Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

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Apr 30, 2016
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If you believe eternal life is not lost then, yes, we are in agreement.


If, however, you believe the born again one loses eternal life, then no, I do not agree with you because I believe God when He says All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out (John 6:37).
God will in no wise cast out anyone who comes to Him.
This is true.
I'm saying that God will not leave us nor forsake us,
God will not cast us out.
I'm saying that it's possible for US to leave God.

Salvation comes through faith.
So if we have faith, we have salvation.

What if we lose faith?
What happens if we return to a life as described in 1 Corinthians 5:9-12 or Galatians 5:19-21 ??

Faith = Salvation
No Faith = No Salvation

It's very comforting to me to know that as long as i decide that I want to be with God, I am saved.
I don't have to wonder if I really am...
 
Mar 23, 2016
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FranC said:
It's very comforting to me to know that as long as i decide that I want to be with God, I am saved.
I don't have to wonder if I really am...
It is also very comforting to know that if / when we do stumble / fall, the Lord Jesus Christ searches for us, finds us, places us on His shoulders, and carries us back to the fold.


I trust my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to search me out until He finds me more than I trust myself to turn back to Him if I stumble / fall.


(And please understand, nowhere have I ever condoned a life of sin, so please do not think that I am in any way, shape, or form saying that it is okay to sin.)
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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It's very comforting to me to know that as long as i decide that I want to be with God, I am saved.
I don't have to wonder if I really am...
With respect you have built your house on the sand!
You are standing on your own merits - and they are utterly utterly worthless.

You cannot be saved on this basis.
Salvation in Christ is based purely on His merits, on the work that He did on the cross, by His blood.

And if you are saved then what you are has been changed irrevocably - you are no longer a goat but a sheep. (Refer back a few posts for the context.)
This is not something that can be altered.
Assurance of salvation is not a pipe-dream but a reality.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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With respect you have built your house on the sand!
You are standing on your own merits - and they are utterly utterly worthless.

You cannot be saved on this basis.
Salvation in Christ is based purely on His merits, on the work that He did on the cross, by His blood.

And if you are saved then what you are has been changed irrevocably - you are no longer a goat but a sheep. (Refer back a few posts for the context.)
This is not something that can be altered.
Assurance of salvation is not a pipe-dream but a reality.

Well said...

It is in "security" that brings true "maturity" - the same for any relationship. Knowing that He is always faithful to us no matter what releases His love in us and we trust in Him and we are transformed in the renewing of our minds so that our thinking will be in line with our new creation where Christ dwells as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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Yeah it just means you were never saved to begin with.
Hebrews 10:26 "If you keep on sinning willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." "No longer" means there once genuinely did- therefore it is possible to lose your salvation since it is dependent upon Christ's sacrifice covering your sins. And therefore OSAS is a false teaching that does not match the Bible.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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With respect you have built your house on the sand!
You are standing on your own merits - and they are utterly utterly worthless.
What does building upon the sand have to do with salvation, she must have done something to obtain the favour of God's grace.

You cannot be saved on this basis.
Can you cite the law that you are referring unto that prohibits God from saving the believer?



Assurance of salvation is not a pipe-dream but a reality.
Agreed, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:4
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Hebrews 10:26 "If you keep on sinning willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." "No longer" means there once genuinely did- therefore it is possible to lose your salvation since it is dependent upon Christ's sacrifice covering your sins. And therefore OSAS is a false teaching that does not match the Bible.
Please provide definitions of sinning wilfully versus sinning non-wilfully and how one can distinguish between them.
Furthermore please provide details of which camp you are in.
Do you really claim to be sinless...
I think you may have a problem...
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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What does building upon the sand have to do with salvation, she must have done something to obtain the favour of God's grace.



Can you cite the law that you are referring unto that prohibits God from saving the believer?





Agreed, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:4
If you don't get the use of a metaphor I can't help you - non-literal use of language is not a sin!

How do you know Fran has the favour of God's grace?
By what yardstick are you measuring this?
BTW this is no attack on Fran rather a question for you to answer.

I see you are in the habit of not quoting parts of a post in order to ask questions for which the answer has already been provided.
Why you phrase your question as asking for a law is beyond me.

I am not sure if your final sentence implies support for the concept of universal salvation or not, but just one person not receiving salvation utterly destroys that doctrinal position.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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What does building upon the sand have to do with salvation
You don't read Jesus very much, do you? You know, the red letters?

If you did, you'd have the answer to this question and would not have asked it.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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With respect you have built your house on the sand!
You are standing on your own merits - and they are utterly utterly worthless.

You cannot be saved on this basis.
Salvation in Christ is based purely on His merits, on the work that He did on the cross, by His blood.




And if you are saved then what you are has been changed irrevocably - you are no longer a goat but a sheep. (Refer back a few posts for the context.)
This is not something that can be altered.
Assurance of salvation is not a pipe-dream but a reality.
"With respect you have built your house on the sand!
You are standing on your own merits - and they are utterly utterly worthless.

You cannot be saved on this basis.
Salvation in Christ is based purely on His merits, on the work that He did on the cross, by His blood."


thats not at all what Jesus said about it, in fact the quote there about "building on sand is a reference to the opposite

matthew 7:24-27 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And EVERYONE that heareth these SAYINGS OF MINE and DOETH THEM NOT, shall be likened unto a FOOLISH MAN, WHICH BUILT HIS HOUSE UPON THE SAND: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and IT FELL: and great was the fall of it."


this is Jesus Christ, saying if you do the things im teaching, you are building upon a rock, and your house will stand. If you do not do these things im telling you, you are building upon the sand, and youre house will fall. wise v foolish. do the word, or explain why Jesus didnt understand the Kingdom.

the "finished work of the cross" doesnt appear in scripture anywhere, and to be hinest isnt taught for us to hav faith in the cross anywhere in scripture, but rather to Have faith in the One who WENT TO THE CROSS for us. we can say on one hand " i believe in Jesus, hes my Lord" and then on the other, we can Hear the truth which is as much the WORK of God as Jesus death and resurrection.

matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven"<<<

john 7:16-17 "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. "

Jesus plainly taught, and then said do these things, they are the word of God. Building on sand would be to ignore Jesus words, and create a new salvation like " rest in the finished work of the cross" which no one on this site created, happened long ago. but God be praised we have the Words of Our Lord and savior Known as the truth, and we need never part from His words, but rather conform our beliefs to His. He taught consistantly "calling me lord is not what im teaching you, but to act as if Im your Lord. He knew all along he would die as a ransom for the world, he taught His disciples as much. His words are the thing we need Know and believe and follow, not a single word of Jesus is the "law of moses" , every word is Lofe and spirit and truth and Light and freedom from sin and therefore its consequences. the events of the cross, is Our passover, our forgiveness, our atonement for our past sins, His doctrine provides the forgiveness for the future.


Matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

so we need to follow His word, theres no other path to the Father, the cross is certainly a boig important part of the gospel, like the resurrection, But His words are the gospel as well. to accept His sacrifice and not His teachings is to reject Him who said this

john 12:48-50 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."


to accept His words along with his sacrifice is salvation, when we accept His words, they create us in new because we have faith in the One who spoke these things, Jesus.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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Jesus plainly taught, and then said do these things, they are the word of God. Building on sand would be to ignore Jesus words, and create a new salvation like " rest in the finished work of the cross"
So, you are saying the Cross (Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection) is meaningless???
 
Jun 1, 2016
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So, you are saying the Cross (Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection) is meaningless???

you might have missed this in my comment

"so we need to follow His word, theres no other path to the Father, the cross is certainly a big important part of the gospel, like the resurrection, But His words are the gospel as well. to accept His sacrifice and not His teachings is to reject Him who said this"


so id have to answer naw not at all.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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To follow jesus:

I read the whole post.
The logic of it is extremely iffy.
As for the trying to relate the post to my position even more difficult.
Perhaps you should summarise your post in a couple of sentences so I can at least know exactly what it is you disapprove of.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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To follow jesus:

I read the whole post.
The logic of it is extremely iffy.
As for the trying to relate the post to my position even more difficult.
Perhaps you should summarise your post in a couple of sentences so I can at least know exactly what it is you disapprove of.
did i say i disapproved? and why is it iffy to you? a few sentances, ok....

so we need to follow His word, theres no other path to the Father, the cross is certainly a boig important part of the gospel, like the resurrection, But His words are the gospel as well. to accept His sacrifice and not His teachings is to reject Him who said this

john 12:48-50 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."


 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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did i say i disapproved? and why is it iffy to you? a few sentances, ok....

so we need to follow His word, theres no other path to the Father, the cross is certainly a boig important part of the gospel, like the resurrection, But His words are the gospel as well. to accept His sacrifice and not His teachings is to reject Him who said this

john 12:48-50 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."


What on earth makes you think I am cherry-picking?
 
Jun 1, 2016
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To follow jesus:

I read the whole post.
The logic of it is extremely iffy.
As for the trying to relate the post to my position even more difficult.
Perhaps you should summarise your post in a couple of sentences so I can at least know exactly what it is you disapprove of.
you said to fran " with respect you are building your house on the sand" Jesus says the sand is built upon, when we refuse to do His teachings"

you related building on sand, to something not found in the bible. it wasnt a condemnation gp, i was simply showing you where the " building on sand reference comes from" that it relates not to the cross, but to doing the word if Jesus. not to disapprove, but to remind you of something you probably know, no offense intended, just offering what Jesus said of things is all.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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What on earth makes you think I am cherry-picking?
Could be that bowl of Captin Crunch berries you be munchin on :cool:
 
Feb 24, 2015
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We are in Christ because of God's doing. We don't go in and out of Christ. It's religious nonsense.
I have a few comments to make about the above comment
1. This is a straw man argument. It is saying this is what people are claiming, and then declaring it
nonsense. But you actually have to show what people are teaching and who teaches it.

2. When people fall away they very much have left Christ behind.

Now to be real in life we do have times of rebellion, of standing separate from God, of feeling betrayed
lost and alone. Being a prodigal is a common experience of many. And the prodigal is very much lost
and not connected to the Father, there is no being found until they return.

Some would have you believe there is no sense of lostness, or being outside and then the joy of
returning to heaven. But listen to Jesus

There will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Luke 15:7

For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.
Luke 15:24

Faith in Christ is everything. All the promises hang on the presence of faith
and nothing else.

There is not greater lie in the heart of man that sin does not matter, it is not their
fault, they could do nothing else, it is the hurts and knocks that justify the evil they
do.

Jesus came to resolve the hurts and knocks, to remove the excuse, to show the
love which we can both know and share. So there is a way out, and a way to
enter eternity.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Hebrews 10:26 "If you keep on sinning willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." "No longer" means there once genuinely did- therefore it is possible to lose your salvation since it is dependent upon Christ's sacrifice covering your sins. And therefore OSAS is a false teaching that does not match the Bible.
Hebrews 10:26 (Amplified Bible) - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate]. Nothing here about losing salvation.

To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, yet there is no heart submission to the truth. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21). Not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).