Do you agree with the doctrine that says JESUS died spiritually?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Do you agree with the JESUS died spiritually doctrine?

  • I agree that JESUS died spiritually

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • I don't agree with the JESUS died spiritually

    Votes: 13 65.0%
  • I have a different view about it

    Votes: 3 15.0%

  • Total voters
    20
Dec 9, 2011
13,762
1,731
113
what I like to see come across is fruit, the personal love one has for Jesus Christ
in their postings/conversations/learning/sharing.

I am very moved with the manners and respect and concern that many have shown,
it signifies the desire for 'unity in the Faith'.

I thank you for this, it is very encouraging.

we cannot deny that this thread has created a foundation for bearing Spiritual Fruit,
it has stimulated Spiritual thinking and a desire to 'find-out' the TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH...."
Hello oldthennew

I like what you said there.:)
I'm still listening to the comments and I understand a little better.:confused:
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
Hi WS,

If we look at Gen. 2:7 we find that God created man out of the dust of the ground. Whatever man is, he is the dust of the ground. There is a breath/spirit in man but it is not the man. Gen 2:7 says that God breathed the breath/spirit of life into the man and the man became a living soul. It is this breath/spirit that comes from God that animates or gives life to man. However, that breath/spirit is God's not man's. Man is not a spirit, he is flesh and bone. Remember Jesus even said, a spirit does not have flesh and bone.
First, let's let Isaiah put in with Isaiah 26:9 (KJV) [SUP]9 [/SUP] With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

"Soul" there is from the Hebrew nephesh
"Spirit" there is from the Hebrew [FONT=&quot]ruah[/FONT]

They comprise the two "awareness" realms of man, and they live in the body.

One "knows" and the other "communicates" with God.

A bit off topic, but.....Yes, God took dust and formed a man. But he wasn't alive yet. My grandmother used to tease me
about seeing a ball of dust roll by, saying "Well, there's somebody coming or going." It helped me
learn to keep my room swept. It all started with dust, but dust now could be that of insects. God
used some to make a body of cells with a blood supply. The next step was to make those cells living cells.
He did that by breathing life, by way of his spirit wind into the body, making the man a living soul.
By further understanding, there is a part of us that remains alive a while when not breathing, heart
stopped. If revived, it breathes, and memories, personality, etc are still there.

Now for Genesis 1:26 (KJV) [SUP]26 [/SUP] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I hope you will think what the "image" and "likeness" of God is about. Moving on.....


Genesis 2:7 (KJV) [SUP]7 [/SUP] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Heb "Neshama hay" means breath to live creature. The breath itself wasn't a soul, but it awakened the created nepesh "soul".
That breath was not merely air, but life itself, the element confused scientists have tried to add to their soup mixtures to create life.

Further, Paul reveals the pattern in man of the image and likeness of God in his salutation 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That was not to say the air in your lungs, your mind, and your body. It was Greek pneuma (Spirit wind), psyche (rational soul) and soma (body).

I am a pneuma breathed in by God to Adam, that was made a living soul (mind, will, emotions, etc.), living in a body of flesh, a "natural man". In Adam my pneuma was rendered dead by sin until the last Adam, who was made a quickening spirit, entered me. That made me a spiritual man. 1 Cor 15:44.

John 4:24 (KJV) [SUP]24 [/SUP] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Man was made in that likeness and image of God. It isn't the mind that can worship Him. It isn't the body that can worship God. True worship must come from the "spirit-man" we are, our spirit made alive toward God through Christ in us. That breathed-in spirit is what puts man in a class apart from animals, made in His image and likeness.

Back on topic now. Jesus' spirit could never die like man's did because of sin. His is the spirit of life, not death.

May all reading let God breathe in and upon you, then really live.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
A metaphor. When Paul says the Ephesians are dead in sin, he is using a metaphor. It's just like when he said, when the Law came I died, he didn't actually die, he used death as a metaphor for being under the condemnation of the Law.


a metaphore? Where do you get that from?

Paul did die when the commandment came, he died spiritually.

Jesus said one must be born again, It is said we who were DEAD in trespasses and sin, have been MADE alive in Christ.



We don't really think that sin somehow attacked Paul and killed him, it's a metaphor. Paul uses death as a metaphor quite a bit'. He said without the Law was dead, sin isn't a living thing that can die, it's a metphor
I disagree, if it was just a metaphore. then we were alive and did not need to be born again. Why did Christ come then? for our relationship with God did not need fixed, since we were already alive.

Regarding being born again, it's actually a term for the Jews not the Gentiles. Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born again to see the kingdom of God. That Jesus said that to Nicodemus suggests that Nicodemus thought that through birth one would enter into the kingdom of God. Well, that's actually what the Jews believed. God had made promises to Abraham and his seed. He promised to give the land to Abraham and his seed. The Jews believed that these promises were for them because they were the seed of Abraham, they believed they were the heirs of the promises through their birth from Abraham. However, Jesus corrects Nicodemus' misunderstanding that he was an heir through his birth by telling him he must be born again. His physical birth through Abraham is not sufficient to gain him access to the kingdom. He says that which is born of the flesh is flesh. Nicodemus needs another birth, and Jesus uses being born a second time as a metaphor for having faith and receiving the Holy Spirit. If you have access to computer Bible software do a search for the phrase "Born again" you'll find that every time the phrase is used the writer is speaking to Jews.
lol. So jew needs to be born again, But we do not. Ok, I do not understand where you get this

Titus was not written to Jews, It was written to a gentile believer. Paul said he was saved by the washing of regeneration (new birth) of the holy Spirit.

Paul spoke to the corinthian church about being dead in adam, or alive in CHrist


Paul spoke to the ephesian church about being dead in sin, and made alive in Christ.

Not sure where yuo get that only jews are born again,
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Scripture never says He took on sin within His Spirit. But Scripture does say He took on our sins within His body, though (1 Peter 2:24).

Jesus (Who is the spotless Lamb and who is sinless) took on our sins in his body with the taking of the cup witin the Garden Gethsemane. He later was beaten and whipped. Isaiah says, he was wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities and by his stripes (whip marks) we are healed. Whips do not touch the spirit. And yet we are healed by his actual physical stripes (Whip marks). Christ was then crucified on the cross and the Father laid all Judgment of sin upon Him and He died for all of mankind's sins so as to offer man the free gift of salvation. Christ's shed blood can cleanse man of their sins (1 John 1:7). While Christ's physical body was dead in the tomb (Paying the penalty for sin): The Spirit of Christ (or the essence of Who Christ was) was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights; And then Christ conquered sin and death with His bodily resurrection. Jesus then ascended to the Father (After telling Mary not to touch Him), and entered the Holy Temple up in Heaven by his blood so as to be our mediator and or Heavenly High Priest between God the Father and man.


Side Note:

A parallel of Jesus taking on our sin in the Garden can be seen in the story of Joseph. Judah took on Benjamin's guilt of the cup within his bag and was willing to go to prison (i.e. take punishment) in Benjamin's place for a sin that Benjamin did not do (See Genesis 44).
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Scripture never says He took on sin within His Spirit. But Scripture does say He took on our sins within His body, though (1 Peter 2:24).

Jesus (Who is the spotless Lamb and who is sinless) took on our sins in his body with the taking of the cup witin the Garden Gethsemane. He later was beaten and whipped. Isaiah says, he was wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities and by his stripes (whip marks) we are healed. Whips do not touch the spirit. And yet we are healed by his actual physical stripes (Whip marks). Christ was then crucified on the cross and the Father laid all Judgment of sin upon Him and He died for all of mankind's sins so as to offer man the free gift of salvation. Christ's shed blood can cleanse man of their sins (1 John 1:7). While Christ's physical body was dead in the tomb (Paying the penalty for sin): The Spirit of Christ (or the essence of Who Christ was) was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights; And then Christ conquered sin and death with His bodily resurrection. Jesus then ascended to the Father (After telling Mary not to touch Him), and entered the Holy Temple up in Heaven by his blood so as to be our mediator and or Heavenly High Priest between God the Father and man.


Side Note:

A parallel of Jesus taking on our sin in the Garden can be seen in the story of Joseph. Judah took on Benjamin's guilt of the cup within his bag and was willing to go to prison (i.e. take punishment) in Benjamin's place for a sin that Benjamin did not do (See Genesis 44).
I believe Adam spread spiritual death and physical death upon all of mankind except Jesus Christ because sin is passed down by the male seed. That is why He had to have a virgin birth. Jesus was the perfect spotless Passover Lamb who took on our sins (Which would be sins both physical and spiritual) into his physical body in the Garden willingly. For in the Old Testament, we can see a similar occurence of the Israelite sins being transferred to the head of a goat where it was sent to wander in the wilderness (i.e. a desert like place) (See Leviticus 16:21). This is where we get the term "scape goat." The scape goat was a literal substitute physically for sin. The goat did not die spiritually. No animals were killed spiritually so as to atone for sin. Blood always atoned for sin. For the life of the flesh is in the blood. It is the blood that cleanses.
 
Last edited:
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
To say that Jesus died spiritually means that either Jesus had a human soul that was separate from His divine soul or that He took on sin within the Godhead, or He took on sin only within the second person of the Godhead.

But all the three scenarios just do not add up and or make any sense according to Scripture, though. We do not see any verses suggesting that Jesus took on a separate human soul/spirit in addition to His divine eternal soul/spirit so as to take on sin upon it. Neither do we see any mention of the Godhead becoming contaminated with sin either. For if God's Holy being was touched by sin it would destroy the goodness and holiness of our God. If the Son of God as Spirit took on our sin, then the Father also took on our sin, because Jesus says He is one with the Father. And Scripture says the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within Him bodily.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
So was God the Father separated from the Son of God on the cross?

Not a chance!

2 Corinthians 5:19
"To wit, that God [the Father] was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

Christ might have felt a separation from God the Father, when Judgment was being placed upon Him for the sins He carried in his body while on the cross, but Christ KNEW He was not separated because He quoted a Psalm of David (Psalm 22) that gave Him the comfort that He was not separated from God anymore than David was separated from God. For God did not turn his face away from David; God heard David (See Psalm 22:24).
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
First, let's let Isaiah put in with Isaiah 26:9 (KJV) [SUP]9 [/SUP] With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

"Soul" there is from the Hebrew nephesh
"Spirit" there is from the Hebrew ruah

They comprise the two "awareness" realms of man, and they live in the body.

One "knows" and the other "communicates" with God.

A bit off topic, but.....Yes, God took dust and formed a man. But he wasn't alive yet. My grandmother used to tease me
about seeing a ball of dust roll by, saying "Well, there's somebody coming or going." It helped me
learn to keep my room swept. It all started with dust, but dust now could be that of insects. God
used some to make a body of cells with a blood supply. The next step was to make those cells living cells.
He did that by breathing life, by way of his spirit wind into the body, making the man a living soul.
By further understanding, there is a part of us that remains alive a while when not breathing, heart
stopped. If revived, it breathes, and memories, personality, etc are still there.

Now for Genesis 1:26 (KJV) [SUP]26 [/SUP] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I hope you will think what the "image" and "likeness" of God is about. Moving on.....


Genesis 2:7 (KJV) [SUP]7 [/SUP] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Heb "Neshama hay" means breath to live creature. The breath itself wasn't a soul, but it awakened the created nepesh "soul".
That breath was not merely air, but life itself, the element confused scientists have tried to add to their soup mixtures to create life.

Further, Paul reveals the pattern in man of the image and likeness of God in his salutation 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That was not to say the air in your lungs, your mind, and your body. It was Greek pneuma (Spirit wind), psyche (rational soul) and soma (body).

I am a pneuma breathed in by God to Adam, that was made a living soul (mind, will, emotions, etc.), living in a body of flesh, a "natural man". In Adam my pneuma was rendered dead by sin until the last Adam, who was made a quickening spirit, entered me. That made me a spiritual man. 1 Cor 15:44.

John 4:24 (KJV) [SUP]24 [/SUP] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Man was made in that likeness and image of God. It isn't the mind that can worship Him. It isn't the body that can worship God. True worship must come from the "spirit-man" we are, our spirit made alive toward God through Christ in us. That breathed-in spirit is what puts man in a class apart from animals, made in His image and likeness.

Back on topic now. Jesus' spirit could never die like man's did because of sin. His is the spirit of life, not death.

May all reading let God breathe in and upon you, then really live.
I'm sorry WS, but that doesn't jive with Scripture. The breath that God breathed into man is His, it is not man. Gen 2:7 plainly states that man was created out of the dust, he is dust just as God said.

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen 3:19 KJV)

God's words, "dust thou art." From Gen 2:7 we can see that a living soul consists of two things, a man (body) and the breath/spirit of God.

There is nothing in Scripture that says man "is" a spirit, as I pointed out Jesus said, 'a spirit does not have flesh and bone.'

Regarding the quote from Isaiah where he says my spirit. The word "my" is a possessive, it shows possession. If I say, my truck, I am saying I am in possession of a truck, not I am a truck. If I say, my arm, I am in possession of an arm. I am not saying I am an arm. Likewise if I say, my spirit, I am saying I am in possession of a spirit, not that I am a spirit. We know from Gen. 2:7 that man is in possession of a spirit, however, it is God's spirit. We find recorded in Job that if God retrieved His spirit all flesh would die.

14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; {man: Heb. him}
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. (Job 34:14-15 KJV)

Notice what happens to the man, The passage doesn't say he lives on, it says he returns to dust just like God said in Gen 3.


You spoke of man being different from the animals. According to the Scriptures there are not.

18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. {that God...: or, that they might clear God, and see, etc}
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? (Ecc 3:18-21 KJV)

Solomon too says that the man returns to dust. There is a breath,spirit in man that returns to God when the man dies and the man returns to dust. A living soul consists of a man (body) and the breath spirit of God. When a man dies the breath spirit that is God's returns to Him and the man goes to dust, there is nothing left to live one
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
a metaphore? Where do you get that from?

Paul did die when the commandment came, he died spiritually.
Firstly, there is nothing in Scripture about spiritual death. If you do a search you'll find nothing. That idea is imposed on the Scriptures. If you're going to hold that position then you have to argue that Paul was spiritually alive and then spiritually died and then was spiritually alive again. This creates a problem for you since you believe OSAS. If Paul was spiritually alive and then spiritually dead, OSAS cannot be.

However, if we understand this as a metaphor there are no problems and no conflicts.



Jesus said one must be born again, It is said we who were DEAD in trespasses and sin, have been MADE alive in Christ.
That's right, they are metaphors.



I disagree, if it was just a metaphore. then we were alive and did not need to be born again. Why did Christ come then? for our relationship with God did not need fixed, since we were already alive.
Well, you can disagree if you choose to. However, as I pointed out, the way you understand this creates a contradiction with you OSAS doctrine so one or both of those doctrines must wrong since they oppose each other.



lol. So jew needs to be born again, But we do not. Ok, I do not understand where you get this
I don't think you got my point. Everyone will enter the kingdom the same way and it's not by being born a physical Jew as Nicodemus thought. As I said, Nicodemus thought he'd enter the kingdom via his birthright, Jesus used the metaphor "born again" to play off of Nicodemus' misunderstanding.




Titus was not written to Jews, It was written to a gentile believer. Paul said he was saved by the washing of regeneration (new birth) of the holy Spirit.

Paul spoke to the corinthian church about being dead in adam, or alive in CHrist


Paul spoke to the ephesian church about being dead in sin, and made alive in Christ.

Not sure where yuo get that only jews are born again,
Do a computer search for the phrase "Born Again" and you'll see.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
Do a computer search, there is no such thing as spiritual death, at least not pertaining to humans. One might claim that Satan and the demons being destroyed is spiritual death, but, that doesn't pertain to humans. The idea of spiritual death is being brought to, not taken from the Scriptures.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Do a computer search, there is no such thing as spiritual death, at least not pertaining to humans. One might claim that Satan and the demons being destroyed is spiritual death, but, that doesn't pertain to humans. The idea of spiritual death is being brought to, not taken from the Scriptures.
The Bible does not always use words that we use to explain things. But the Scriptures do talk about spiritual death. Many times, Jesus spoke in spiritual terms and not in physical terms. For does a man go back into his mother's womb to be born again a second time? Anyways, "spiritual death" is mentioned in Scripture as just "death" and is defined for us by the context. In the book of Luke, Jesus says,

Luke 9:59-60
"And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, 'Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God'."

Meaning, Jesus is saying for them to follow Him and let those who are spiritually dead bury their own dead.

Paul mentions to Timothy how the believing widow who lived in pleasure is dead (i.e. dead spiritually) while she lives.

1 Timothy 5:5-6
"Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth."

For unless the widow was a living dead zombie, it doesn't make any sense to say she is dead while she still lives. This is obviously in reference to her being dead spiritually.

For He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). This is talking about spiritual life. So it makes sense that if there is spiritual life, then there is spiritual death, too (i.e. the opposite of not having spiritual life).
 
Last edited:
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
The Bible does not always use words that we use to explain things. But the Scriptures do talk about spiritual death. Many times, Jesus spoke in spiritual terms and not in physical terms. For does a man go back into his mother's womb to be born again a second time? Anyways, "spiritual death" is mentioned in Scripture as just "death" and is defined for us by the context. In the book of Luke, Jesus says,

Luke 9:59-60
"And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, 'Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God'."

Meaning, Jesus is saying for them to follow Him and let those who are spiritually dead bury their own dead.

Paul mentions to Timothy how the believing widow who lived in pleasure is dead (i.e. dead spiritually) while she lives.

1 Timothy 5:5-6
"Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth."

For unless the widow was a living dead zombie, it doesn't make any sense to say she is dead while she still lives. This is obviously in reference to her being dead spiritually.

For He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). This is talking about spiritual life. So it makes sense that if there is spiritual life, then there is spiritual death, too (i.e. the opposite of not having spiritual life).

Jason,

None of that is talking about spiritual death, they're metaphors. The Bible has plenty of metaphors and figures of Speech. Paul uses figures of speech in his letters. To say this is speaking of spiritual death is to impose on the Scriptures, as I said, the Scriptures say nothing of Spiritual death. The fact that this phrase is found nowhere in Scripture shows that it must be imposed on the Scriptures.

There is nothing in Scripture that say man is a spirit to even be alive or dead. The Scriptures show us that the spirit in man is God's and God's spirit cannot die.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Jason,

None of that is talking about spiritual death, they're metaphors. The Bible has plenty of metaphors and figures of Speech. Paul uses figures of speech in his letters. To say this is speaking of spiritual death is to impose on the Scriptures, as I said, the Scriptures say nothing of Spiritual death. The fact that this phrase is found nowhere in Scripture shows that it must be imposed on the Scriptures.

There is nothing in Scripture that say man is a spirit to even be alive or dead. The Scriptures show us that the spirit in man is God's and God's spirit cannot die.
What does being born again even mean to you? Do you think Jesus was talking about physical birth?

Oh, and yes, every one has a spirit that returns to God. The phrase "spiritual death" does not mean your spirit body ceases to exist. "Spiritual death" means that one's spirit is not spiritually alive to God (Because of their sin - Which separates them from being favor with God). If a wicked person dies in their sins their soul/spirit still exists but they are dead spiritually to God. When a person who is wicked dies, they go to a place called Hell or Hades. It is a place of torment and not torture. More like a prison and not like how Hollywood and others like to portray it. Also, the soul/spirit is not created immortal. The Scriptures say, God alone possesses immortality. And this immortality is only in the Son. For Jesus says I come to give you life and to give it to you more abundantly. John says, he that has the Son has LIFE and he that does not have the Son DOES NOT HAVE LIFE. Jesus says, fear not him who can kill the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Hell (i.e. Gehenna, - The Lake of Fire). The wicked will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire and God (Christ) will have victory over evil once and for all by eliminating it. For evil was never intended to be a permant part of God's plan for mankind. He will destroy it. For God destroys His enemies.
 
Last edited:
O

oldernotwiser

Guest
whats wrong with imposing our ideas on scripture? without that, we wouldnt have either denominations or televangelists.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
What does being born again even mean to you? Do you think Jesus was talking about physical birth?

Oh, and yes, every one has a spirit that returns to God. The phrase "spiritual death" does not mean your spirit body ceases to exist. "Spiritual death" means that one's spirit is not spiritually alive to God (Because of their sin - Which separates them from being favor with God). If a wicked person dies in their sins their soul/spirit still exists but they are dead spiritually to God. When a person who is wicked dies, they go to a place called Hell or Hades. It is a place of torment and not torture. More like a prison and not like how Hollywood and others like to portray it. Also, the soul/spirit is not created immortal. The Scriptures say, God alone possesses immortality. And this immortality is only in the Son. For Jesus says I come to give you life and to give it to you more abundantly. John says, he that has the Son has LIFE and he that does not have the Son DOES NOT HAVE LIFE. Jesus says, fear not him who can kill the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Hell (i.e. Gehenna, - The Lake of Fire). The wicked will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire and God (Christ) will have victory over evil once and for all by eliminating it. For evil was never intended to be a permant part of God's plan for mankind. He will destroy it. For God destroys His enemies.
Besides, if you were to compare Romans 8:13 to Galatians 5:19-21 and 6:8,9, you would notice that it is referring to one particular truth that is written in 3 different ways. This one truth is talking about "spiritual death" and not "physical death."

Compare Romans 8:13 that says "not inherit the kingdom of God" with Galatians 5:19-21 that says, "and reap destruction instead of reap eternal life" in Galatians 6:8,9. Truly Paul was was referencing spiritual death here (Galatians 5:21).
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Furthermore, the Scripture say,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." (John 8:51)

In other words, Jesus was definitely not talking about physical death because many of the righteous saints have remained faithful to the point of death. So this is talking about "spiritual death."
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Jason,

None of that is talking about spiritual death, they're metaphors. The Bible has plenty of metaphors and figures of Speech. Paul uses figures of speech in his letters. To say this is speaking of spiritual death is to impose on the Scriptures, as I said, the Scriptures say nothing of Spiritual death. The fact that this phrase is found nowhere in Scripture shows that it must be imposed on the Scriptures.

There is nothing in Scripture that say man is a spirit to even be alive or dead. The Scriptures show us that the spirit in man is God's and God's spirit cannot die.
Also, you can't just say the word "death" is metaphorical within Luke 9:60 and 1 Timothy 5:6 without offering a clear cut understanding of what that metaphorical phrase actually is. Just saying it is a metaphor and then not providing an explanation implies you do not have a clear understanding of what the word is actually saying within this passage here. Do you know what it says metaphorically? For I understand perfectly what it says and it fits the context. If you disagree, then explain the metaphorical interpretation on the word "death" within passages using the context.
 
P

phil112

Guest
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell***, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption*.

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul** was not left in hell***, neither his flesh did see corruption.

***86 NT - Greek[aidhV] haides; grave


*Strong's: 1312;decay

**Strong's: 5590:breath, spirit, immortal* soul

*im·mor·tal (
-môr
tl)adj.1. Not subject to death: immortal
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
Without reading all the posts from last night., I was thinking on this the other day. Jesus is the God-man. He is not like us in that He had the same nature as us. Not even a nature like Adam before Adam sinned. Jesus was a totally different kind of human. He is the God-man.

100% man., 100% God. Not sure how to fathom that but will accept it by faith. :)

God doesn't die spiritually.
 
Last edited:

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Never heard any such nonsense. Jesus is spirit, and He is eternal. Someone is either pulling your leg or a complete fool.
Yeah, all except Christ Himself said this...

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

He said that He was dead, not a fleshly husk but He died and that He was made alive again, not His fleshly body.