DRUNK IN THE SPIRIT

PeterJens · Feb 13, 2017

Simple problem. Until the new covenant people could not have the level of communion
with the Lord we now have.

The spirit did fall on groups and they ended up prophesying

When all those who had formerly known him saw him prophesying with the prophets, they asked each other, “What is this that has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?”
1 Sam 10:11

Someone has suggested being drunk in behaviour is actually a curse rather
than a blessing. Certainly certain emotional states can create this euphoria,
which seems to overcome some.

But we do all know as believers feeling the presence of God and being moved,
so to a degree we share some of this experience.

What is hard is when this experience which should be in the Lord a good thing
is used in the wrong context, the wrong teaching and for the wrong reasons.
This has made me wary, as demonstrated by laughing uncontrollably, which
is a pure pscyhological reaction to an absurd idea, which I do do when some
rediculous idea is suggested as sensible.

It makes me wonder if the Lord is sending on people something they think is
a blessing but is to demonstrate the lostness of the approach as a warning.

samuel23 · Feb 13, 2017

Tongues and prophecy I find in the bible, however I do not find drunk in the spirit, slain in the spirit, excessive laughter in the spirit, people fainting at the wave of a hand. The people that do these things do have an anointing, however is there anything in the bible that would tell us that such things are of God?

wolfwint · Feb 14, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Then many you can answer to me why this was not taught before 1900? And why this is only taugth from the same people which claiming to got the second baptism with the Holy Spirit? According 1. Cor. 12 and 14 speaking in tongues is a gift like all others too. Would this be for today. It would be normal during the whole churchhistorie for all believers. But that's not!

88 · Feb 14, 2017

wolfwint said:

**** Early Church Fathers experienced the Holy Spirit----- tongues ect.---- 100's of years ago in America--- the Shakers--- those in the First and Second Great Awakening experienced the Holy Spirit manifestations----- the Church repressed such things---- even teaching salvation by faith---- they tried to kill Luther for preaching just salvation...

wolfwint · Feb 14, 2017

88 said:

So then according your post we had the first Christians in Germany in the year 1907. Luther did not taught that speaking in tongues is for today. Otherweise all Protestants would do so. Also nor Calvin nor Menno Simon's ore the founder of Baptist churches taugth this.
And yes the early churchfathers spoke from the gift speaking in tongues. But non of them spoke from a second baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues. And also the shakers did not.

Ahwatukee · Feb 14, 2017

samuel23 said:

Yeah, I would agree with you. Not found in scripture. That would be right up there with the snake handlers and those who drink watered down Strychnine poison on stage.

Adstar · Feb 14, 2017

I will remain Sober thank you..

1 Peter 5: KJV
{8} Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

posthuman · Feb 14, 2017

PeterJens said:

yes, what kind of sign is "a spirit of stupor"

?

Grace777x70 · Feb 14, 2017

wolfwint said:

Simple...why wasn't justification by faith taught for the 1300 years in the established catholic church before Luther came and said "The just shall live by faith"? When you find the answer for that - you'll find your answer.

Why wasn't it "normal" for 1300 years for people to live by faith in Christ's work?

There have also been some throughout history that have spoke with tongues just as I bet there were those for 1300 years that believed they were saved by faith - even though the religious leaders told them different.

Here are links showing this to be true.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/evidence-speaking-tongues-early-church

Talking Pentecostalism: The history of tongues

As, I said before - trying to tell me that speaking in tongues to our Father is not for today is foolishness as I speak constantly to my Father and hundreds of millions of other "believers" do as well. This is like an atheist trying to tell me that Jesus is not real.

Enow · Feb 14, 2017

88 said:

Instead of drunkenness, remain filled with the Spirit as in maintaining the fruit of the Spirit that is called temperance which is self control. This is not the empowerment nor the refreshing at salvation, but the call to remain sober. There is no supernatural event to remain sober. It is a call NOT to be drunk with wine wherein there is excess, but there is no excness whwn it comes to the Spirit because being filled with the Spirit means you are filled with the Spirit; not seeking to be filled with the Spirit.

Otherwise, every time a believer sins, they should seek to be filled with the Spirit, but HOLD ON there, we can never tell if they really are when they are drunk with the Spirit. That makes sense? Does that abstain from all appearances of evil when God mimic the works of the flesh? Where is the fruit of self control when it is GONE when drunk in the Spirit?

So let's STOP reading into the text what is obviously a call to be sober.

garee · Feb 14, 2017

Went backwards, fell backwards, backwards ,etc are all one in the same thing. Falling back is a metaphor for being under the judgment of God. Remember Christ said without parables he spoke not hiding the spiritual meaning from one while revealing it to another.

Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Jeremiah 15:6 Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting.

Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

Psalms 40:14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Psalms 70:2 Let them be ashamed and confounded that seek after my soul: let them be turned backward, and put to confusion, that desire my hurt.

No such thing as drunk in the spirit .That kind of idea is used by the sign seekers that have no confidence in their salvation so they add some work they do to prove to themselves they do have the Holy Spirit.By doing so they make the cross without effect.

We walk by the faith that comes from hearing God "unseen" Not by sight after some work we could perform before a person will believe they have the Holy Spirit.

Why glory in the flesh?

kaylagrl · Feb 14, 2017

samuel23 said:

I believe the Holy Spirit can come upon a person and they may dance,laugh,fall out under the Spirit. But this is not something that happens every time one goes to church. I have seen the Holy Spirit move on a congregation and it is an amazing experience. Ive also seen churches try to "work up" the Spirit and it doesn't take a whole of discernment to know the difference. Being "drunk in the Spirit" is a fad that came through churches years ago.Be careful of any church that tries to fake the move of the Holy Spirit. Ive seen it all in my travels in ministry,trust me,Ive seen it all! Just use discernment,if it feels off stay away.

Stephen63 · Feb 14, 2017

PeterJens said:

God is sending something..... delusion.

2Thes 2:1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?6And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence (KJV strong delusion) so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

One only needs to look at what the majority believes & what the minority believes. Jesus said few will be saved & many will go through the wide gate unto destruction.

Grace777x70 · Feb 14, 2017

kaylagrl said:

I agree. I heard a minister say that he has been in over 1,000 services where the Holy Spirit was manifesting His presence and he said that 80% of the time - the people were "reacting" in the flesh. They react that way because they have seen others do it. That doesn't mean that the 20% of the time these people did have a real response to the Spirit and thus we throw it all out now.

I think the leadership needs to be sensitive to reprove those that are in the flesh gently but firmly so that they can grow up in Him and not be a hindrance and stumbling block to others.

Enow · Feb 14, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

It isn't when God wants us to pray normally so that we know what we had prayed for to give the Father thanks in His name for known answered to prayers. If you do not know what you had prayed for, then where are your genuine thanks?

The problem here is not reading in context of what God wants us to know what the message really is about.

But it is not really about Jesus Christ and Him crucified; this is about something extra apart from salvation which is not of Him nor what we are representing as if there is another calling separate from salvation.

Look at this verse here to see how you can know you are misreading the chapter.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]28[/SUP]But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

So let's be clear about what we are talking about; is the Holy Spirit using tongues as a secret prayer language or are you praying?

If the Holy Spirit is praying, then how dare Paul give the instruction for anyone to be silent when there is no interpretation? It is prayer time for the Holy Spirit... but not so. Then it cannot be a prayer language of the Holy Spirit.

What is Paul talking about in verse 28? Letting everybody know that when 2 or 3 witnesses speak in tongues and another one interpret, but if one speaks with no interpretation, that is a foreigner speaking out of turn and that is why he is to be silent because he speaks to himself, meaning he understands what he is saying, just as he speaks unto God ( not that he is speaking to God but that God understands what he is saying. )

So verse 2 is not about Paul validating tongues as a prayer language, but explaining why tongues is not a stand alone gift as he is pointing out when a person speaks unto God, it is not TO God because he is speaking mysteries and there is NO mysteries to God but the speaking are mysteries to men for they do not understand the tongue, but God does.

So verse 14 has Paul citing that it is not the Holy Spirit praying but his spirit praying while he is speaking in tongues which is manifested by the Holy Spirit, praying for another to interpret that tongue so it will be fruitful to himself. That is another message that tongues was never meant to be a stand alone gift as verse 15 testifies that when Paul speaks in tongues as manifested by the Holy Spirit, he is praying for the understanding of that tongue.

Verse 39 teaches not to forbid in speaking in tongues, as that instruction is for the assembly for God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people as verse 21 cites.

You cannot say that you are reading chapter 14 rightly when in verse 28, Paul gave instruction to forbid speaking in tongues when there is no interpretation. That means tongues always comes with interpretation because it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people; and never to be used as a prayer language by the Holy Spirit.

So it is one or the other. Secret prayer language by the Holy Spirit or you are the one praying in babbling nonsense AND neither is defended in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter.

That whole chapter was about seeking spiritual gifts that Paul says out of them all to seek the gift of prophecy and began to compare prophecy against tongues to show why prophecy is better, because it is a stand alone gift whereas tongues are not.

kaylagrl · Feb 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

I always appreciate your opinion brother,but let me share this and tell me what you think.My aunt,years ago when she was a young woman,had very bad nerve problems. So bad that they put her in the mental ward at the hospital. That traumatized her so much that they had to take her back home. She was a shy person and they just could find no help for her. One night at church her cousin was singing. The Holy Spirit fell at that moment and she jumped from her seat and danced around the entire church,my mother was there as a witness. She never had nerve issues again,she was delivered. She was able to move a thousand miles from her home,marry and raise two children.A woman they thought would have to be institutionalized her whole life. Im not for fads,Im not for show.But I know God moves and the Spirit falls and it may seem out of line,but if we test the Spirit we can know if it is false or not.My aunt was delivered that night,no doubt about it.

Grace777x70 · Feb 14, 2017

There is a private devotional aspect to tongues as well as an assembly side. There are different applications for each one. Miss this and we get a mess in our humanistic thinking.

The Holy Spirit gives us the ability to speak in tongues to our Father but we do the speaking. Same goes for praying with our mind.

1 Corinthians 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

Anyway in my experience this is going to be a complete waste of time to try to show others about the working of the supernatural way of the Spirit of God in and through us. Things of the Spirit are not understood with our natural minds at first.

garee · Feb 14, 2017

I would offer. God knows our thoughts before they come to our lips. I believe it is how he wrote the scriptures putting his words in the mouth of the prophets.

Jeremiah give a example.

Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree.Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it. Jer 1:9

Praying in a tongue today seeing God is no longer bring new prophecy as a revelation it would be adding to the word of God .

There is no language hid from him. When Peter spoke in his own dialect, God interpreted into the other languages.The gift is God interpreting not men making sounds that they themselves do not know the meaning of .

Again he knows the thoughts of our heart, therefore attempting to pray in a tongue with words that have no meaning to those who pray would be fruitless to the believer.

There are many prayers in the Bible to include prayers of David, Solomon ,etc. As those men prayed they were guided by the Holy Spirit to say the words that are written down in the Bible, the word of God .While they prayed God used them to write the scriptures . In those prayers he would reveal himself by the prayer. When David would say in prayer ; before I was born you knew me in the womb. It was not something David thought up.

Likewise today if someone claims to be praying in a tongue inspired by the Holy Spirit then that paryer would just as certainly be the word of God as are the prayers in the bible. If any man thinks he is receiving a revelation from God ,in a dream or a tongue or a vision in that sense they would be adding to the Bible The principle found in revelation 22:18 will be violated by anyone who attempts to pray in a tongue.

Our confidence come from the scriptures the living abiding word of God .Tongues are a sign for those who believe not.

Prophecy for those who do believe .We walk by faith the unseen not by sight after some work we could do outwardly ..

Enow · Feb 14, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil. KJV

God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people will not mimic the supernatural tongue that is just vain & profane babbling that was already in the world before God's gift of tongues had come at Pentecost.

God will never have the Holy Spirit mimic the American Indians' "Great Spirit" that they dance and chant for to come that would bring about a supernatural drunkenness.

God would not tell us to abstain from all appearances of evil if He is not willing to do the same thing, therefore what is a supernatural result in the world that denies Him will not be of Him under the New Covenant.

If you believe we are living in the latter days, then where is this happening in the churches to lead astray and cause many to fall away from the faith?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[SUP]2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Where is it? If it is not falling away from the faith that Jesus Christ is in us by seeking to receive Him again in hypocrisy that brings about supernatural signs that has been seen in the occult and other worldly religions, then where is it?

samuel23 · Feb 14, 2017

If she danced BECAUSE God had delivered her then that is great, if she danced to be delivered then that is another story.

DRUNK IN THE SPIRIT

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