Does anyone else perceive something radical Occurring with the Writings of Paul
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K
Lord Jesus did not learn it, for He already knew it because He is the Word.........
Notice how the Pharisees were astonished when Jesus walked in and read the word, because He was raised up in the home of the carpenter. God does not change but His covenants for us does, as even in the OT times there were different covenants made like the Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, and speaked on the New covenant...
5 Covenants of the Old Testament | ReasonableTheology.org
Old Testament Covenants
I'll go with the Biblical answers on this one as well,
[1 Samuel 2:26 NKJV] And the child Samuel grew in stature, and in favor both with the LORD and men.
[Luke 2:52 NKJV] And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
As it is written, gentlemen. A phrase Jesus said countless times. He didn't say that because he didn't read it, rather, because he did read it.
Saying he knew because he is God is a huge cop-out, and even if the Trinity were God's true nature, Jesus must have done all things as man as if he were not God, else surely Paul could not have said,
[Hebrews 2:17 NKJV] Therefore, in all things He had to be made like [His] brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
[1 Samuel 2:26 NKJV] And the child Samuel grew in stature, and in favor both with the LORD and men.
[Luke 2:52 NKJV] And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
As it is written, gentlemen. A phrase Jesus said countless times. He didn't say that because he didn't read it, rather, because he did read it.
Saying he knew because he is God is a huge cop-out, and even if the Trinity were God's true nature, Jesus must have done all things as man as if he were not God, else surely Paul could not have said,
[Hebrews 2:17 NKJV] Therefore, in all things He had to be made like [His] brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
K
It is not a cop-out to say that Jesus knew because He is the Word in the flesh.
It is biblical truth as in John it clearly says Jesus is the Word;
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Lord Jesus is the Word of Truth, why would He have to learn something He already knew.
That was not the purpose of His earthly ministry, as the purpose was to pay for the dept of our sins that caused us to be enmity to God and show us a better way to live.
The Jews focused to much on the ordinances of the laws and not on God, and therefore ignored the teachings of love and mercy that were in it. This is what Jesus came to teach us, on how to follow the greatest and more important aspect of love.
The written ordinances were the ministry of death because it showed us our sinful ways that convicted us. The only way to escape that conviction is through grace by faith in the Lord to receive His remission for our sins. This is done by established faith after hearing the word and trusting in Him to repent of our sins and get baptized in His name.
Just the one...I'm a real person, my name is Chris Hill, not trying to hide anything. Just trying to stick to the Bible. If it says he grew in wisdom and stature, then he did. Even uses the exact same wording as it used for Samuel. Samuel read the scriptures, he grew up in the temple. The only reason for anyone to argue against clear scripture on this matter is to defend constructed beliefs.
S
Bible Study – Fundamentals - Deity of Christ
Jesus Christ is both God and man.He has existed since forever with the Father as one of the three Persons of the Trinity.Jesus also assumed an additional nature in the Incarnation, when he was born to the Virgin Mary.After he died for our sins, he was resurrected the third day with a glorified body, and continues to be both God and man forever.
The Christian doctrine of the Incarnation portrays a God who is actively involved and concerned with his creation, including mankind.He was so concerned that he came as a man himself to die for our sins.He did not cease being God, but he emptied himself of his divine powers and assumed the limitations of humanity in order to demonstrate his great love for us.
As God, Jesus:
·Is worshiped (Mat 2:2,11; 14:33)
·Was called God (John 20:28; Heb 1:8)
·Was called the Son of God (Mark 1:1)
·Is prayed to (Acts 7:59)
·Is sinless ( I Pet 2:22; Heb 4:15)
·Knows all things (Jn 21:17)
·Gives eternal life (Jn 10:28)
·Is all the fullness of deity (Col 2:9)
As man, Jesus:
·Worshiped the Father (John 17)
·Was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5)
·Was called the Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
·Prayed to the Father (John 17)
·Was tempted (Matt 4:1)
·Grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
·Died (Rom 5:8)
·Had a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)
Since the focus of this document is to describe the deity of Christ, the humanity of Christ will not be covered beyond the basic points mentioned above.
All Scriptures are in the ESV (English Standard Version) if you are reading the English version of this document.It is recommended that you use this version if possible to review the document.The King James Version (KJV) was a great version at the time it was created, but is archaic in terms of language.In addition, some of their choices did not reflect an up-to-date understanding of Greek grammar.
Matt 1:23 Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name “Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
John 1:1-3In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
Colossians 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God
John 20:26-28 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them.Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”.Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”.Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”.
Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Philippians 2:5-6Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours inChrist Jesus, who though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Colossians 1:15-17He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by him all things were created, in heaven and in earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities – all things were created through him and for him.And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Colossians 2:8-9 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.For in him the whole fullness of the deity dwells bodily
I Timothy 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness:He was manifest in the flesh, indicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed amongst the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.
II Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
I John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his son Jesus Christ.He is the true God and eternal life.
Jesus Christ is both God and man.He has existed since forever with the Father as one of the three Persons of the Trinity.Jesus also assumed an additional nature in the Incarnation, when he was born to the Virgin Mary.After he died for our sins, he was resurrected the third day with a glorified body, and continues to be both God and man forever.
The Christian doctrine of the Incarnation portrays a God who is actively involved and concerned with his creation, including mankind.He was so concerned that he came as a man himself to die for our sins.He did not cease being God, but he emptied himself of his divine powers and assumed the limitations of humanity in order to demonstrate his great love for us.
As God, Jesus:
·Is worshiped (Mat 2:2,11; 14:33)
·Was called God (John 20:28; Heb 1:8)
·Was called the Son of God (Mark 1:1)
·Is prayed to (Acts 7:59)
·Is sinless ( I Pet 2:22; Heb 4:15)
·Knows all things (Jn 21:17)
·Gives eternal life (Jn 10:28)
·Is all the fullness of deity (Col 2:9)
As man, Jesus:
·Worshiped the Father (John 17)
·Was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5)
·Was called the Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
·Prayed to the Father (John 17)
·Was tempted (Matt 4:1)
·Grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
·Died (Rom 5:8)
·Had a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)
Since the focus of this document is to describe the deity of Christ, the humanity of Christ will not be covered beyond the basic points mentioned above.
All Scriptures are in the ESV (English Standard Version) if you are reading the English version of this document.It is recommended that you use this version if possible to review the document.The King James Version (KJV) was a great version at the time it was created, but is archaic in terms of language.In addition, some of their choices did not reflect an up-to-date understanding of Greek grammar.
Fundamental Scriptures regarding the deity of Christ
John 1:1-3In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
Colossians 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God
John 20:26-28 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them.Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”.Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”.Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”.
Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Philippians 2:5-6Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours inChrist Jesus, who though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Colossians 1:15-17He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by him all things were created, in heaven and in earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities – all things were created through him and for him.And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Colossians 2:8-9 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.For in him the whole fullness of the deity dwells bodily
I Timothy 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness:He was manifest in the flesh, indicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed amongst the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.
II Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
I John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his son Jesus Christ.He is the true God and eternal life.
We spoke not long about concerning contradictions - Paul's testimony is clear, avoid them. I'm more than happy to supply interpretations that avoid contradictions for you. However, as I am aware that questioning the golden calf is an automatic cause for persecution, I will only speak on this matter by using scripture from here on out.
[Hosea 11:9 NKJV] I will not execute the fierceness of My anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim. For I [am] God, and not man, The Holy One in your midst; And I will not come with terror.
[Zechariah 13:7 NKJV] "Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion," Says the LORD of hosts. "Strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.
In terms of your above interpretations, I am happy to provide answers that do not contradict the above by the use of only scripture. There are a lot there, though, so I'll start with one example and you can ask me if you'd like more.
How to define 'word' from John 1?
[Psalm 33:6 NKJV] By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
[Psalm 33:9 NKJV] For He spoke, and it was [done]; He commanded, and it stood fast.
How did the word, then, become flesh?
[Isaiah 49:5 NKJV] "And now the LORD says, Who formed Me from the womb [to be] His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, So that Israel is gathered to Him (For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, And My God shall be My strength),
[Hosea 11:9 NKJV] I will not execute the fierceness of My anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim. For I [am] God, and not man, The Holy One in your midst; And I will not come with terror.
[Zechariah 13:7 NKJV] "Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion," Says the LORD of hosts. "Strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.
In terms of your above interpretations, I am happy to provide answers that do not contradict the above by the use of only scripture. There are a lot there, though, so I'll start with one example and you can ask me if you'd like more.
How to define 'word' from John 1?
[Psalm 33:6 NKJV] By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
[Psalm 33:9 NKJV] For He spoke, and it was [done]; He commanded, and it stood fast.
How did the word, then, become flesh?
[Isaiah 49:5 NKJV] "And now the LORD says, Who formed Me from the womb [to be] His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, So that Israel is gathered to Him (For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, And My God shall be My strength),
The Gospel already IS radical! No one knew this more in practical terms than the apostle Paul, whose religious progress was interrupted, not to say demolished by Jesus on the road to Damascus - and things could never be the same again. Isn't that what we all want? a powerful, life-changing encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ? Surely that is what the promise is, that through laying down our own life the Lord will take it up?
Paul thought he knew how it all was, until that day he met the Lord. Paul was so convinced in his mind that he had it right, that he was willing to consent to the murder of Christians in that day. But intellectual understanding of scripture is not the same as revelation from God. Anyone can have an intellectual knowledge of the Word of God but it is revelation that turns the dead letter into the sharp sword of the Spirit. Such revelation is radical because it comes directly from God, according to the truth He has...as opposed to the partial understanding that our minds are able to grasp. When the Word literally spoke to Paul, he was slain as with that mighty sword of Truth.
John 12:24:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Radical, or what?
Paul thought he knew how it all was, until that day he met the Lord. Paul was so convinced in his mind that he had it right, that he was willing to consent to the murder of Christians in that day. But intellectual understanding of scripture is not the same as revelation from God. Anyone can have an intellectual knowledge of the Word of God but it is revelation that turns the dead letter into the sharp sword of the Spirit. Such revelation is radical because it comes directly from God, according to the truth He has...as opposed to the partial understanding that our minds are able to grasp. When the Word literally spoke to Paul, he was slain as with that mighty sword of Truth.
John 12:24:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Radical, or what?
I'm not denying Jesus' divine nature, just what Christianity thinks that phrase means...
[2 Peter 1:2 NKJV] Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
[2 Peter 1:3 NKJV] as His divine power has given to us all things that [pertain] to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,
[2 Peter 1:4 NKJV] by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption [that is] in the world through lust.
Does Jesus partake of God's divine nature? Yes. Are we supposed to as well? Yes. Does that mean the Mormons are right and we are all God? No.
God is God, and not man, the holy one in our midst.
[2 Peter 1:2 NKJV] Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
[2 Peter 1:3 NKJV] as His divine power has given to us all things that [pertain] to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,
[2 Peter 1:4 NKJV] by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption [that is] in the world through lust.
Does Jesus partake of God's divine nature? Yes. Are we supposed to as well? Yes. Does that mean the Mormons are right and we are all God? No.
God is God, and not man, the holy one in our midst.
If Jesus changed or abolished any part of God's law, there's about 49 contradictions in the NT alone. And if you add all the scriptures in the OT which plainly say that God's law never changes, and that it will practiced in the future, during the milleniel reign, there's over 200 contradictions that can be mentioned.
Sometimes, the hardest thing for an ordinary human being to do is admit when their wrong. Throwing out false knowledge that you're comfortable with and replacing it with true knowledge from the Bible requires you to be humble, which is contrary to human nature. But God's people love truth and hate decepetion, and they allow the scriptures to change their beliefs instead of letting their beliefs change scripture.
You will never hear this particular scripture mentioned in your church. The reason is because the devil doesn't want you to hear it. It has a tendency to wake people up to the fact that the majority is wrong.
Revelation 12:9- This great dragon--the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world--was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.
Mathew 7:13- Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Sometimes, the hardest thing for an ordinary human being to do is admit when their wrong. Throwing out false knowledge that you're comfortable with and replacing it with true knowledge from the Bible requires you to be humble, which is contrary to human nature. But God's people love truth and hate decepetion, and they allow the scriptures to change their beliefs instead of letting their beliefs change scripture.
You will never hear this particular scripture mentioned in your church. The reason is because the devil doesn't want you to hear it. It has a tendency to wake people up to the fact that the majority is wrong.
Revelation 12:9- This great dragon--the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world--was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.
Mathew 7:13- Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
E
so the narrow gate is following the law?
Seems that is what every religion in the world teaches, we are made right with God by following some law, which makes us holy in Gods sight.
so tell me, If following some law is what every major world religion teaches. then which would be something created by satan? Following some law or grace through faith.