EEEHHHEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! *happy dance*
- Thread starter JFSurvivor
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I have to go for a while, I will leave you once again with Jesus words:
I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth
Why do you shy away from reading what Paul wrote-someone on whom the holy Spirit had come?
If you understood what he wrote and believed it was fully in line with Jesus teaching why don't you fully embrace it?
Jesus said when the holy Spirit came upon the disciples they would be led into all truth
Why do you not allow yourself to be led into truth by those to whom the spirit had come?
I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth
Why do you shy away from reading what Paul wrote-someone on whom the holy Spirit had come?
If you understood what he wrote and believed it was fully in line with Jesus teaching why don't you fully embrace it?
Jesus said when the holy Spirit came upon the disciples they would be led into all truth
Why do you not allow yourself to be led into truth by those to whom the spirit had come?
This is a difficult answer for me because in my personal life I start with the ten commandments, the law of Moses was given after the 10 commandments. If we read the 600+ laws we will quickly see what is relevant and what not because you have laws for tilling the ground, slaves etc that will not be relevant to us. That is why I give you this vague answer because there are things that will be relevant and some things that will be totally irrelevant.
Silly. The 10 commandments weren't written in the book of the law?
Silly.
As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up [any] iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings. And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel. Joshua 8:31-32
Silly.
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Just a quick question.
Isn't the teaching of Jesus enough guidance for the Christian?
Did Jesus not cover everything a Christian should know as to how to live their life?
If he did, why do you keep referring to the Ten Commandments?
You do know a person could perfectly obey the Ten Commandments(if that were possible) and still be condemned to hell don't you?
There is nothing in those commands about forgiving others
But Jesus said if you don't forgive you will not be forgiven
Isn't the teaching of Jesus enough guidance for the Christian?
Did Jesus not cover everything a Christian should know as to how to live their life?
If he did, why do you keep referring to the Ten Commandments?
You do know a person could perfectly obey the Ten Commandments(if that were possible) and still be condemned to hell don't you?
There is nothing in those commands about forgiving others
But Jesus said if you don't forgive you will not be forgiven
Show me a Christian who believes it is fine to kill, commit adultery, steal, lie, bear false witness, take the Lords name in vain not love God, and I will show you a fake.
But you need to accept where your conclusions/beliefs take you, not close your eyes to them. According to your belief I and others who do not specifically observe a Saturday Sabbath must be in wilfull rebellion against God without conscience. Yet you say we are your brothers and sisters in Christ
Are you antinomian?
I will tell you now. It is not possible for anyone to be a Christian if they are in open rebellion against God without conscience
The law God requires you to keep has been placed on your heart. You must have heartfelt conviction you sin when you break it.
Therefore, either the fourth commandment as written has not been placed on the heart of Christians, or no one can be a Christian unless they are conscious they sin by not observing a Saturday Sabbath.
Have you the strength of conviction therefore to acknowledge that?
But you need to accept where your conclusions/beliefs take you, not close your eyes to them. According to your belief I and others who do not specifically observe a Saturday Sabbath must be in wilfull rebellion against God without conscience. Yet you say we are your brothers and sisters in Christ
Are you antinomian?
I will tell you now. It is not possible for anyone to be a Christian if they are in open rebellion against God without conscience
The law God requires you to keep has been placed on your heart. You must have heartfelt conviction you sin when you break it.
Therefore, either the fourth commandment as written has not been placed on the heart of Christians, or no one can be a Christian unless they are conscious they sin by not observing a Saturday Sabbath.
Have you the strength of conviction therefore to acknowledge that?
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That contradicts even OT scripture.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
You can't really decide which laws are relevant and which laws aren't without relying on your own understanding.
Using your "common sense" is not the way God would have us follow Him. Faith is the Way God has decided we would follow Him. Faith is not common. And it contradicts your understanding.
Why are you so worried that Faith in God will cause you to break commandments? The only law Faith breaks is your current carnal understanding of what you think the law says. Like when the pharisees accused the Lord Jesus of breaking the sabbath. The Lord Jesus had broken their (and many others) carnal understanding of their spiritual law.
Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Is your working at the law causing any changes in you? Is it perfecting you? No, it can't. Working at the law is not of faith.
We should obey the 10 commandments. But we can't. If we could, then the Lord Jesus would not have had any reason to be the unblemished Sacrifice that He is. John could have just told everyone to repent and obey the commandments and that would be the end of the "new" testament.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
You can't really decide which laws are relevant and which laws aren't without relying on your own understanding.
Using your "common sense" is not the way God would have us follow Him. Faith is the Way God has decided we would follow Him. Faith is not common. And it contradicts your understanding.
Why are you so worried that Faith in God will cause you to break commandments? The only law Faith breaks is your current carnal understanding of what you think the law says. Like when the pharisees accused the Lord Jesus of breaking the sabbath. The Lord Jesus had broken their (and many others) carnal understanding of their spiritual law.
Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Is your working at the law causing any changes in you? Is it perfecting you? No, it can't. Working at the law is not of faith.
We should obey the 10 commandments. But we can't. If we could, then the Lord Jesus would not have had any reason to be the unblemished Sacrifice that He is. John could have just told everyone to repent and obey the commandments and that would be the end of the "new" testament.
Acts 15:5,10
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
(In case you would try to say that it was some other law than the 10 commandments that the Disciples were referring to as the yoke that neither they nor their fathers could bear.)
The Lord Jesus Christ absolutely came to give us a new way and the Disciples clearly knew this.
Does this mean that God changed? No. He changed the way we approach and commune with Him. He gave us a Perfect Way instead of an imperfect one.
Hebrews 7:12,16,19
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
All ye that labour and are heavy laden. All the people who are working at the law but cannot bear its yoke.
If you think you can bear the yoke of the 10 commandments then you clearly do not understand what they say.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
That's a heavy yoke to perform by your own understanding and cherry picking of the law.
Its perfect rest when you come to the Lord Jesus Christ and let Him perfect you. By not being under the Law but being under Christ and His Grace.
Law, Grace, Law, Grace, Law, Grace.
mmmmmm. I'll take Grace for a thousand, Alex...
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
(In case you would try to say that it was some other law than the 10 commandments that the Disciples were referring to as the yoke that neither they nor their fathers could bear.)
The Lord Jesus Christ absolutely came to give us a new way and the Disciples clearly knew this.
Does this mean that God changed? No. He changed the way we approach and commune with Him. He gave us a Perfect Way instead of an imperfect one.
Hebrews 7:12,16,19
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
All ye that labour and are heavy laden. All the people who are working at the law but cannot bear its yoke.
If you think you can bear the yoke of the 10 commandments then you clearly do not understand what they say.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
That's a heavy yoke to perform by your own understanding and cherry picking of the law.
Its perfect rest when you come to the Lord Jesus Christ and let Him perfect you. By not being under the Law but being under Christ and His Grace.
Law, Grace, Law, Grace, Law, Grace.
mmmmmm. I'll take Grace for a thousand, Alex...
T
I am so sorry you suffer from PTSD. This can't be easy and it sounds like you're looking for people to accept you. God can sympathize with that pain of rejection. He has so much patience and love for us. People have a hard time empathizing with each other. Imagine a world full of empathy. Even if you never find that love and understanding from people in a church or anywhere know that God loves you unconditionally.
I've been a Christian for many years, but for most of those years I had never truly had an encounter with God's love. I just knew that God loves me because the b-i-b-l-e tells me so. Then I had this love encounter with God and suddenly I wasn't the same again. I began to fall madly in love with him. Church, people's treatment of me and religion weren't important. I still struggle with many things and people frustrate me--that's part of the human condition, but having that encounter with the love of God has made all the difference. I so desire to live for him, so I preoccupy my days doing good to others.
I wish I could help every hurting person.
God loves you!
I've been a Christian for many years, but for most of those years I had never truly had an encounter with God's love. I just knew that God loves me because the b-i-b-l-e tells me so. Then I had this love encounter with God and suddenly I wasn't the same again. I began to fall madly in love with him. Church, people's treatment of me and religion weren't important. I still struggle with many things and people frustrate me--that's part of the human condition, but having that encounter with the love of God has made all the difference. I so desire to live for him, so I preoccupy my days doing good to others.
I wish I could help every hurting person.
God loves you!
I am so sorry you suffer from PTSD. This can't be easy and it sounds like you're looking for people to accept you. God can sympathize with that pain of rejection. He has so much patience and love for us. People have a hard time empathizing with each other. Imagine a world full of empathy. Even if you never find that love and understanding from people in a church or anywhere know that God loves you unconditionally.
I've been a Christian for many years, but for most of those years I had never truly had an encounter with God's love. I just knew that God loves me because the b-i-b-l-e tells me so. Then I had this love encounter with God and suddenly I wasn't the same again. I began to fall madly in love with him. Church, people's treatment of me and religion weren't important. I still struggle with many things and people frustrate me--that's part of the human condition, but having that encounter with the love of God has made all the difference. I so desire to live for him, so I preoccupy my days doing good to others.
I wish I could help every hurting person. God loves you!
I've been a Christian for many years, but for most of those years I had never truly had an encounter with God's love. I just knew that God loves me because the b-i-b-l-e tells me so. Then I had this love encounter with God and suddenly I wasn't the same again. I began to fall madly in love with him. Church, people's treatment of me and religion weren't important. I still struggle with many things and people frustrate me--that's part of the human condition, but having that encounter with the love of God has made all the difference. I so desire to live for him, so I preoccupy my days doing good to others.
I wish I could help every hurting person.
God loves you!
G
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Remember Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Hear Him ! Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Remember Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Hear Him !
Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
There are 613 commandments, about one third of them are to do with the Priesthood, Temple and Animal Sacrifices.
There is also a belief in the Oral commandments that God gave to Moses. These were written down and are what is known as the Talmud. in addition to these there are hundreds of writings from various Rabbis. Many of the Laws such as those you mention have been reinterpreted to adapt to modern conditions. Point is we should stick to the Moral Commandments otherwise we will start to slide down a never ending slippery slope.
There is also a belief in the Oral commandments that God gave to Moses. These were written down and are what is known as the Talmud. in addition to these there are hundreds of writings from various Rabbis. Many of the Laws such as those you mention have been reinterpreted to adapt to modern conditions. Point is we should stick to the Moral Commandments otherwise we will start to slide down a never ending slippery slope.
Re: The Voice
The Voice
GENESIS 26
[3]Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee,
and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH
WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father;
[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed
all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
[5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge,
MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.
Abraham was observing to keep Gods 10 commandments
He heard and obeyed Gods "voice".
DEUT. 27
[8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly.
[9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed,
and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God .
[10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and
DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire:
ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
[13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM,
EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
ZEPHANIAH 3
[1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
[2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the
LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are ROARING LIONS;
her judges are evening WOLVES; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
[4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary,
THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.
JOHN 10
[27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Also Gods sheep shall also hear His “voice”.
HEBREWS 4 [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they
to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time;
as it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, harden not your hearts.
This was prophecied to happen.
DEUTERONOMY 4
[26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish
from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days
upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
[27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, and ye shall
be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.
[28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone,
which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
[30] When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee,
even in THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be OBEDIENT UNTO HIS VOICE;
[31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither
destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
Remember Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Hear Him !
And there came [a voice] out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
And there came [a voice] out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
GENESIS 26
[3]Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee,
and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH
WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father;
[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed
all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
[5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge,
MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.
Abraham was observing to keep Gods 10 commandments
He heard and obeyed Gods "voice".
DEUT. 27
[8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly.
[9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed,
and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God .
[10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and
DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire:
ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
[13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM,
EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
ZEPHANIAH 3
[1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
[2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the
LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are ROARING LIONS;
her judges are evening WOLVES; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
[4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary,
THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.
JOHN 10
[27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Also Gods sheep shall also hear His “voice”.
HEBREWS 4 [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they
to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time;
as it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, harden not your hearts.
This was prophecied to happen.
DEUTERONOMY 4
[26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish
from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days
upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
[27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, and ye shall
be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.
[28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone,
which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
[30] When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee,
even in THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be OBEDIENT UNTO HIS VOICE;
[31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither
destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
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