Faith and Deeds
- Thread starter Tina2018
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Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Romans 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
Faith is equated to obedience. Faith without obedience is no faith at all.
Romans 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
Faith is equated to obedience. Faith without obedience is no faith at all.
But true faith must be accompanied, justified through works. James uses Abraham as an example. Remember, the one Abraham was justified before was God, not others. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son and God responded to Abraham's obedience.
Genesis 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Genesis 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
E
Abraham was declared saved (righteous) many years before his son was even born.
Gen 22 does not say now I know you have faith, it says now I know you really fear (respect) god. It takes some many years after they are saved to come to that kind or level of faith. Look at all Abraham went through to get there. It did not happen over night. He was not saved by that work, and that work had nothing to do with maintaining his salvation (rom 4)
R
In justification, absolutely.
In daily living? None whatsoever.
The faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is the faith that acts out (Galatians 5:6). If it doesn't act out somewhere, somehow, then you have a 'faith' that can not save you (James 2:14).
Don't automatically get defensive because I'm not 'once saved always saved'. I'm confident that we are in complete agreement here. We only differ as to whether the person with dead faith was ever really born again to begin with. I say he could have been, you say he was never born again. Not a hill worth dying for, IMO. We both agree, either way, that person will not be saved when Jesus comes back. That's the important point in all of this, not whether or not they ever really believed.
In daily living? None whatsoever.
The faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is the faith that acts out (Galatians 5:6). If it doesn't act out somewhere, somehow, then you have a 'faith' that can not save you (James 2:14).
Don't automatically get defensive because I'm not 'once saved always saved'. I'm confident that we are in complete agreement here. We only differ as to whether the person with dead faith was ever really born again to begin with. I say he could have been, you say he was never born again. Not a hill worth dying for, IMO. We both agree, either way, that person will not be saved when Jesus comes back. That's the important point in all of this, not whether or not they ever really believed.
R
Right, it showed that he was continuing to believe.
If you want to think it would have been impossible for him to have stopped believing, fine. But the point is, it was necessary that he continue to believe. If you want to believe that he was incapable of no longer believing that's your right, but it doesn't change the truth that if he had stopped believing God he would no longer be an heir to the promises. ....unless you're hypergrace, of course.
If you want to think it would have been impossible for him to have stopped believing, fine. But the point is, it was necessary that he continue to believe. If you want to believe that he was incapable of no longer believing that's your right, but it doesn't change the truth that if he had stopped believing God he would no longer be an heir to the promises. ....unless you're hypergrace, of course.
Correct! The only thing we are commanded to do for salvation is believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is God's righteousness He has provided for man. And God's righteousness is through the faith of Jesus Christ.
Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
R
I understand what you are saying and I agree but why am I getting the feeling you are putting the cart before the horse?
Somewhere in your 'hearing' you are going to have to recognize that there are two opposing arguments to 'once saved always saved':
1) You can lose your salvation by not doing works.
and
2) You can lose your salvation by going back to unbelief.
See the difference? You have been trained to only hear the first argument. Which, actually, has very little representation in the church today. #1 is easily the most irrelevant argument in the church today. Just simple observation shows that few think that salvation is earned and merited on the basis of work. And let's not bring up the Catholic Church and various Protestant fringe denom's. You might as well include unbelievers opinions in this if you're going to do that. (Not a slam on all individuals in those denom's, just an overall assessment of them.)