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Tcorn, I ask this. If it was evelution, why is there only life on this planet, and not on all? Life is the answer to the question. There has to be a God that maintains life.
I am a mechanical/structural/civil engineer and I am not a bad one. We design many things but the life in things still is a mystery of how effecient life works. If I build a machine with the best parts available to us, I use more than four thousand times the equiveland energy that an ant to lift an equivelant weight.
For an ant to lift a mass seven times his own weight and carry it 100 times his own length, takes X amount of energy. If I want to achive the same feat with a machine, I will use at least nine thousand times the equivilant energy. Becasue now move ment is in two dirctions.
The machine can be as "energy efficient" as I can build it, but the ant is at least 2000 times a better design. Just show you how well a living insect is made. That is enough for me to give praise to something better than me! I believe it is the Lord God that Jesus represented.
I am a mechanical/structural/civil engineer and I am not a bad one. We design many things but the life in things still is a mystery of how effecient life works. If I build a machine with the best parts available to us, I use more than four thousand times the equiveland energy that an ant to lift an equivelant weight.
For an ant to lift a mass seven times his own weight and carry it 100 times his own length, takes X amount of energy. If I want to achive the same feat with a machine, I will use at least nine thousand times the equivilant energy. Becasue now move ment is in two dirctions.
The machine can be as "energy efficient" as I can build it, but the ant is at least 2000 times a better design. Just show you how well a living insect is made. That is enough for me to give praise to something better than me! I believe it is the Lord God that Jesus represented.
J
You might want to check out creationetoday.org. I believe you will find some useful resources there.
2
Sorry, I believe the Bible, so I believe like you do.
The earth pre existed for some time as a rock the age of the rocks is however the texts determine
God came down on creation day, and in six days created all things.
As he spoke it exsted, and it existed VERY RIGHT (original translation)
God creates a new planet every week somewhere, he is the eternal creator
there are millions of planets with beings on them already.
and no, they dont need spaceships....
only earth fell, due to satans direct lying and attack on Adam and Eve...
The earth pre existed for some time as a rock the age of the rocks is however the texts determine
God came down on creation day, and in six days created all things.
As he spoke it exsted, and it existed VERY RIGHT (original translation)
God creates a new planet every week somewhere, he is the eternal creator
there are millions of planets with beings on them already.
and no, they dont need spaceships....
only earth fell, due to satans direct lying and attack on Adam and Eve...
R
I believe it does not matter if He did it in 6 literal days or some other measurement.
What matters to me is that He is creating the world in 7 steps, and this is the near end of #6, when man is a finished and successful work.
The creation account, and many other parts of the old testament are written in a special verb tense that we do not use or think about much. It is a tense that is ongoing, past present and future.
Was, is, is to come.
Young's literal translation is the only one I've found that makes some effort at maintaining this special tense in places.
What matters to me is that He is creating the world in 7 steps, and this is the near end of #6, when man is a finished and successful work.
The creation account, and many other parts of the old testament are written in a special verb tense that we do not use or think about much. It is a tense that is ongoing, past present and future.
Was, is, is to come.
Young's literal translation is the only one I've found that makes some effort at maintaining this special tense in places.
G
I appreciate you exploring the alternative, if you're looking for a good website on the opposing point of view here's one.
Frequently Asked Questions About Creationism and Evolution"
Frequently Asked Questions About Creationism and Evolution"
K
To the OP, Yes God created the world that we know in six literal days. However if you look at the Hebrew, The heavens and the Earth were created before the six day account. In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth. Look at the Hebrew, The Earth became void and full of darkness and the Holy Spirit was hovering over the waters. Then the six day account begins. Look it up.
N
I believe in creation account differently ( no evolution though) But, I'm more detailed with what I believe.( considering more scripture )
Gen 1:1 says the heaven and earth was created in the beginning. ( but dose not when the beaning was )
For that reason, I believe the earth is billions of years old.
In verse 2 reading the surface the English , it appears that it just "was", that way void and without form.
But we can read Isaiah 45:18, God says, He did Not create the world void or without form.
When verse 2 is looked at from the Hebrew it was taken: it reads there was a literal destruction to the surface of the earth, that it ' became ', void and without form, sometime after verse one.
There is a destruction recorded in Jeremiah 4:22-28. Here we can read there was a destruction to the earth, but that there was No man left; not even aboard and ark. And there were no cities.
From Genesis 1 starting at the end of verse two ( And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. ) and to verse 8.
We see waters receding, and dry land appearing.
Peter has some valuabel insight into Genesis . In 2nd Peter chapter 3. Peter says, the world age ( greek ) was destoryed, by water.
2 Peter 3:
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: ( the first. )
The second which we are currently still in, would be what followed, and is the time Noah's flood took place.
So we have two floods recorded in the Bible. And first world wide flood of the first world ( age ) Recorded here, and in Gen 1:2 , and Jeremiah 4 etc). And a second flood, of the second earth ( age ) of Genesis 6.
When we read of each day in Genesis 1 is speaking of a rejuvenating of the surface of the earth, where by, it can be habitable again. Peter also gave farther teachings about Genesis . He says that each day to God is a thousand years to man, and vice versa:
2Peter3:
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
And I certainly don't want to be ignorant of that.
So each day God was rejuvenating the earth, and creating life upon it: took about 6,000 years. ( when we tack on time that has passed since then, I think we get over 10,000 years ago.
So we can say, that man in flesh, has lived on earth for over 6,000 years. But the earth its' self is billions of years in age.
He created man in the sixth day in v 26. In the Hebrew it reads Elohim ( not God ), man without a article = mankind. He has hunters of fish, and animals etc. But there is no mention of a tiller of soil here.
Then in verse 27,God says In his own image, in the Hebrew accent ( Pasek ), places the emphasis on God. ''man'' in verse 27 has a article and a demonstrative Hebrew 'eth, to indicate that "the man Adam" created in 2:7; is here ( 1:27 ) a statement of what He purposed to do , later ( 2:7 ).
When you read the Hebrew for man in 2:7 it reads 'eth-' Ha'adham ( with article particle = "this same man Adam " ) Through who Christ would come. There would be a man, made in the image of God, and that is realized through Christ ( John 1:14 ).
It's written here now, we have a tiller of the soil in Genesis 2:7 But it was not the case as it says in Genesis 2:5 .
That's the creation best I can understand it at this point. I didn't get into all the details but this covers the basics a little. It offers a good foundation .
Gen 1:1 says the heaven and earth was created in the beginning. ( but dose not when the beaning was )
For that reason, I believe the earth is billions of years old.
In verse 2 reading the surface the English , it appears that it just "was", that way void and without form.
But we can read Isaiah 45:18, God says, He did Not create the world void or without form.
When verse 2 is looked at from the Hebrew it was taken: it reads there was a literal destruction to the surface of the earth, that it ' became ', void and without form, sometime after verse one.
There is a destruction recorded in Jeremiah 4:22-28. Here we can read there was a destruction to the earth, but that there was No man left; not even aboard and ark. And there were no cities.
From Genesis 1 starting at the end of verse two ( And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. ) and to verse 8.
We see waters receding, and dry land appearing.
Peter has some valuabel insight into Genesis . In 2nd Peter chapter 3. Peter says, the world age ( greek ) was destoryed, by water.
2 Peter 3:
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: ( the first. )
The second which we are currently still in, would be what followed, and is the time Noah's flood took place.
So we have two floods recorded in the Bible. And first world wide flood of the first world ( age ) Recorded here, and in Gen 1:2 , and Jeremiah 4 etc). And a second flood, of the second earth ( age ) of Genesis 6.
When we read of each day in Genesis 1 is speaking of a rejuvenating of the surface of the earth, where by, it can be habitable again. Peter also gave farther teachings about Genesis . He says that each day to God is a thousand years to man, and vice versa:
2Peter3:
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
And I certainly don't want to be ignorant of that.
So each day God was rejuvenating the earth, and creating life upon it: took about 6,000 years. ( when we tack on time that has passed since then, I think we get over 10,000 years ago.
So we can say, that man in flesh, has lived on earth for over 6,000 years. But the earth its' self is billions of years in age.
He created man in the sixth day in v 26. In the Hebrew it reads Elohim ( not God ), man without a article = mankind. He has hunters of fish, and animals etc. But there is no mention of a tiller of soil here.
Then in verse 27,God says In his own image, in the Hebrew accent ( Pasek ), places the emphasis on God. ''man'' in verse 27 has a article and a demonstrative Hebrew 'eth, to indicate that "the man Adam" created in 2:7; is here ( 1:27 ) a statement of what He purposed to do , later ( 2:7 ).
When you read the Hebrew for man in 2:7 it reads 'eth-' Ha'adham ( with article particle = "this same man Adam " ) Through who Christ would come. There would be a man, made in the image of God, and that is realized through Christ ( John 1:14 ).
It's written here now, we have a tiller of the soil in Genesis 2:7 But it was not the case as it says in Genesis 2:5 .
That's the creation best I can understand it at this point. I didn't get into all the details but this covers the basics a little. It offers a good foundation .
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K
Then this OP guy failed to start with coming to a Christian sight looking for answers to botched question. He should have thought if I go to a christian based web site all I get is creation by God and few stupid answers from non believers that for some reason post on a christian web site. Doncha you think?
The word "day" in Gen 1 is not defined to be a period of 24 hours. The only reference point, and meaning, of the word "day" is a period of God's creating. The days are thus "God days" or heavenly days. These God days later became represented by human days that man knows. Earth is an image of heaven. Man days are an image of God days.
6 literal man-days? Just forget it. This is a bad belief. Evolution? It's been proven to occur with animals, and very likely it's true. So don't attack it. You're there to learn. 6x24 hours creationists belong in a museum, like numerous other heretical sects that have arisen down the centuries, such as "sun goes round the earth" etc.
6 literal man-days? Just forget it. This is a bad belief. Evolution? It's been proven to occur with animals, and very likely it's true. So don't attack it. You're there to learn. 6x24 hours creationists belong in a museum, like numerous other heretical sects that have arisen down the centuries, such as "sun goes round the earth" etc.
Sure. In my view the biblical account is not literally accurate and the belief of creation taking place in six literal days untenable because it conflicts with almost everything we know about geology, paleontology, archaeology, cosmology, biology, and physics.
I will also note that I too once held your view - that everything was created in six literal days - but after carefully studying the evidence from multiple dating methods (radiometric dating, varve counts, dendrochronology, ice cores) and how all these various methods agreed with each other I was forced to adjust my views.
I will also note that I too once held your view - that everything was created in six literal days - but after carefully studying the evidence from multiple dating methods (radiometric dating, varve counts, dendrochronology, ice cores) and how all these various methods agreed with each other I was forced to adjust my views.
in your o.p. you said,,, "created the world in 6 literal days",,,in gen. 1;1-5 the earth,Heaven and the light were all created on the "first day",(gen.1;5),,,,,so the world,if you mean "earth" was created in only 1 day. Now on the other hand if you mean earth and you are counting the other things he created in the (whole creation),,cows,fish,days,man ect. they were not yet created on the first day(when he created the earth) nor is the work yet complete. that is if a day is as a thousand years today is still Friday the sixth day(2nd peter 3;8).
so how many days was it from the beginning in gen.1;1 to the cross? that is if the lord came into the world to deliver salvation is salvation not a creation of god?,,,and if again he will in that day destroy the heavens and the earth and then another earth and another heaven will then be seen there remains this, that is still in the process of creation.
it is said that the believer in the son of god is crucified and raised a "new creature in Christ",,,but what day of the week counted among the seven did this transpire?,,that is "today",while it is still today,,, the sixth day,,(Hebrews 3;11-16). that is he spoke of the seventh day again that it still remains to come,,(Hebrews 4;4-10),,,
so how many days was it from the beginning in gen.1;1 to the cross? that is if the lord came into the world to deliver salvation is salvation not a creation of god?,,,and if again he will in that day destroy the heavens and the earth and then another earth and another heaven will then be seen there remains this, that is still in the process of creation.
it is said that the believer in the son of god is crucified and raised a "new creature in Christ",,,but what day of the week counted among the seven did this transpire?,,that is "today",while it is still today,,, the sixth day,,(Hebrews 3;11-16). that is he spoke of the seventh day again that it still remains to come,,(Hebrews 4;4-10),,,
C
When Was “the Beginning”?
The Genesis account opens with the simple, powerful statement: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) A number of Bible scholars agree that this statement describes an action separate from the creative days recounted from verse 3 onward. The implication is profound. According to the Bible’s opening words, the universe, including our planet, Earth, was in existence for an indefinite time before the creative days began.
Geologists estimate that the earth is 4 billion years old, and astronomers calculate that the universe may be as much as 15 billion years old. Do these findings—or their potential future refinements—contradict Genesis 1:1? No. The Bible does not specify the actual age of “the heavens and the earth.” Science is not at odds with the Biblical text.
The Genesis account opens with the simple, powerful statement: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) A number of Bible scholars agree that this statement describes an action separate from the creative days recounted from verse 3 onward. The implication is profound. According to the Bible’s opening words, the universe, including our planet, Earth, was in existence for an indefinite time before the creative days began.
Geologists estimate that the earth is 4 billion years old, and astronomers calculate that the universe may be as much as 15 billion years old. Do these findings—or their potential future refinements—contradict Genesis 1:1? No. The Bible does not specify the actual age of “the heavens and the earth.” Science is not at odds with the Biblical text.
I'm not sure if you have read anything Irenaeus,he heard polycarp preach and polycarp was a friend of john the apostle. Irenaeus was the bishop of lyons in France around ad175. in earlier letters it can be proved that polycarp,Ignatious and others new john the apostle personally and taught them,,,and then this is what Irenaeus lerned from polycarp,,,this is from (against heresies,book 5,chapter 29 paragraph 3)
but by the working of magic. And we must not be surprised if, since the demons and apostate spirits are at his service, he through their means performs wonders, by which he leads the inhabitants of the earth astray. John says further: And he shall order an image of the beast to be made, and he shall give breath to the image, so that the image shall speak; and he shall cause those to be slain who will not adore it. He says also: And he will cause a mark [to be put] in the forehead and in the right hand, that no one may be able to buy or sell, unless he who has the mark of the name of the beast or the number of his name; and the number is six hundred and sixty-six, Revelation 13:14, etc. that is, six times a hundred, six times ten, and six units. [He gives this] as a summing up of the whole of that apostasy which has taken place during six thousand years. 3. For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works. Genesis 2:2 This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; 2 Peter 3:8 and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year.
4. And therefore throughout all time, man, having been moulded at the beginning by the hands of God, that is, of the Son and of the Spirit, is made after the image and likeness of God: the chaff, indeed, which is the apostasy, being cast away; but the wheat, that is, those who bring forth fruit to God in faith, being gathered into the barn. And for this cause tribulation is necessary for those who are saved, that having been after a manner broken up, and rendered fine, and sprinkled over by the patience of the Word of God, and set on fire [for purification], they may be fitted for the royal banquet. As a certain man of ours said, when he was condemned to the wild beasts because of his testimony with respect to God: I am the wheat of Christ, and am ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of God.
but by the working of magic. And we must not be surprised if, since the demons and apostate spirits are at his service, he through their means performs wonders, by which he leads the inhabitants of the earth astray. John says further: And he shall order an image of the beast to be made, and he shall give breath to the image, so that the image shall speak; and he shall cause those to be slain who will not adore it. He says also: And he will cause a mark [to be put] in the forehead and in the right hand, that no one may be able to buy or sell, unless he who has the mark of the name of the beast or the number of his name; and the number is six hundred and sixty-six, Revelation 13:14, etc. that is, six times a hundred, six times ten, and six units. [He gives this] as a summing up of the whole of that apostasy which has taken place during six thousand years. 3. For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works. Genesis 2:2 This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; 2 Peter 3:8 and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year.
4. And therefore throughout all time, man, having been moulded at the beginning by the hands of God, that is, of the Son and of the Spirit, is made after the image and likeness of God: the chaff, indeed, which is the apostasy, being cast away; but the wheat, that is, those who bring forth fruit to God in faith, being gathered into the barn. And for this cause tribulation is necessary for those who are saved, that having been after a manner broken up, and rendered fine, and sprinkled over by the patience of the Word of God, and set on fire [for purification], they may be fitted for the royal banquet. As a certain man of ours said, when he was condemned to the wild beasts because of his testimony with respect to God: I am the wheat of Christ, and am ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of God.
in the last sentence of (4) he(Irenaeus) quotes from,,,(a certain man of ours)who was "Ignatious" this is from his epistle to the Romans chapter 4,here is the exert from the letter. i set these here for the purpose of the connection between Irenaeus,Ignatious,polycarp and john. if you find the "spurious epistles" Ignatius wrote letters to both the apostle john and to Mary the mother of Christ,,,,,in any event here is the text Irenaeus quoted from i.e.(wheat of god),,,,
[h=2]Chapter 4. Allow me to fall a prey to the wild beasts[/h] I write to the Churches, and impress on them all, that I shall willingly die for God, unless you hinder me. I beseech of you not to show an unseasonable good-will towards me. Allow me to become food for the wild beasts, through whose instrumentality it will be granted me to attain to God. I am the wheat of God, and let me be ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of Christ. Rather entice the wild beasts, that they may become my tomb, and may leave nothing of my body; so that when I have fallen asleep [in death], I may be no trouble to any one. Then shall I truly be a disciple of Christ, when the world shall not see so much as my body. Entreat Christ for me, that by these instruments I may be found a sacrifice [to God]. I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you. They were apostles; I am but a condemned man: they were free, while I am, even until now, a servant. But when I suffer, I shall be the freed-man of Jesus, and shall rise again emancipated in Him. And now, being a prisoner, I learn not to desire anything worldly or vain.
[h=2]Chapter 4. Allow me to fall a prey to the wild beasts[/h] I write to the Churches, and impress on them all, that I shall willingly die for God, unless you hinder me. I beseech of you not to show an unseasonable good-will towards me. Allow me to become food for the wild beasts, through whose instrumentality it will be granted me to attain to God. I am the wheat of God, and let me be ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of Christ. Rather entice the wild beasts, that they may become my tomb, and may leave nothing of my body; so that when I have fallen asleep [in death], I may be no trouble to any one. Then shall I truly be a disciple of Christ, when the world shall not see so much as my body. Entreat Christ for me, that by these instruments I may be found a sacrifice [to God]. I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you. They were apostles; I am but a condemned man: they were free, while I am, even until now, a servant. But when I suffer, I shall be the freed-man of Jesus, and shall rise again emancipated in Him. And now, being a prisoner, I learn not to desire anything worldly or vain.