There may be differing opinions and beliefs about when are raptured, but one thing I know for sure is that YOU MUST ready at ALL times. But how awful it would be to be living in sin (habitually drinking, drugs, pornography, sexual immorality) and then to see Jesus! You can never go back and stop these sins once you have been raptured or die even before that, so you must stop NOW so that you are prepared to meet Jesus confidently, or suffer great loss and guilt on Judgment Day.
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A
yes the coming of jesus in matthew 24 and the coming in 2 thessalonians 2 are the same thing...the post tribulation rapture that takes place at the second coming of jesus...
P
What do you know about Prewrath?
The wrath of God comes on the wicked people that have the mark of the beast NOT on God’s children
We are in the heavens when the 7 plagues come "AFTER" getting the victory over the beast and AFTER" getting the victory over his mark.
There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast. Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.
Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
As you can see we are in the heavens AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his make and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast
Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
A
Who else deals with the mark and the number of his name and the beast?
There is nobody else that can overcame.
Rv12;11 And they him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
There is nobody else that can overcame.
Rv12;11 And they him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Well it certainly can't be the "Church and Antinomians Saints" because they were all raptured at the end of the Antichrists Great Tribulation, which will martyr many of God's people for their testimony to Him. Those who are of the Church, still alive at that time, will endure through the beasts Great Tribulation. So I see where you're coming from, but since I don't know that I'm going to be one of those believers that endures through the wrath of Satan and his Antichrist.
P
Well it certainly can't be the "Church and Antinomians Saints" because they were all raptured at the end of the Antichrists Great Tribulation, which will martyr many of God's people for their testimony to Him. .
it sounds like you have two different tribulations going on
. Those who are of the Church, still alive at that time, will endure through the beasts Great Tribulation. So I see where you're coming from, but since I don't know that I'm going to be one of those believers that endures through the wrath of Satan and his Antichrist.
Did I understand you right?
That you have two different tribulations for two different churches ?
A
Not shore what you mean
it sounds like you have two different tribulations going on
the great tribulation is the only tribulation and there is only one body the church
Did I understand you right?
That you have two different tribulations for two different churches ?
it sounds like you have two different tribulations going on
the great tribulation is the only tribulation and there is only one body the church
Did I understand you right?
That you have two different tribulations for two different churches ?
Seems to me you don't understand a word I've been saying lol
A
Ok. The Prewrath position holds that there is one second coming and one rapture that happens right after the Great Tribulation.
When Christ comes to Rapture His Elect, He also comes with great power and glory and wrath to pour out upon the wicked, the seven Seals of Revelation are NOT God's wrath, they are Satan's wrath against the godly. One who asigns the seals as wrath of God is making a grave mistake because the 5th seal is directed exclusively towards those who held their witness and testimony to Christ. If these people are martyred as part of God's wrath, that makes God a liar when He said we are not appointed to wrath.
What I'm saying is that the seals correspond to the Olive Discourse. And if we incorporate Paul's letters to the Thesselonians, we find that there mus FIRST come a falling away, then the man of sin be revealed. If you study hard enough you will find that the first thin Christ and Paul warn us about is to not be deceived by any means. Christ goes into more detail by saying that many will come in His name saying they are Christ. Idk about you by that's evidence for me to believe that the first seal marks the beginning of the falling away from grace. As you read further in Matthew 24 you see it progressively getting worse as the grace of God is lifted away. Then behold, the man of sin is revealed, and then comes Great Tribulation. Seals 1-3 relate to the falling away, seals 4-5 relate to the man of sin and seal 6 relates to the sign of the Son of Man.
When you compare scripture with scripture, you can't go wrong. Lots of dedication and prayer is required to see the harmony of these passages if you don't see it already. I strongly encourage everyone to research a book coming out called Prewrath: Antichrist before the Day of The Lord. It is by Alan Kurshner and will be released soon. For all discerning believers, I highly recommend you get that book and discern for yourself the things being presented. It's a challenge of faith for everyone who strives to know more! If you don't strive to know more, you'll put no effort in understanding these things.
I don't mean to come off as aggressive, I just want to share the Truth that God brought to me. My vey own pastor can't even dialog with me about eschatology without getting defensive and upset,..
When Christ comes to Rapture His Elect, He also comes with great power and glory and wrath to pour out upon the wicked, the seven Seals of Revelation are NOT God's wrath, they are Satan's wrath against the godly. One who asigns the seals as wrath of God is making a grave mistake because the 5th seal is directed exclusively towards those who held their witness and testimony to Christ. If these people are martyred as part of God's wrath, that makes God a liar when He said we are not appointed to wrath.
What I'm saying is that the seals correspond to the Olive Discourse. And if we incorporate Paul's letters to the Thesselonians, we find that there mus FIRST come a falling away, then the man of sin be revealed. If you study hard enough you will find that the first thin Christ and Paul warn us about is to not be deceived by any means. Christ goes into more detail by saying that many will come in His name saying they are Christ. Idk about you by that's evidence for me to believe that the first seal marks the beginning of the falling away from grace. As you read further in Matthew 24 you see it progressively getting worse as the grace of God is lifted away. Then behold, the man of sin is revealed, and then comes Great Tribulation. Seals 1-3 relate to the falling away, seals 4-5 relate to the man of sin and seal 6 relates to the sign of the Son of Man.
When you compare scripture with scripture, you can't go wrong. Lots of dedication and prayer is required to see the harmony of these passages if you don't see it already. I strongly encourage everyone to research a book coming out called Prewrath: Antichrist before the Day of The Lord. It is by Alan Kurshner and will be released soon. For all discerning believers, I highly recommend you get that book and discern for yourself the things being presented. It's a challenge of faith for everyone who strives to know more! If you don't strive to know more, you'll put no effort in understanding these things.
I don't mean to come off as aggressive, I just want to share the Truth that God brought to me. My vey own pastor can't even dialog with me about eschatology without getting defensive and upset,..
P
Ok. The Prewrath position holds that there is one second coming and one rapture that happens right after the Great Tribulation.
When Christ comes to Rapture His Elect, He also comes with great power and glory and wrath to pour out upon the wicked, the seven Seals of Revelation are NOT God's wrath, they are Satan's wrath against the godly. One who asigns the seals as wrath of God is making a grave mistake because the 5th seal is directed exclusively towards those who held their witness and testimony to Christ. If these people are martyred as part of God's wrath, that makes God a liar when He said we are not appointed to wrath.
What I'm saying is that the seals correspond to the Olive Discourse. And if we incorporate Paul's letters to the Thesselonians, we find that there mus FIRST come a falling away, then the man of sin be revealed. If you study hard enough you will find that the first thin Christ and Paul warn us about is to not be deceived by any means. Christ goes into more detail by saying that many will come in His name saying they are Christ. Idk about you by that's evidence for me to believe that the first seal marks the beginning of the falling away from grace. As you read further in Matthew 24 you see it progressively getting worse as the grace of God is lifted away. Then behold, the man of sin is revealed, and then comes Great Tribulation. Seals 1-3 relate to the falling away, seals 4-5 relate to the man of sin and seal 6 relates to the sign of the Son of Man.
When you compare scripture with scripture, you can't go wrong. Lots of dedication and prayer is required to see the harmony of these passages if you don't see it already. I strongly encourage everyone to research a book coming out called Prewrath: Antichrist before the Day of The Lord. It is by Alan Kurshner and will be released soon. For all discerning believers, I highly recommend you get that book and discern for yourself the things being presented. It's a challenge of faith for everyone who strives to know more! If you don't strive to know more, you'll put no effort in understanding these things.
I don't mean to come off as aggressive, I just want to share the Truth that God brought to me. My vey own pastor can't even dialog with me about eschatology without getting defensive and upset,..
When Christ comes to Rapture His Elect, He also comes with great power and glory and wrath to pour out upon the wicked, the seven Seals of Revelation are NOT God's wrath, they are Satan's wrath against the godly. One who asigns the seals as wrath of God is making a grave mistake because the 5th seal is directed exclusively towards those who held their witness and testimony to Christ. If these people are martyred as part of God's wrath, that makes God a liar when He said we are not appointed to wrath.
What I'm saying is that the seals correspond to the Olive Discourse. And if we incorporate Paul's letters to the Thesselonians, we find that there mus FIRST come a falling away, then the man of sin be revealed. If you study hard enough you will find that the first thin Christ and Paul warn us about is to not be deceived by any means. Christ goes into more detail by saying that many will come in His name saying they are Christ. Idk about you by that's evidence for me to believe that the first seal marks the beginning of the falling away from grace. As you read further in Matthew 24 you see it progressively getting worse as the grace of God is lifted away. Then behold, the man of sin is revealed, and then comes Great Tribulation. Seals 1-3 relate to the falling away, seals 4-5 relate to the man of sin and seal 6 relates to the sign of the Son of Man.
When you compare scripture with scripture, you can't go wrong. Lots of dedication and prayer is required to see the harmony of these passages if you don't see it already. I strongly encourage everyone to research a book coming out called Prewrath: Antichrist before the Day of The Lord. It is by Alan Kurshner and will be released soon. For all discerning believers, I highly recommend you get that book and discern for yourself the things being presented. It's a challenge of faith for everyone who strives to know more! If you don't strive to know more, you'll put no effort in understanding these things.
I don't mean to come off as aggressive, I just want to share the Truth that God brought to me. My vey own pastor can't even dialog with me about eschatology without getting defensive and upset,..
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
As I see it, The fifth seal can’t be opened after the great tribulation because how can they kill us if we are not there
And the sixth seal sounds to me like Jesus’s coming then the wrath
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
But the bit I am still struggling with is the seventh seal, for in that seal are the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound, but Jesus doesn’t come back until the last trumpet.
1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
And as for you come off as aggressive. NOT AT ALL
A
I am still struggling with the seals
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
As I see it, The fifth seal can’t be opened after the great tribulation because how can they kill us if we are not there
And the sixth seal sounds to me like Jesus’s coming then the wrath
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
But the bit I am still struggling with is the seventh seal, for in that seal are the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound, but Jesus doesn’t come back until the last trumpet.
1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
And as for you come off as aggressive. NOT AT ALL
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
As I see it, The fifth seal can’t be opened after the great tribulation because how can they kill us if we are not there
And the sixth seal sounds to me like Jesus’s coming then the wrath
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
But the bit I am still struggling with is the seventh seal, for in that seal are the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound, but Jesus doesn’t come back until the last trumpet.
1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
And as for you come off as aggressive. NOT AT ALL
I am convinced this is the Great Tribulation, this is how Satan and his Antichrist will seek to kill all those opposing him, specifically Jews and Christians. Thus explaining the next seal.
R
Why do you believe this?