Does the KJV give homosexuality a pass?: Why is NIV stronger against it?

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1still_waters

Guest
#1
#1
The KJV refers to it with the word effeminate.
The NIV refers to it with the words nor men who have sex with men.

KJV onlyers tend to interpret KJV words through the holy grail of Noah Websters 1800s dictionaries.

The 1806 Noah's Webster dictionary translates effeminate as...
Effeminate, a. womanish, tender, voluptuous Effeminate, v.t. to make womanish, to soften
http://www.premierathome.com/library/Reference/Webster's 1806 Dictionary.txt
Click to expand...

The 1828 Noahs translates effeminate as
EFFEM'INATE, a. [L. effoeminatus, from effoeminor, to grow or make womanish, from foemina, a woman. See Woman.]

1. Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous.

The king, by his voluptuous life and mean marriage, became effeminate, and less sensible of honor.

2. Womanish; weak; resembling the practice or qualities of the sex; as an effeminate peace; an effeminate life.

3. Womanlike, tender, in a sense not reproachful.

Word [effeminate] :: Search the 1828 Noah Webster's Dictionary of the English Language (FREE) :: 1828.mshaffer.com
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Notice there is no definition about man with man sex. It's all about having female like qualities.


So the KJV Bible, and the holy grail used to interpret the KJV Bible, make no mention of male with male sex. It's as if the KJV authors purposed to sweep it under the rug. The NIV on the other hand is strongly against it.

Why would THE KING JAMES Bible try to sweep man with man sex under the rug with words that talk about a man being woman like?

Some historians believe King James may have been homosexual, or bisexual. Could that be the reason the NIV is stronger than the KJV on this issue? Could that be why the KJV sweeps this under the rug with words like effeminate?


KJV Translation.
1 Cor 6:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Click to expand...
NIV Translation

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Click to expand...
 
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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#2
Feb 12, 2009
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#2
Puts helmet and flack jacket on and runs for cover :)
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#3
#3
phil36 said:
Puts helmet and flack jacket on and runs for cover :)
Click to expand...
No need to run for cover.
Just trying to connect some dots.

If the KJV is pure, and all of its English words are purely translated, and the secret decoder ring for those purely translated words is the 1800s Websters dictionaries, then why is the NIV stronger against this sin, than the pure KJV?

Nopes, you can put ye helmet away!
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#4
#4
duh...................
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#5
Feb 12, 2009
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#5
lol thou hast put forth a goodly case from thine own quill
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#6
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
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#6
Do you have a dictionary from the 1600s because I noticed you used a definition from 200 years later?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#7
#7
directline2iam said:
Do you have a dictionary from the 1600s because I noticed you used a definition from 200 years later?
Click to expand...
In general KJV onlyers appeal to the 1800s Noah Websters dictionaries, so I'm discussing on their terms.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#8
#8
Old English of that time, used a lot of euphemisms, its just the way the spoke more of that time. Today, we are more rude and maybe crass today .. Even with the old English wording, I can still spot teachings clear.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


Romans 1:27-32

King James Version (KJV)

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


With any translation, the Bible is only helpful as the person useing it: meaning you can word things just "right" and if the person dose not have a will to study, then it wont matter.

But a true studied person in God's words, can study any translation, and learn God's words.

etc.


Side note, The king james is also keyed to the Strongs numbering system. So we can get the Hebrew meanings, and they are even more detailed then modern English translations . A smiths bible dictionary helps also.
 
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S

ServantStrike

Guest
#9
#9
Well, what about Romans 1?

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#10
Feb 12, 2009
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#10
What is a woman's natural use? NIV states it better for the language we actually speak and write every day now.
 
S

ServantStrike

Guest
#11
#11
phil36 said:
What is a woman's natural use? NIV states it better for the language we actually speak and write every day now.
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Isn't that a different discussion? The verse is still pretty clear, unless it's possible to have homosexual sex without homosexual lust.


The NIV translates Romans 1 quite similarly
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.


The thread was about whether or not the KJV has a gay loophole, I think it's safe to say it does not.

And the allegations of King James being a homosexual were only brought to light after his death, in addition to the fact that he wasn't on the translation team.
 
L

lookuptoseeJesus

Banned
#12
Jan 13, 2014
960
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#12
Just read several versions...
It is very good that people are starting to see this!

Excellent
The spirit of god is leading hear.

You know, without the spirit, no version will work.
But he tells you and writes in your heart the importance of what you read.
For each perseon it is different what they get out of it
for each person they have different sins and problems
God talks through the word of God no matter what translation... never fear

but
when you compare version
and you see disparity,
then that is a flag for a coverup and usually digging will show profound light that the enemy tried to hide

so get two or three version of a bible

parallel bibles are GREAT!
and read that way

you will see where the hot spots are right away

then dig and study

hallelujah
The enemy has lost the war
truth is coming out

let us pray for each other, we come from such diverse backgrounds

but remember

alwys be humble
ready to admit
:I know nothing"
and always pray

Father, with your spirit show me where I am in error

it won't be long now

the lid is about to blow off as Babylon is exposed!

Love...
 
JesusChica1991

JesusChica1991

Banned
#13
May 9, 2012
1,514
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#13
As an NIV-onlyist, the reason why it enforces the concept better is because it is surely the one and only Authorized version of the Bible and should be treated as such. Believers who use other versions are subjecting themselves to heretical doctrines and hogwash causing us to separate permanently from our Lord.

:rolleyes:

*Disclaimer for those who don't really know me: this post is not to be taken seriously.*
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#14
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
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#14
Hi Servant strike,

I understand, I was just using an example of how language and grammar have changed (within the topic).


I believe in the times of King James, if you were a male and called by those names it would be pretty obvious what it meant... however a modern English reader may not initially conclude that.. that was my real point!
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#15
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
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#15
1still_waters said:
The KJV refers to it with the word effeminate.
The NIV refers to it with the words nor men who have sex with men.

KJV onlyers tend to interpret KJV words through the holy grail of Noah Websters 1800s dictionaries.

The 1806 Noah's Webster dictionary translates effeminate as...



The 1828 Noahs translates effeminate as

Notice there is no definition about man with man sex. It's all about having female like qualities.


So the KJV Bible, and the holy grail used to interpret the KJV Bible, make no mention of male with male sex. It's as if the KJV authors purposed to sweep it under the rug. The NIV on the other hand is strongly against it.

Why would THE KING JAMES Bible try to sweep man with man sex under the rug with words that talk about a man being woman like?

Some historians believe King James may have been homosexual, or bisexual. Could that be the reason the NIV is stronger than the KJV on this issue? Could that be why the KJV sweeps this under the rug with words like effeminate?
Click to expand...


1still_waters, the King James Bible does condemn sodomy in 1 Cor. 6:9.


The words "abusers of themselves with mankind" [Strong's G733: ἀρσενοκοῖται / arsenokoitai] means a person who lies with a male as with a female.


Therefore again, the condemnation of Sodomy is definitely found in 1 Cor. 6:9 in the King James Authorize Holy Bible.


So we can see that not only does the King James Bible condemn Sodomy in 1 Cor. 6:9, but it also condemns males who are womanish, soft, unmanly, and delicate. Therefore the King James Bible is stronger in its condemnation of the wicked sin of Sodomy than the NIV and other modern versions are. You see, the modern Vatican versions leave out effeminate. Now why do you suppose that they do that?


 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#16
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
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#16
1still_waters said:
The KJV refers to it with the word effeminate.
The NIV refers to it with the words nor men who have sex with men.

KJV onlyers tend to interpret KJV words through the holy grail of Noah Websters 1800s dictionaries.

The 1806 Noah's Webster dictionary translates effeminate as...



The 1828 Noahs translates effeminate as

Notice there is no definition about man with man sex. It's all about having female like qualities.


So the KJV Bible, and the holy grail used to interpret the KJV Bible, make no mention of male with male sex. It's as if the KJV authors purposed to sweep it under the rug. The NIV on the other hand is strongly against it.

Why would THE KING JAMES Bible try to sweep man with man sex under the rug with words that talk about a man being woman like?

Some historians believe King James may have been homosexual, or bisexual. Could that be the reason the NIV is stronger than the KJV on this issue? Could that be why the KJV sweeps this under the rug with words like effeminate?


KJV Translation.


NIV Translation
Click to expand...


While a lot of the modern versions leave out effeminate, there are a few that still leave it in.


Also, King James was not a homosexual. About 25 years after King James' death, there were rumors and lies spread about King James in an attempt to destroy his character.


The truth of the matter is King James loved his wife.


He had 8 children with his wife, queen Anne. King James was also known for writing love poetry to his wife.


Furthermore, King James openly condemned Sodomy in many of his writings. And not only did King James condemn sodomy, he also condemned males who were effeminate:


"But especially eschew to be effeminate in your clothes, in perfuming, preening, or such like...and make not a fool of yourself in diguising or wearing long your hair or nails, which are but excrements of nature...Guard against corrupt leide and effeminate ones." - King James I of England


King James also condemned female transvestism and cross dressing.
 
J

just_monicat

Senior Member
#17
Jan 1, 2014
1,284
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#17
it seems this is one of the passages that has been subject to many of the arguments brought by organizations designed to nullify negative remarks regarding homosexual behavior. over the years, i have pulled these notes out for friends who have asked about its meaning or seeking clarity on the bible's view of what constitutes sexual immorality.

this is one of those words where learning greek isn't enough to understand, because the culture of the time plays a role in its interpretation as well.

the greek word malakos (pronoun malakoi/singular) is what the KJV translates as "effeminate".

the greek culture widely accepted male prostitutes (gay) and this word is specifically used to describe the passive role of male homosexuality. it's term, however, is most specifically a reference to the younger boys and men that were prostitutes. however, i want to point out that this term is not exclusive to prostitution.

depending upon your version, this word has been translated as effeminate, pervert, male prostitute, men who are prostitutes, men who have sex with men, men who are homosexuals, along with a couple more variations on these words.

i hope that helps.
 
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