Dominionism and the NAR
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A
Im not at all proud for admitting this but when I was a new christian I immediately became well known as being a prophet, in both my fellowship as well as with my family and friends. I could tell some people what they were thinking as well as warn them about their future. In the army i was the squads go to since the squad leader had seen the prophecies come to pass in his own life and felt i was Gods appointed seer. So Im saying there is no doubt that it was supernatural. I didnt conjure this or even desire it. It was an all day long thing, not just now and then. In fact I had these powers since i was in my midteens which i believe was due mostly to drugs.
One thing I didnt like about it was it involved private things about people and was most of the time negative. And as the prophecies came to pass it often angered people and caused divisions but also created a large following. Well as I studied more and more into things historical about the church and at the same time started to feel this power was more of a plague than a blessing I noticed others who had the same powers. I also saw Benny Hinn and others for about a month, years after these spirituals were common in my life. And it scared me becuase the TV stuff i felt was dishonoring to God.
I started to understand and worry that the years of LSD and truckloads of other substances had had an effect on me. I asked God to take away the powers which at the time I was worried that they were from Him and I was refusing a power He gave me. But it stopped. Now many years later I hear the same testimonies
in the church and shake my head. People think they can know where the power is from, im saying no...you cant. For me growing up I was very popular and usually center stage, which after I was saved i rather despised that, and loved the church life of the body where we are all members one of another. So there was no grip on me...just the long term effect of lieing seducing familiar spirits...But He delivered me
I am told from those in the emergent church that the reason I cant believe the things they teach are true is becuase ive never had the subjective experiences they have had with the Spirit. And how they test things by the fruit of it. All I can tell them is this....God is not the only power, Good outcome does not mean its from God. A deciever will not fail to produce good fruit. Satan is an angel of light. He transforms his ministers into ministers of light. But to tell the truth the emergent church is so far out their and have exposed so much filth it baffles me how someone cant see it.
I think the allure is just pride of the wanna be like Simon in Acts. What else? Jesus protects His sheep! So test the Spirits. If they point to you...your in the wrong court.
One thing I didnt like about it was it involved private things about people and was most of the time negative. And as the prophecies came to pass it often angered people and caused divisions but also created a large following. Well as I studied more and more into things historical about the church and at the same time started to feel this power was more of a plague than a blessing I noticed others who had the same powers. I also saw Benny Hinn and others for about a month, years after these spirituals were common in my life. And it scared me becuase the TV stuff i felt was dishonoring to God.
I started to understand and worry that the years of LSD and truckloads of other substances had had an effect on me. I asked God to take away the powers which at the time I was worried that they were from Him and I was refusing a power He gave me. But it stopped. Now many years later I hear the same testimonies
in the church and shake my head. People think they can know where the power is from, im saying no...you cant. For me growing up I was very popular and usually center stage, which after I was saved i rather despised that, and loved the church life of the body where we are all members one of another. So there was no grip on me...just the long term effect of lieing seducing familiar spirits...But He delivered me
I am told from those in the emergent church that the reason I cant believe the things they teach are true is becuase ive never had the subjective experiences they have had with the Spirit. And how they test things by the fruit of it. All I can tell them is this....God is not the only power, Good outcome does not mean its from God. A deciever will not fail to produce good fruit. Satan is an angel of light. He transforms his ministers into ministers of light. But to tell the truth the emergent church is so far out their and have exposed so much filth it baffles me how someone cant see it.
I think the allure is just pride of the wanna be like Simon in Acts. What else? Jesus protects His sheep! So test the Spirits. If they point to you...your in the wrong court.
E
hi bud! ok....sounds good.
but, for example, these systems require that Daniel 9 be unfulfilled. that means Unfinished Work, unfulfilled prophecies.
Daniel's prophecy was concerning SOMETHING THAT HAD LONG BEEN PROMISED TO the israelites and jerusalem ( to the EXACT day Jesus would officially be anointed at the Jordan. - this is the BIG PROMISE! THE SEED!
that ancient prophesy to Daniel describes exactly what was accomplished, and what is reckoned to all who believe - the jew first, THEN the gentile.
so His Work is Finished, ONCE for ALL (jew & gentile), or none of it is Finished, since this passage is either about Jesus or it is not:
Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
to finish the transgression
to make an end of sins
to make reconciliation for iniquity
to bring in everlasting righteousness
to seal up the vision and prophecy
to anoint the most Holy
by inserting ANY gap into this passage or substituting Jesus or Titus with someone else effectually denies His Finished Work.
a few varieties of dispensationalism severe the 70th week (where Christ was anointed, crucified, and rose from the dead at MID WEEK) and places at the end of the Messianic era rather than the beginning! THIS "KEEPS HIM OFF HIS THRONE" (not possible), and KEEPS HIM FROM BEING THE MESSIAH (not possible) i.e:
to anoint the most Holy:
John 1
Behold, the Lamb of God
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 And John bore witness: “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. 33 I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”
to bring in everlasting righteousness :
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
etc.
also, a careful reading of the sequence of events concerning the going forth of the Gospel FROM JERUSALEM; a reminder of the fact that the ekklesia was almost exclusively jewish (though with some gentiles); then the gentiles brought in absolutely does not allow Romans 11 to suggest
1) jewish universalism
2) a GAP, or Postponment of The Kingdom because some jews rejected Him.
the whole purpose of these GAPS inserted is to keep the world from knowing and believing that
1) Jesus fulfilled all righteouness
2) Jesus is King now
3) His kingdom is not of this world.
by blurring these realities, we have what we see today: Dominionism.
christian zionism is one form (christians unknowingly building the kingdom for the Pharisees on theological grounds)
christian dominionism is another form (christians unknowingly doing exactly the same thing on geo-political grounds).
~
according to Rev 20, the first resurrection is the death and seating in Heaven of each individual Christian between both Advents.
the second resurrection is at the Second Advent for Judgment, just after satan's short space.
nope.
He's "on" David's throne now - he is the last KING, the king of kings.
David doesn't have a literal throne that Jesus is sitting on - He is the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant.
luv ya bud
ok....sounds good.but, for example, these systems require that Daniel 9 be unfulfilled. that means Unfinished Work, unfulfilled prophecies.
Daniel's prophecy was concerning SOMETHING THAT HAD LONG BEEN PROMISED TO the israelites and jerusalem ( to the EXACT day Jesus would officially be anointed at the Jordan. - this is the BIG PROMISE! THE SEED!
that ancient prophesy to Daniel describes exactly what was accomplished, and what is reckoned to all who believe - the jew first, THEN the gentile.
so His Work is Finished, ONCE for ALL (jew & gentile), or none of it is Finished, since this passage is either about Jesus or it is not:
Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
to finish the transgression
to make an end of sins
to make reconciliation for iniquity
to bring in everlasting righteousness
to seal up the vision and prophecy
to anoint the most Holy
by inserting ANY gap into this passage or substituting Jesus or Titus with someone else effectually denies His Finished Work.
a few varieties of dispensationalism severe the 70th week (where Christ was anointed, crucified, and rose from the dead at MID WEEK) and places at the end of the Messianic era rather than the beginning! THIS "KEEPS HIM OFF HIS THRONE" (not possible), and KEEPS HIM FROM BEING THE MESSIAH (not possible) i.e:
to anoint the most Holy:
John 1
Behold, the Lamb of God
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 And John bore witness: “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. 33 I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”
to bring in everlasting righteousness :
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
etc.
also, a careful reading of the sequence of events concerning the going forth of the Gospel FROM JERUSALEM; a reminder of the fact that the ekklesia was almost exclusively jewish (though with some gentiles); then the gentiles brought in absolutely does not allow Romans 11 to suggest
1) jewish universalism
2) a GAP, or Postponment of The Kingdom because some jews rejected Him.
the whole purpose of these GAPS inserted is to keep the world from knowing and believing that
1) Jesus fulfilled all righteouness
2) Jesus is King now
3) His kingdom is not of this world.
by blurring these realities, we have what we see today: Dominionism.
christian zionism is one form (christians unknowingly building the kingdom for the Pharisees on theological grounds)
christian dominionism is another form (christians unknowingly doing exactly the same thing on geo-political grounds).
~
according to Rev 20, the first resurrection is the death and seating in Heaven of each individual Christian between both Advents.
the second resurrection is at the Second Advent for Judgment, just after satan's short space.
nope.
He's "on" David's throne now - he is the last KING, the king of kings.
David doesn't have a literal throne that Jesus is sitting on - He is the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant.
luv ya bud
1. Israel is still in rejection.
2. There has been no covenant between the prince who is to come and the nation of Israel.
3. The abomination of desolation has not occured yet.
4. The times of the gentiles has not yet been completed.
The only thing which has been completed is the messiah was cut off. The rest is still in Limbo.
Jesus is not on David's throne. He is on his own throne. David's throne would be in Jerusalem.
I still love ya too sis
A
yes the spirit of prophecy should point towards Jesus and not anything else.
you can use scripture to compare the two:
2 Peter 1:18-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[a] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[c] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
versus the spirit of divination and soothsaying which also predicts the future but does not point to God and Jesus:
Acts 16
16 Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling. 17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” 18 And this she did for many days.
But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour. 19 But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities
Notice how the deceiving spirit talks about "the way of salvation" but never continues to tell people about faith and confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and savior? Reminds me of a lot of "prophets" we see popping up today.
I'm glad God delivered you from the deceiving spirits.
you can use scripture to compare the two:
2 Peter 1:18-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[a] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[c] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
versus the spirit of divination and soothsaying which also predicts the future but does not point to God and Jesus:
Acts 16
16 Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling. 17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” 18 And this she did for many days.
But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour. 19 But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities
Notice how the deceiving spirit talks about "the way of salvation" but never continues to tell people about faith and confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and savior? Reminds me of a lot of "prophets" we see popping up today.
I'm glad God delivered you from the deceiving spirits.
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wow EG.
can you really go over the passages from Isaiah and John and stuff and not see the fulfillment of the list of 6 things in Daniel 9?
unbelieving israel is under condemnation just everybody else EG.
they gotta keep coming to Christ and merge into the New Covenant like everybody else.
mercy was opened to them at the same time its was the gentiles (paul makes it clear in Romans, bud)...a little sooner in fact, since Jesus ministered there, and the disciples went out from there.
no second chances, no mystery millennium with flesh jews and floating gentiles and stuff: not written. ain't in there.
sorry EG my bro...nonea that stuff is in there.
member Beware the Leaven of the Pharisees? well they concocted a RESET on events and set out convincing the christians that there were GAPS everywhere and special dispensations for jews and stuff.
fables, EG: jewish fables.
can you really go over the passages from Isaiah and John and stuff and not see the fulfillment of the list of 6 things in Daniel 9?
unbelieving israel is under condemnation just everybody else EG.
they gotta keep coming to Christ and merge into the New Covenant like everybody else.
mercy was opened to them at the same time its was the gentiles (paul makes it clear in Romans, bud)...a little sooner in fact, since Jesus ministered there, and the disciples went out from there.
no second chances, no mystery millennium with flesh jews and floating gentiles and stuff: not written. ain't in there.
sorry EG my bro...nonea that stuff is in there.
member Beware the Leaven of the Pharisees? well they concocted a RESET on events and set out convincing the christians that there were GAPS everywhere and special dispensations for jews and stuff.
fables, EG: jewish fables.
A
P.S. that was just saying to some to not be so presumptious to others thinking you
are the only ones with subjective experience in a spirit world. And I notice that your only rule to judge
things is by the very spirit you have since you think its the Holyspirit. And the written word is
of less authority. Your sawing off the limb your sitting on.
are the only ones with subjective experience in a spirit world. And I notice that your only rule to judge
things is by the very spirit you have since you think its the Holyspirit. And the written word is
of less authority. Your sawing off the limb your sitting on.
E
lol ZOne.
Daniel 9 concerned the nation of Israel only. Not the church. Not the gentiles. Daniel was praying for his own people because he knew the origional time God gave was ending and his nation had not yet repented. So we can not interpret Dan 9 to have anything to do with the church.
Isreal rejected her messiah. Thus messiah was "Cut off" or killed. Just as promised. This happened exactly 69 years to the day from the command to rebuild Jerusalem. Which means the final 7 years earth happened within 7 years after Christ died (which it did not) or it has not happened yet.
Yes your right. Any Israelite just like any Jew has to receive Christ to be saved, this is true even today. But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Nor is it even what Daniel was praying for.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that Israel is in unbelief today. You are right about this too. But this unbelief is temporary. When the times of the gentiles is complete. and all things are fulfilled concerning them. God will turn away Israels hardened heart. They will repent. and God will return them to be his witnesses on Earth. Just as Daniel had prayed for. and what he was looking for.
God promised David that his son would sit on his throne in Jerusalem. Not in heaven. If Christ does not do this. He has not fulfilled his covenant with David. And is a liar and a thief.
So no. I can't see it your way
Daniel 9 concerned the nation of Israel only. Not the church. Not the gentiles. Daniel was praying for his own people because he knew the origional time God gave was ending and his nation had not yet repented. So we can not interpret Dan 9 to have anything to do with the church.
Isreal rejected her messiah. Thus messiah was "Cut off" or killed. Just as promised. This happened exactly 69 years to the day from the command to rebuild Jerusalem. Which means the final 7 years earth happened within 7 years after Christ died (which it did not) or it has not happened yet.
Yes your right. Any Israelite just like any Jew has to receive Christ to be saved, this is true even today. But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Nor is it even what Daniel was praying for.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that Israel is in unbelief today. You are right about this too. But this unbelief is temporary. When the times of the gentiles is complete. and all things are fulfilled concerning them. God will turn away Israels hardened heart. They will repent. and God will return them to be his witnesses on Earth. Just as Daniel had prayed for. and what he was looking for.
God promised David that his son would sit on his throne in Jerusalem. Not in heaven. If Christ does not do this. He has not fulfilled his covenant with David. And is a liar and a thief.
So no. I can't see it your way
The Third Wavers, NAR and gnosticism:
Gnostics
The Greek word, gnosis means knowledge. In the first century, Gnostics insisted they were genuine, Bible believing Christians. They did not reject the apostles nor their apostolic teaching. They did not reject the Bible. They simply claimed they had an additional source of knowledge or insight that was beyond the knowledge of Scripture. This extra knowledge did not come from the study of God’s Word. It was mystical and came by direct communication from God. These private ‘revelations’ were considered divine authority. Gnostics were thus considered heretics by the early church because of their view of revelation.
The Greek word, gnosis means knowledge. In the first century, Gnostics insisted they were genuine, Bible believing Christians. They did not reject the apostles nor their apostolic teaching. They did not reject the Bible. They simply claimed they had an additional source of knowledge or insight that was beyond the knowledge of Scripture. This extra knowledge did not come from the study of God’s Word. It was mystical and came by direct communication from God. These private ‘revelations’ were considered divine authority. Gnostics were thus considered heretics by the early church because of their view of revelation.
Today, God does not give ‘new revelation’ to men. God is not doing ‘a new thing’. All knowledge and experiences, all ‘things’ can be found in the written Scriptures. Any knowledge, experience or ‘thing’ that cannot be found in Scripture is not of God and is not for God’s people. Any revelation that goes beyond or contradicts or adds or takes away from what is revealed in the written Word of God is a counterfeit.
Experiences such as being ‘slain in the spirit’ or ‘holy laughter’ or being ‘drunk in the spirit’ are not found in Scripture. This is well known to those who teach these things. As a result, those who teach them do not try to defend their teachings with Scripture. Instead, they look for a ‘new thing’, an experience or revelation that is outside God’s Word. Because these experiences lie outside Scripture, they also lie outside the area where God’s Spirit moves. These experiences thus come from areas where other spirits move, in the occult.
Third Wave Teachers:
C. Peter Wagner
Quotes from C. Peter WagnerNew Apostolic ReformationTHE GOSPEL AND SPIRITUAL WARFARE: A REVIEW OF PETER WAGNER’S CONFRONTING THE POWERSWelcome the new prophets to head of the churchApologetics Research
Rick Joyner
Rich Joyner is a Gnostic. The Apologetics Research Resources on Religious Cults, Sects, Religions, Doctrines etc. has written some articles on Third Wave teachers and teachings. This research organization believes Rick Joyner and Morningstar Ministries to be one the most unsound and dangerous teachers around. His error-filled, unorthodox teachings include (but are not limited to) Kingdom Now (or Dominion) theology, extra-biblical revelation, and the denial of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Rick Joyner is a Third Wave teacher and has written many books including The Final Quest which is about Joyner's vision on what he sees is a civil war now underway in Christendom between those who support the new thing God is doing today (called the "move of God") and those who oppose it. Those who oppose the "move" as seen by Joyner, comprise the hordes of hell. The "move of God" Joyner supports is the Toronto Blessing and similar renewal and revival movements. Oppose this 'new thing God is doing' and you're in trouble. He has declared war on those who oppose the New Thing God is doing. See Rick Joyner, Christian Gnostic: Civil War for details.
Other Third Wave teachers
Other Third Wave teachers include Jack Deere, Ted Haggard, Bill Hamon, Cindy Jacobs, George Ortis Jr. and,Dutch Sheets. Click here for more information.
http://www.believershome.com/html/pentecostal__charismatic__thir.html
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A
Oh, It was to those who when they are told they are out of the bounds God made for us that we havnt
the spirit and have not experienced his power.
I say true we havnt that spirit and will not recieve that spirit.
Little do they know are want to know what these bounds are. And want to teach others to go out of the bounds God gave us for our safety. Into enlightenment, into power, into .....well certiasnly not feet washing.
Not sure if you have posted yet that their guru teaches that we can learn alot from shamans and others in the occult who have learned the truth about this spirit world and how we can be safe with that knowledge.
Run....Forrest!....run!
S
lol ZOne.
Daniel 9 concerned the nation of Israel only. Not the church. Not the gentiles. Daniel was praying for his own people because he knew the origional time God gave was ending and his nation had not yet repented. So we can not interpret Dan 9 to have anything to do with the church.
Isreal rejected her messiah. Thus messiah was "Cut off" or killed. Just as promised. This happened exactly 69 years to the day from the command to rebuild Jerusalem. Which means the final 7 years earth happened within 7 years after Christ died (which it did not) or it has not happened yet.
Yes your right. Any Israelite just like any Jew has to receive Christ to be saved, this is true even today. But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Nor is it even what Daniel was praying for.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that Israel is in unbelief today. You are right about this too. But this unbelief is temporary. When the times of the gentiles is complete. and all things are fulfilled concerning them. God will turn away Israels hardened heart. They will repent. and God will return them to be his witnesses on Earth. Just as Daniel had prayed for. and what he was looking for.
God promised David that his son would sit on his throne in Jerusalem. Not in heaven. If Christ does not do this. He has not fulfilled his covenant with David. And is a liar and a thief.
So no. I can't see it your way[
Dear eternallygratefull,
See for another point of view See Philio Mauro The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation. Classic book. Daniel 9 fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, the 70 weeks of Daniel already completely fulfilled in history. The preterist view, and the partial preterist view. In Erie Scott Harrington
Daniel 9 concerned the nation of Israel only. Not the church. Not the gentiles. Daniel was praying for his own people because he knew the origional time God gave was ending and his nation had not yet repented. So we can not interpret Dan 9 to have anything to do with the church.
Isreal rejected her messiah. Thus messiah was "Cut off" or killed. Just as promised. This happened exactly 69 years to the day from the command to rebuild Jerusalem. Which means the final 7 years earth happened within 7 years after Christ died (which it did not) or it has not happened yet.
Yes your right. Any Israelite just like any Jew has to receive Christ to be saved, this is true even today. But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Nor is it even what Daniel was praying for.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that Israel is in unbelief today. You are right about this too. But this unbelief is temporary. When the times of the gentiles is complete. and all things are fulfilled concerning them. God will turn away Israels hardened heart. They will repent. and God will return them to be his witnesses on Earth. Just as Daniel had prayed for. and what he was looking for.
God promised David that his son would sit on his throne in Jerusalem. Not in heaven. If Christ does not do this. He has not fulfilled his covenant with David. And is a liar and a thief.
So no. I can't see it your way
[Dear eternallygratefull,
See for another point of view See Philio Mauro The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation. Classic book. Daniel 9 fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, the 70 weeks of Daniel already completely fulfilled in history. The preterist view, and the partial preterist view. In Erie Scott Harrington
Last edited by a moderator:
lol ZOne.
Daniel 9 concerned the nation of Israel only. Not the church. Not the gentiles. Daniel was praying for his own people because he knew the origional time God gave was ending and his nation had not yet repented. So we can not interpret Dan 9 to have anything to do with the church.
Isreal rejected her messiah. Thus messiah was "Cut off" or killed. Just as promised. This happened exactly 69 years to the day from the command to rebuild Jerusalem. Which means the final 7 years earth happened within 7 years after Christ died (which it did not) or it has not happened yet.
Yes your right. Any Israelite just like any Jew has to receive Christ to be saved, this is true even today. But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Nor is it even what Daniel was praying for.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that Israel is in unbelief today. You are right about this too. But this unbelief is temporary. When the times of the gentiles is complete. and all things are fulfilled concerning them. God will turn away Israels hardened heart. They will repent. and God will return them to be his witnesses on Earth. Just as Daniel had prayed for. and what he was looking for.
God promised David that his son would sit on his throne in Jerusalem. Not in heaven. If Christ does not do this. He has not fulfilled his covenant with David. And is a liar and a thief.
So no. I can't see it your way
Daniel 9 concerned the nation of Israel only. Not the church. Not the gentiles. Daniel was praying for his own people because he knew the origional time God gave was ending and his nation had not yet repented. So we can not interpret Dan 9 to have anything to do with the church.
Isreal rejected her messiah. Thus messiah was "Cut off" or killed. Just as promised. This happened exactly 69 years to the day from the command to rebuild Jerusalem. Which means the final 7 years earth happened within 7 years after Christ died (which it did not) or it has not happened yet.
Yes your right. Any Israelite just like any Jew has to receive Christ to be saved, this is true even today. But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Nor is it even what Daniel was praying for.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that Israel is in unbelief today. You are right about this too. But this unbelief is temporary. When the times of the gentiles is complete. and all things are fulfilled concerning them. God will turn away Israels hardened heart. They will repent. and God will return them to be his witnesses on Earth. Just as Daniel had prayed for. and what he was looking for.
God promised David that his son would sit on his throne in Jerusalem. Not in heaven. If Christ does not do this. He has not fulfilled his covenant with David. And is a liar and a thief.
So no. I can't see it your way
believing Israel became the Church.
Daniel 9 was for them: those who believed became the Church.
and the gentiles were grafted in. both peoples have been pressing in to the New Covenant since Pentecost, and that's that budster.
israel and the church are not separate.
there are no GAPS.
unbelieving jews are lost, same with unbelieving gentiles.
Daniel 9 is fulfilled, as are most prophecies: all that stuff dipensationalists are told refer to a future millennium are either already fulfilled or look to the eternal state, and New Jerusalem.
the Pharisees cooked up a counterfeit eschaton and american evangelicals have been following the script for quite some time (blood & money provided on false theological grounds).
but time to wake up now.
all we got left is satan's short space which involves the great apostasy, and the Second Advent.
still luv ya
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E
lol ZOne.
Daniel 9 concerned the nation of Israel only. Not the church. Not the gentiles. Daniel was praying for his own people because he knew the origional time God gave was ending and his nation had not yet repented. So we can not interpret Dan 9 to have anything to do with the church.
Isreal rejected her messiah. Thus messiah was "Cut off" or killed. Just as promised. This happened exactly 69 years to the day from the command to rebuild Jerusalem. Which means the final 7 years earth happened within 7 years after Christ died (which it did not) or it has not happened yet.
Yes your right. Any Israelite just like any Jew has to receive Christ to be saved, this is true even today. But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Nor is it even what Daniel was praying for.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that Israel is in unbelief today. You are right about this too. But this unbelief is temporary. When the times of the gentiles is complete. and all things are fulfilled concerning them. God will turn away Israels hardened heart. They will repent. and God will return them to be his witnesses on Earth. Just as Daniel had prayed for. and what he was looking for.
God promised David that his son would sit on his throne in Jerusalem. Not in heaven. If Christ does not do this. He has not fulfilled his covenant with David. And is a liar and a thief.
So no. I can't see it your way[
Dear eternallygratefull,
See for another point of view See Philio Mauro The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation. Classic book. Daniel 9 fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, the 70 weeks of Daniel already completely fulfilled in history. The preterist view, and the partial preterist view. In Erie Scott Harrington
Daniel 9 concerned the nation of Israel only. Not the church. Not the gentiles. Daniel was praying for his own people because he knew the origional time God gave was ending and his nation had not yet repented. So we can not interpret Dan 9 to have anything to do with the church.
Isreal rejected her messiah. Thus messiah was "Cut off" or killed. Just as promised. This happened exactly 69 years to the day from the command to rebuild Jerusalem. Which means the final 7 years earth happened within 7 years after Christ died (which it did not) or it has not happened yet.
Yes your right. Any Israelite just like any Jew has to receive Christ to be saved, this is true even today. But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Nor is it even what Daniel was praying for.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 11 that Israel is in unbelief today. You are right about this too. But this unbelief is temporary. When the times of the gentiles is complete. and all things are fulfilled concerning them. God will turn away Israels hardened heart. They will repent. and God will return them to be his witnesses on Earth. Just as Daniel had prayed for. and what he was looking for.
God promised David that his son would sit on his throne in Jerusalem. Not in heaven. If Christ does not do this. He has not fulfilled his covenant with David. And is a liar and a thief.
So no. I can't see it your way
[Dear eternallygratefull,
See for another point of view See Philio Mauro The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation. Classic book. Daniel 9 fulfilled in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, the 70 weeks of Daniel already completely fulfilled in history. The preterist view, and the partial preterist view. In Erie Scott Harrington
Hey Scott. Thanks, But I have studied this in great Detail. all sides, including the ammilenialist view.
AD 70 bcould not be the fulfillment.
The abomination was not completed.
The many wars was not completed
the covenant was not made with israel.
if it was the fulfillment, There was a literal 69 years. Then a gap. then the final 7 happened between 62 AD and 70 Ad (29 years after messiah was cut off. making a 29 year ga0.
if there was a 29 year gap between the 69th and 70th week. Why can;t there be a 2000 year gap?
E
Thjis is pure conjecture. Daniel was not praying for just a few people to come to Christ. We already know from scripture many jews, including daniel himself) was already following God at the time of his prayer. In fact it would easy to think as many israelies in Daniels time followed God than there were when the church started.
Daniel was not praying for a few to be saved. He was praying for his people to repent and be restored. And God be mercifull to them.
Can't be it. Or romans 11 is null and void and a lie. As paul said they are grafted in. But only for a time. When Israel will repent, and as a nation be restor4ed to the place she had before she rebelled. When the times of the gentiles are complete. The times of the gentiles are not complete yet.
[quoteisrael and the church are not separate.[/quote]
As far as salvation you are correct. As far as Gods representatives on earth. They are separate. The church (gentile) is Gods representative now. Isreal is not. They do not even Follow God. But OT prophesy, And NT prophesy says that in the end. the church will fall away, (this will be the end of gentile representation) and Israel will be restored.
These are Gods words not mine sis.
Well if 70 AD was the fulfillment there is a 30 year gap. because messiah was cut off (killed ) at the end of the 69th week. which puts 37 years between this week and the end of the 70th. So either way there is a gap.
Still love ya also. But 70 weeks have not yet been fulfilled. The times of the gentiles is now. Has not ended. SO Israel has not yet returned .
Daniel was not praying for a few to be saved. He was praying for his people to repent and be restored. And God be mercifull to them.
Can't be it. Or romans 11 is null and void and a lie. As paul said they are grafted in. But only for a time. When Israel will repent, and as a nation be restor4ed to the place she had before she rebelled. When the times of the gentiles are complete. The times of the gentiles are not complete yet.
[quoteisrael and the church are not separate.[/quote]
As far as salvation you are correct. As far as Gods representatives on earth. They are separate. The church (gentile) is Gods representative now. Isreal is not. They do not even Follow God. But OT prophesy, And NT prophesy says that in the end. the church will fall away, (this will be the end of gentile representation) and Israel will be restored.
These are Gods words not mine sis.
Well if 70 AD was the fulfillment there is a 30 year gap. because messiah was cut off (killed ) at the end of the 69th week. which puts 37 years between this week and the end of the 70th. So either way there is a gap.
unbelieving jews are lost, same with unbelieving gentiles.
Daniel 9 is fulfilled, as are most prophecies: all that stuff dipensationalists are told refer to a future millennium are either already fulfilled or look to the eternal state, and New Jerusalem.
the Pharisees cooked up a counterfeit eschaton and american evangelicals have been following the script for quite osme time.
but time to wake up now.
all we got left is satan's short space which involves the great apostasy, and the Second Advent.
still luv ya
Daniel 9 is fulfilled, as are most prophecies: all that stuff dipensationalists are told refer to a future millennium are either already fulfilled or look to the eternal state, and New Jerusalem.
the Pharisees cooked up a counterfeit eschaton and american evangelicals have been following the script for quite osme time.
but time to wake up now.
all we got left is satan's short space which involves the great apostasy, and the Second Advent.
still luv ya