-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The war against God would seem to have started with Satan, who then brought it to the garden of Eden via the temptation of Eve, who was deceived by his lies, and Adam's direct disobedience to the command not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil caused the fall of the whole of creation.
Atheists generally do not accept any Scriptural take on things
Atheists generally do not accept any Scriptural take on things
"Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Gen 3:1
Is it not written in Genesis 1:29 "...and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."It doesn't say that we can't eat of any tree but rather the tree in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed shall be for protein which is the nutritional source primarily derived from meats. So what exactly does the fruit of a tree yielding seed mean? The nut being the seed of the tree or the pericarp of the fruit of the tree?
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: [3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Genesis 3
So what if a real tree then what tree did they actually eat of? Based upon the fact they made aprons of leaves after their eyes were opened then wouldn't it be likely that it was also the tree they ate of?
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." Genesis 3:7
So did the serpent lie when he said the following? "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." If he did then why is it written in Genesis 3:22; "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:..."
How does one know that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was referring unto a actual tree, Genesis 6:3 seems to infer that maybe it could have been a book since several scriptures refer unto the 'book of life' such as in Revelations 13:8, "...in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Last edited:
C
I honestly never thought of Adam and Eve as literal. I saw it as a metaphor for being born in to this life. You are born in the garden of Eden which is earth. Desolation and cold solitude of other planets show earth is paradise in comparison. We will all be confronted with a serpent and its lies. We will all be seduced to try the apple of temptation. It also shows us that in taking that bite God will banish you from his garden.
Hello Cumulus-halo
I thought you might want to hear from a former atheist. First off many atheist like myself in the past know nothing of scripture.
What they know is from a movie or a book by folks like Dawkins . You best bet is to get him to question his disbelief. Attack his ignorance of the Bible without insulting or without going into detail on any particular scripture. That will only take you out into the weeds . Try showing him that science changes and theories on some subjects come an go yet main line Christianity has not it stands firm . Your talks may resemble verbal ping pong . That will be ok ,as long as your not arguing. Also if you don't have a immediate answer to a question tell him so . Don't give a off hand response that may be wrong that will only set you back if he finds out . The whole discussion must be approached with prayer and patience bro .
I hope that helps . If you like ask more questions or pm me if you think I can help .
Blessings
Bill
I thought you might want to hear from a former atheist. First off many atheist like myself in the past know nothing of scripture.
What they know is from a movie or a book by folks like Dawkins . You best bet is to get him to question his disbelief. Attack his ignorance of the Bible without insulting or without going into detail on any particular scripture. That will only take you out into the weeds . Try showing him that science changes and theories on some subjects come an go yet main line Christianity has not it stands firm . Your talks may resemble verbal ping pong . That will be ok ,as long as your not arguing. Also if you don't have a immediate answer to a question tell him so . Don't give a off hand response that may be wrong that will only set you back if he finds out . The whole discussion must be approached with prayer and patience bro .
I hope that helps . If you like ask more questions or pm me if you think I can help .
Blessings
Bill
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
Gen 5:30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
Gen 5:31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
Gen 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
Luk 3:24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
Luk 3:37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
But we cannot ignore these scriptures,for Adam and Eve were real people,the first 2 people,and Eve is the mother of all living,and Jesus' genealogy traces back to Adam and Eve,and Noah came from the line of Adam and Eve.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
Gen 5:30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
Gen 5:31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
Gen 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
Luk 3:24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
Luk 3:37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
But we cannot ignore these scriptures,for Adam and Eve were real people,the first 2 people,and Eve is the mother of all living,and Jesus' genealogy traces back to Adam and Eve,and Noah came from the line of Adam and Eve.
Your font is minuscule and extremely difficult (if not impossible) to read as it is
The lie? Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
The sad thing is, the lie at the heart of the fall of
all creation is being parroted to this very day.
The lie? Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
The sad thing is, the lie at the heart of the fall of
all creation is being parroted to this very day.
Yes, He did. Adam and Eve could have eaten from the Tree of Life before that, but after their disobedience and banishment from the garden, the Tree of Life was barred to them. The serpent did not say, you will not die this day, but simply that they would not surely die, and surely they did, albeit hundreds of years later, and we are all born to die, for we are born into/after the sinful flesh of Adam, and would pass into the second death but for being born again of the Spirit of God by consuming of the Tree of Life, and becoming heirs of the Kingdom via the Son of God, Who gave His life as a ransom for many by paying the sin debt, which is death. All those whose names are blotted out of the Lamb's book of life shall pass into the final, second and everlasting death. They shall surely die.
there will always be hooks to hang your doubts on but that's why we have faith.
An intelligent faith. And evolution has changed it's theories and understandings many times, it isn't stable.
The Bible is stable and makes sense.
Prophesy can't be disproven. The books written over 3000 years ago have prophesies that have come to past exactly as predicted and are continuing to come true today.
An intelligent faith. And evolution has changed it's theories and understandings many times, it isn't stable.
The Bible is stable and makes sense.
Prophesy can't be disproven. The books written over 3000 years ago have prophesies that have come to past exactly as predicted and are continuing to come true today.
I don't know if you would think these things qualify but...
It says in more than one place that the earth is round, so that is knowledge that was lost for some time (and men lost their lives over the argument of flat vs. round.)
A virgin gave birth and men argue that it is impossible, yet now even MEN can cause a virgin to give birth through artificial insemination, so...I don't even understand how they can keep up that argument. They're basically saying that God can't cause to happen what men can now cause to happen.
The other thing that comes to mind is how God commanded them to circumcise males on the 8th day after birth. Then science comes to find that there are two substances a male human does not produce in any significant amounts until the 8th day after his birth. These two substances are necessary for clotting of blood, so a male is more likely to bleed out and not clot for the first 7 days.
This one isn't in the bible but it is in a very old scroll that came from the Egyptians. They called it The Eber Scroll and it was a sort of medical book of the practices of the Hebrew (Eber) people. One of the things in it was to put a piece of moldy bread on a cut. Centuries later, science discovers penicillin, which is a mold!
It says in more than one place that the earth is round, so that is knowledge that was lost for some time (and men lost their lives over the argument of flat vs. round.)
A virgin gave birth and men argue that it is impossible, yet now even MEN can cause a virgin to give birth through artificial insemination, so...I don't even understand how they can keep up that argument. They're basically saying that God can't cause to happen what men can now cause to happen.
The other thing that comes to mind is how God commanded them to circumcise males on the 8th day after birth. Then science comes to find that there are two substances a male human does not produce in any significant amounts until the 8th day after his birth. These two substances are necessary for clotting of blood, so a male is more likely to bleed out and not clot for the first 7 days.
This one isn't in the bible but it is in a very old scroll that came from the Egyptians. They called it The Eber Scroll and it was a sort of medical book of the practices of the Hebrew (Eber) people. One of the things in it was to put a piece of moldy bread on a cut. Centuries later, science discovers penicillin, which is a mold!
Gen 2:17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
Adam "died" in the day he ate from the above tree - but it was not physical death which is natural. What he suffered was "spiritual death" - a separation from God's fellowship which is restored in Christ.
If Christ's death was to reverse the effect of Adam's sin then the conclusion is that His sacrifice was ineffective because not one Christian ever skipped the grave.
Now I know some of yus is gonna try and make a case of the "second death" in the book of revelation yada yada.
Adam "died" in the day he ate from the above tree - but it was not physical death which is natural. What he suffered was "spiritual death" - a separation from God's fellowship which is restored in Christ.
If Christ's death was to reverse the effect of Adam's sin then the conclusion is that His sacrifice was ineffective because not one Christian ever skipped the grave.
Now I know some of yus is gonna try and make a case of the "second death" in the book of revelation yada yada.
So if the male was called Adam then what was the name of the female since it is written that And God (Elohim; plural) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: Genesis 1:26
Was Eve the mother of Adam? Was Eve the mother of the serpent?
If that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit then
"...and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh,..." Numbers 16:22
".. the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, ...." Numbers 27:16
Since a man and his wife are one flesh, then why did the male called his wife's name Eve after their eyes were opened, to which it is written in Genesis 3:22, And the LORD God said, Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.
20 Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
21 Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
Job 28
Was Eve the mother of Adam? Was Eve the mother of the serpent?
If that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit then
"...and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh,..." Numbers 16:22
".. the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, ...." Numbers 27:16
Since a man and his wife are one flesh, then why did the male called his wife's name Eve after their eyes were opened, to which it is written in Genesis 3:22, And the LORD God said, Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.
20 Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
21 Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
Job 28
The body without the spirit is dead. James 2:26
So if the spirit dies, then the body dies too. So if they "spiritually" died then they would have died physically too.
As far as spiritual death being separation from God's fellowship which was restored in Christ, that is reproved by the scriptures that Noah walked and talked with God. If Noah walked and talked with God then how did he have fellowship with God if there was no fellowship with God until Christ?
So if the spirit dies, then the body dies too. So if they "spiritually" died then they would have died physically too.
As far as spiritual death being separation from God's fellowship which was restored in Christ, that is reproved by the scriptures that Noah walked and talked with God. If Noah walked and talked with God then how did he have fellowship with God if there was no fellowship with God until Christ?
Once you've posted you only have a 5 min window to edit. It's recommended you use the 'go advanced' button instead of 'quick reply' because that makes another button, 'preview post' appear that you can use infinite times to edit before finally posting, plus it opens a bigger formatting menu.
It seems to me that the 'science vs religion' war is a false one too, and that it got its start about the same time humanism formally did, in the 15th-16th centuries. The foundations of scientific inquiry go back much further and actually have origins in the axiomatic belief that the universe is created by a God of order, so that the universe must be created according to recognisable patterns and laws, which reflect on His character and wisdom.
It wasn't until godless thinkers, puffed up with what they thought was something like full knowledge and understanding, came along much later that they began to usurp understanding of the observed and deduced nature of creation and use ((abuse)) it to forward foolish, atheistic arguments, promoting humanity as its own God, themselves all gods, in their blind pride of what they saw as reason.
The church today has fled reason, in favour of passion and emotion, in large part, but that's hardly representative of Christian thinking throughout history. One read-through of Romans or Hebrews should demonstrate that Christian belief according to scripture is seriously intellectual and cerebral, and that the mind is never encouraged to be 'tuned down's for the sake of faith. But as modern American Christianity goes ((which is all i'm really familiar with)) we seem to be headed in the opposite direction much of the time.
A dangerous pity IMO and this attitude contributes to the rejection of 'science' en masse among the self-described 'faithful' -- because bluntly, we often just plain don't understand what we're talking about and no longer 'feel' like we need to. We have been taught, and we teach our own children, that 'science' = 'evolution' = 'abiogenesis' = 'atheism' though no part of that tautology is valid.
Of course i'm painting with a broad brush, and i apologize for that. But really doing this topic justice would take pages and pages and pages, and the no one would read it.
TLDR:
pffft, read it
i typed this on my phone, so c'mon
It seems to me that the 'science vs religion' war is a false one too, and that it got its start about the same time humanism formally did, in the 15th-16th centuries. The foundations of scientific inquiry go back much further and actually have origins in the axiomatic belief that the universe is created by a God of order, so that the universe must be created according to recognisable patterns and laws, which reflect on His character and wisdom.
It wasn't until godless thinkers, puffed up with what they thought was something like full knowledge and understanding, came along much later that they began to usurp understanding of the observed and deduced nature of creation and use ((abuse)) it to forward foolish, atheistic arguments, promoting humanity as its own God, themselves all gods, in their blind pride of what they saw as reason.
The church today has fled reason, in favour of passion and emotion, in large part, but that's hardly representative of Christian thinking throughout history. One read-through of Romans or Hebrews should demonstrate that Christian belief according to scripture is seriously intellectual and cerebral, and that the mind is never encouraged to be 'tuned down's for the sake of faith. But as modern American Christianity goes ((which is all i'm really familiar with)) we seem to be headed in the opposite direction much of the time.
A dangerous pity IMO and this attitude contributes to the rejection of 'science' en masse among the self-described 'faithful' -- because bluntly, we often just plain don't understand what we're talking about and no longer 'feel' like we need to. We have been taught, and we teach our own children, that 'science' = 'evolution' = 'abiogenesis' = 'atheism' though no part of that tautology is valid.
Of course i'm painting with a broad brush, and i apologize for that. But really doing this topic justice would take pages and pages and pages, and the no one would read it.
TLDR:
pffft, read it
i typed this on my phone, so c'mon
As far as Noah and others such as Moses are concerned they were not restored to fellowship as Christians are which is true fellowship with God through the re-birth in Christ:
1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Only in Christ is true fellowship restored - Christians have access to the living water, I doubt whether this could be said for those pre-Christ worthies:
If you've received the holy spirit then you have been restored to the garden and the fellowship that Adam had with God:
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The water of life has been flowing since Pentecost, it flowed out of the "belly" of the apostles.
If people want to survive on Coca Cola whom am I to argue...
1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Only in Christ is true fellowship restored - Christians have access to the living water, I doubt whether this could be said for those pre-Christ worthies:
If you've received the holy spirit then you have been restored to the garden and the fellowship that Adam had with God:
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The water of life has been flowing since Pentecost, it flowed out of the "belly" of the apostles.
If people want to survive on Coca Cola whom am I to argue...