), and both these commandments boil down to just one word -- Love or Agape or Charity. So the Ten Commandments were definitely not abolished, but are embedded in the Law of Love (Rom 13).

5. Christians are not under the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) but even so there are four commandments from the Law of Moses which still apply to all Christians. See Acts 15.

6. The grace of God is not a license to sin, but when Christian walk in the Spirit, they are in fact applying the Law of Love to their relationship with God and men.

7. The works of the Law were never meant to save anyone, but those who follow the moral and spiritual precepts of the Law of Moses are actually following the Law of Christ.

8. The moral and spiritual principles of sabbath observance (rest and worship) have been transferred to the Lord's Day. Therefore there is no mention of sabbath observance in Acts 15.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

5. Christians are not under the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) but even so there are four commandments from the Law of Moses which still apply to all Christians. See Acts 15.

Paul said eating idol sacrifices was nothing, so the Jerusalem council laying that restriction upon believing gentiles is nonsensical. In fact, those 4 rules mentioned in Acts 15:20, 29 were an incipient form of the Noahide laws that gentiles had to observe to worship in synagogues. They had nothing to do with the law of Moses and they have nothing to do with any Christian apart from that specific context.

 

[Shamah]

Paul said eating idol sacrifices was nothing, so the Jerusalem council laying that restriction upon believing gentiles is nonsensical. In fact, those 4 rules mentioned in Acts 15:20, 29 were an incipient form of the Noahide laws that gentiles had to observe to worship in synagogues. They had nothing to do with the law of Moses and they have nothing to do with any Christian apart from that specific context.

In the final message written to humans Yahshua/Jesus says it is not ok to ea food sacrificed to idols:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols." [/FONT]

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[DustyRhodes]

The short answer is NO!

Gal.5: Christ of no value
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Matthew 22: [SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and greatest commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

So in effect if you are bound to the 10 commandments you are actually diminishing
what what Jesus said to do which means you are doing the minimum and not lifting
yourself to the new law of grace. Love fulfills all the law, every law ever written.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In the final message written to humans Yahshua/Jesus says it is not ok to ea food sacrificed to idols:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols." [/FONT]

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I don't take that literally. That symbolizes partaking of doctrines of demons.

 

[Shamah]

I don't take that literally. That symbolizes partaking of doctrines of demons.

You are free to view it how you choose, I personally take it for what it says. As it is in the "OT", repeated in Acts and shown here.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are free to view it how you choose, I personally take it for what it says. As it is in the "OT", repeated in Acts and shown here.

While ignoring what Paul wrote on the matter.

 

[Shamah]

While ignoring what Paul wrote.

LOL.

Could I not say the same to you, but

ignoring the Torah

ignoring the guidance of the Spirit at the Jerusalem council

ignoring Yahshua/Jesus in Revelation

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

I'll tell you what when we each meet the judg, and I know we are both imperfect, however you can tell Him Paul told you it was ok, I will tell Him I sought to obey His words. It is my hope that we both enter the kingdom.

Tell me this who is correct here, the pharisees and Paul both say "Jesus is equal/or He claims He is equal to the Father" Yahshua/Jesus says the Father is greater.

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Philippians 2:6, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:28, "You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."[/FONT]

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Is He equal or is the Father greater?

I will tell you nowI trust Yahshua's words, the Father is greater, for Yahsua is the snet One we must hear and obey (Deut.18:18-19, Acts 3:22-23)
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[gb9]

While ignoring what Paul wrote on the matter.

they do not take Paul's teaching as authoritative Scripture. they quote 1st John verbatim about command keeping, ( John is not talking about the Torah, he is speaking of believe in the name of the Son and love one another, not Torah and Sabbath ), but are very picky about Paul.

just more selective editing by the Hebrew roots/ sda crowd.

 

[Ralph-]

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Dead men are free of the law.

In context you will see that being delivered from the law means

1) not being under the condemnation of the law anymore, and

2) not being under the power of the law to make you sin anymore.

But the church has been taught that not being under the law means you don't have to do what it says anymore. That's absurd. (Yes, there are various ceremonial laws you do not have to keep anymore, like sacrificing animals, etc.).


In addition, you are no longer under the law as a way to be justified, and you are no longer under various ceremonial laws .


Paul made it very clear that faith in Christ upholds the law of Moses-Romans 3:31

And whoever serves in the newness of spirit is keeping the new commandments.
Which are not the old commandments.

What new commandments do we keep that were not in the old commandments?

And the new commandments of Jesus aren’t old laws that fit your notion of various commandments that remain, either.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Why don't you list some and let's check.

 

[mailmandan]

Since the entire old covenant law was nailed to the cross, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. He abolished the old covenant to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the New Command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

More exhaustive list:

Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22,23,24; 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23; 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9

Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15

Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9

Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2

Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11

Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14

Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28

Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20

Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

LOL.

Could I not say the same to you, but

ignoring the Torah

ignoring the guidance of the Spirit at the Jerusalem council

ignoring Yahshua/Jesus in Revelation

I give Paul's words more authority because:

• I'm not under, nor follow, the torah
• The Jerusalem council said gentile disciples in synagogues should follow the Noahide laws, which don't apply to me
• The book of Revelation is a very symbolic book

Also, Jesus said there is nothing that a person eats can defile him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Paul made it very clear that faith in Christ upholds the law of Moses-Romans 3:31

Paul said the faith upholds law, not faith upholds the law. The faith is law of the new covenant.

 

[Shamah]

I give Paul's words more authority because:

• I'm not under, nor follow, the torah
• The Jerusalem council said gentile disciples in synagogues should follow the Noahide laws, which don't apply to me
• The book of Revelation is a very symbolic book

Also, Jesus said there is nothing that a person eats can defile him.

More authority than what Yahshua Himself said?


and if you are referring to "thus Jesus declared all foods clean" that is not in the original text and Mark 7 is a parable:

Mark 7:
17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 7:19 ►[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Text Analysis[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3754 [e] hoti ὅτι because Conj[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3756 [e] ouk οὐκ not Adv[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1531 [e] eisporeuetai εἰσπορεύεται it enters V-PIM/P-3S[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]846 [e] autou αὐτοῦ of him PPro-GM3S[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3588 [e] tēn τὴν the Art-AFS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2588 [e] kardian καρδίαν heart, N-AFS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]235 [e] all’ ἀλλ’ but Conj[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3588 [e] tēn τὴν the Art-AFS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2836 [e] koilian κοιλίαν, belly, N-AFS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3588 [e] ton τὸν the Art-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]856 [e] aphedrōna ἀφεδρῶνα draught N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1607 [e] ekporeuetai ἐκπορεύεται, goes out. V-PIM/P-3S[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2511 [e] katharizōn καθαρίζων purifying V-PPA-NMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3956 [e] panta πάντα all Adj-ANP[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3588 [e] ta τὰ the Art-ANP[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1033 [e] brōmata βρώματα; food. N-ANP[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The first thing you will notice is the words, "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean," are completely absent. It is only included in some translations because someone added the words into the margin of an ancient text, not even into the actual sentence, but on the margin (side) of the page. Any who made copies of this text or translations and included it into the verses were committing forgery. Before moving on, I want to ask, why did someone feel the need to forge words into the text that were not originally there? In my opinion to add as commentary would have been factually wrong according to the meaning of the text, but acceptable because commentary is one opinion of what the text means, but to add it to the text itself is deception plain and simple.[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

I’m glad you presented a shorter post.

As you know, only Jesus dealt with the atonement of sins.

Which is why Jesus came after the law, since the law and its priests were not able to atone for sins, since they had nothing valuable enough to pay the actual cost of the sins of the whole world.

That doesn't respond to the question I asked. let me try again, according to the Laws the Word which became flesh gave to Moses, who was in charge of these two things.

#1. Administering God's Laws.

#2. Performing "works" for the atonement of sins.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The first thing you will notice is the words, "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean," are completely absent. It is only included in some translations because someone added the words into the margin of an ancient text, not even into the actual sentence, but on the margin (side) of the page. Any who made copies of this text or translations and included it into the verses were committing forgery. Before moving on, I want to ask, why did someone feel the need to forge words into the text that were not originally there? In my opinion to add as commentary would have been factually wrong according to the meaning of the text, but acceptable because commentary is one opinion of what the text means, but to add it to the text itself is deception plain and simple.

That may be a variant. I don't know. It's irrelevant, though, because Jesus said no food can defile a person.

 

[Grandpa]

What would be the point of or the ultimate goal of keeping the law?

To be right before God. To be pleasing to God. To be blessed and to find favor of God.


Well the law will do NONE of those things for you. You need to stop banging your head against the same wall and find a DIFFERENT way. A New Way.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Hebrews 7:18-19

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Galatians 3:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


Ok. So we have established that the law will NOT make you righteous, it will NOT make you perfect, it will NOT justify you before God. It is death and condemnation to you.

So now what?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If you understand even half of these scriptures you should see there is only one solution. And that is the Mercy and Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:10 [SUP] [/SUP]

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

When we come to Christ we become Gods workmanship. He causes us to follow His Spirit.

So we don't have to rely on our own strength and carnal understanding of what we think God wants from us to be Righteous and Perfect before Him.

Mostly because we couldn't do it if we wanted to anyway. But that is a whole different argument....
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[MattforJesus]

That may be a variant. I don't know. It's irrelevant, though, because Jesus said no food can defile a person.

I do not think Jesus meant it that way that we can eat any food that we want,but if we eat food with unwashen hands making the food dirty by our hands,it does not defile us,but only our thoughts,and what we say,and do,if it is wrong can defile us.

But God did say we can eat any food we want in the New Testament for it is spiritual,and not physical,so the food is cleansed if it is received with thanksgiving,for it is sanctified by the word of God,and prayer.

 

[Gman]

I'm sorry to answer a question with a question but why do you look to do the bare minimum? There is one God and He is the same yesterday and today and forever. God will not go against his own word, therefore everything in the law stands. The problem is not the law, the law is perfect, you are not, and you are not able to keep the law. Good news though, your salvation is a gift from God through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and that salvation does not depend on whether you can keep the law or have kept the law. God has made it simple and easy for everyone to be saved, just sincerely believe and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and you're in... Of course the rest the Lord will take care of!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That may be a variant. I don't know. It's irrelevant, though, because Jesus said no food can defile a person.

I just checked. There is no variant in Mark 7:19. Jesus declaring all foods clean is part of the original text.