Falling away from the Faith (it's possible)

[PeterJens]

sounds good but i really dont see this in action ever......... i think what happens is they take it as license to do evil........... that i see.

The people who preach like this have zero care for this, because they believe there is no problem
with people doing evil, because in their eyes they are already forgiven.

What staggers me is though scripture is clear, they are so convinced they know God and it does not
matter, they believe laying an importance of good, doing that which is right, loving and following
Jesus is evil and the work of the enemy.

If they did not swamp the threads with their repeated dogma of we are loved no matter how evil our
behaviour is, and opposing straight obedience to Christ, I would think there is some hope.

But after 2 years of this continual behaviour, they are deaf, dumb and blind, with long quotes with
various distortions and biblical re-explanations why the writers meant compromise is ok, just know
you are loved.

Now it is truly hard for people who read scripture to understand how clear simple words could mean
such deception and odd things, justifying evil-doers as righteous and forgiven, when their lives are
not resolved. Long theological excuses will work for die-hard church goers who feel jaded with
church life.

 

[PeterJens]

We don't need to water down the gospel because some might take it wrong. The Lord will bring them around.

The sad reality is these preachers of what they call grace no longer believe in repentance
from sin, or the baptism for the remission of sins, the turning from evil and walking in righteousness.

They believe no one can turn from evil and walk righteously so therefore sorrow for the evil they
have done is pointless, and belief that God can transform you is miss-placed.

The wonder is this is actually a commenly held humanist position. Men are basically ok, except for
a few failures that will send them to hell forever, they cannot do anything about, so in faith God
forgives them, not dealing with the flesh but giving them a new perfect heart which means they
can live forever when the evil fleshly body is transformed into a new heavenly body.

Now the real problem is the world is no longer their enemy, it is the believers who hold to
righteousness.

So deep is the deception, rather than striving to walk in love and holiness, it is bringing down
believers and either converting them to this easy believism or expelling them as legalists.

What is ironic is this has been going on since the church began. Compromise on sexual immorality
and food sacrificed to idols. And John rightly calls them deceivers and anti-christs.

Why?
Because they teach against Jesus's teaching and do not teach love.

I have now seen the lie that love of Christ is a special love that is uniquely spiritual,
rather than it being the true expression of love we all have as human beings, because
we were created in Gods image. So the divide is becoming plain.
Either you know a living relationship with God, walking righteously with true repentance,
or you are deceived. The apostles were this stark because they knew Christ face to face
and knew the balance He intended. Just open your hearts and read scripture.

A time is coming when people will want to destroy Gods word because it does not agree with
their hearts, and truly you will know the rebellion is complete. So be ready, because you can
read and hear this spirit speaking here and now.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I would like to bring you to look at 2 John 1:8-11

And I just read the whole chapter.


Look at vss 1-2 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.


How long? F-O-R-E-V-E-R.


And look at vss 4-5 rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.


What is the commandment? That God's children love one another.


Vs 7 tells us who the deceivers are For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


The deceivers are not those who speak about the grace of God. Nor those who point to Father God and our Lord Jesus Christ as being sufficiently capable of carrying us through any and all troubles we face in this life.


So when we come to vss 8-11, we see that loving one another causes us to receive a full reward.


Who are we not to receive into our house? Those who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist (vs 7).


Who are we to not receive into our house? Those who do not abide in the doctrine of Christ ... those who do not walk in accordance with the commandment which we had from the beginning, that we love one another (vs 5).

 

[Grace777x70]

Nonsense. To show the deceitfulness in post #862 - I will post again what I and many others have said about repentance. This continued deceitfulness is why I don't interact with some people.

The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind ".

There are "fruits" of repentance (changing the mind )

To us it means to change our mind to stop relying on ourselves and our thinking and turn to God.

Stop living our own life with our own thinking and come to Christ and let His life live through and in you. Receive all that Jesus did for us in His finished work.

Yes, it also means how we view sinning - from living the homosexual lifestyle to having malice, deceit and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

We should be repenting ( changing how we think towards something ) constantly as we see the Lord's true nature, love and grace revealed to and in us.

There will always be "fruits" of having a changed mind ( having repented ) to God but the "fruit" is not the repentance within itself. True repentance is the "root" before the "fruit" comes.

The fruit will manifest itself in the form of having a changed heart because we are a new creation in Christ.

This will also show in behavior as the life of Christ transforms our outward life to reflect what has already happened in our inner man - that new creation in Christ.

Sometimes our religious traditions can "hi-jack" the meanings of words and can present false assumptions.

 

[PeterJens]

because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:
2 John 1:2

The truth, which is Christ, salvation, love, forgiveness, victory over sin and death,
lives in us, amen, because we know Christ and is eternal if we stay true to it.

The truth is eternal but our staying in it is up to us. This one step people find
impossible to cross. The idea they could choose to walk away or dishonour the
Lord.

But John is saying some have rushed ahead and left the faith, become deceivers
and anti-christs. To sit under them is to become likewise workers of wickedness.

So if you truly know the Lord, flee such as these, for the wrath that is due them
will fall on you also.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Grace 777x70]When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells.

sounds good but i really dont see this in action ever......... i think what happens is they take it as license to do evil........... that i see.

The same accusation was thrown at Paul by those who slandered him —


Romans 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.


Some followed Paul around from location to location, telling people taught the truth of the gospel by Paul that Paul was preaching "Let us do evil, that good may come".


Did Paul teach that? No!


Did people follow him around and tell new babes in Christ that Paul was teaching "Let us do evil, that good may come"? Yes!


And for the record, go through the pages of this thread and look to see who it is that says it's okay to live in sin.


No one is saying that. On both sides of the issue all are saying it is not okay to sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well said reneweddaybyfay!

All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.

They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do. Good works are an example of this.

We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested.

The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate" to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being.

In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved.

The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.

All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.

This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.

The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him.

We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ. Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The truth is eternal but our staying in it is up to us.

You dismiss Father as if He does nothing


Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.


You are not capable of keeping yourself from falling.



You dismiss our Lord Jesus Christ as if He does not yoke Himself to you to ease the burdens you face

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


If at any point you find your burden too heavy to bear, it's because you're doing it on your own. And not because Jesus has left you (or me). We just keep taking back the burdens He is offering to share with us.

 

[PeterJens]

You dismiss Father as if He does nothing

Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

You are not capable of keeping yourself from falling.

You dismiss our Lord Jesus Christ as if He does not yoke Himself to you to ease the burdens you face

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

If at any point you find your burden too heavy to bear, it's because you're doing it on your own. And not because Jesus has left you (or me). We just keep taking back the burdens He is offering to share with us.

"You dismiss Father as if He does nothing "

This is rather judgmental and untrue. I emphasis that we do have a choice. We can sow to
the flesh or to the spirit. We can put off the old self and put on the new or follow the old
self and its passions. Clearly some do.

But I find, like yourself people think this is a simple one off dismissive attack.
Our walks are walks, where the order of events is less important than they actually taking
place. Testimony after testimony is rather than a single event, our walk is encounters with
God and revelation coming into our lives. We then have a choice which tests our hearts.

God is calling us, guiding us, being our Father and our friend. But this is a very dangerous
place and no simple answers or resolutions. Take Jesus in conflict about going to the cross,
knowing its pain and tumult, but also the need. One of His best friends, in love reaches out
and tries to encourage Him by saying this problem will not happen. So Peter though close,
spoke the words of the enemy without knowing it.

So our emotions, our loves, our hatred, our longings and our desires must be laid at His throne.
Nothing is too little for Him, we are bought, every last part of us, before the King of Kings.

Now at each point we can resist the King. Jonah did, and almost died, yet God worked through
it all. So here I am sharing, and God will use this and yourselves to bring glory to His name.

And I praise and worship Him, because He is the Lord, and His ways we only see at the surface.
So I know people do fall, how far, I do not know, but I am called to be careful, and to stay faithful.

So I say amen to the King.

 

[PeterJens]

Nonsense. To show the deceitfulness in post #862

Let me get this straight, from the beginning.

Jesus preached the repentance of John.

Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
John 4:1-2

Johns repentance was repent of your sins, admit your sins are evil, commit not repeat
this evil behaviour and as a sign of this new commitment be baptised in water.

This repentance was the same preached by Jonah to Nineveh, to which the people responded
in grief, sack cloth and ashes.

This is the same repentance James talks about

Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:8-10

Now this repentance is what people preach against, but are preaching against
the very word of God. God has not changed from Ezek 18:21

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.
Ezek 18:21

In the foolishness of some peoples hearts they dismiss this as old testament, while
it is the same repentance that continues to this day, that has brought revival to
the UK through many revivals and all across the USA.

Truly they speak in rebellion against the Lord, the nature of sin and getting right
with God and so the judgement on them, while claiming to see are blind, claiming
to hear are condemning, claiming to be able to speak yet blaspheme.

So will there judgment be. The more people become aware of Gods word the plain
their heresy and rebellion shows itself to be. They are driven souls by their past and
their legalism and the terrible pain they suffered torturing themselves over goals they
were incapable of fulfilling because they did not know Christ. But to them they say
Christ was distorted and presented in an evil way, so now their mission is to free the
world of this distortion and send the church to the hell it deserves.

They appear as pleasing angels of light, while carrying with them rebellion and unresolved
sin, which undoes every good word they speak with the poison of rebellion and sin.

 

[Stephen63]

Amen brother!
Partakers of the Holy Spirit - Partakers describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an enterprise or undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Business partner, companion. Participating in. Accomplice in. Comrade. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems at first glance to be support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the indwelling of believers.

Really? What type of partaking of the Holy Spirit do we have before salvation?!? Do unbelievers worship in the Spirit now?

Sounds like you're making things up as you go along.

It is very plausible to envision an individual becoming a sharer in or partaker of the Spirit (and his pre-salvation ministry - convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come) by responding for a time to His drawing power intended to lead sinners to Christ. The translation "shared" implies something done in company with others and before salvation all believers shared in the convicting ministry of the Spirit Who drew them to salvation. *Notice that the writer does not state that these individuals were "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or "possessors of the Spirit's pledge (guarantee) of future inheritance."

The word "partaker" is used throughout Hebrews as of salvation, God's grace, & the Holy Spirit, not somebody that simply "feels conviction".

This is nothing but a evil trick to fool others & lead them away from the truth, which is what you often do.

Tasted the good word of God - They had tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of its character and quality, yet they still turned away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept the thing that is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Believers do not simply "taste" into one Spirit but drink into one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Again, misleading statements.
Here's how the word is really used:
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◄ 1089. γεύομαι (geuomai) ►​

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Englishman's Concordance
Strong's Greek: 1089. γεύομαι (geuomai) — 15 OccurrencesMatthew 16:28 V-ASM-3P
GRK: οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως
NAS: here who will not taste death until
KJV: shall not taste of death, till
INT: no not shall taste of death until
Matthew 27:34 V-APM-NMS
GRK: μεμιγμένον καὶ γευσάμενος οὐκ ἠθέλησεν
NAS: with gall; and after tasting [it], He was unwilling
KJV: and when he had tasted [thereof], he would
INT: mingled and having tasted not he would
Mark 9:1 V-ASM-3P
GRK: οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως
NAS: here who will not taste death until
KJV: shall not taste of death, till
INT: no not shall taste of death until
Luke 9:27 V-ASM-3P
GRK: οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως
NAS: here who will not taste death until
KJV: shall not taste of death, till
INT: no not shall taste of death until
Luke 14:24 V-FIM-3S
GRK: τῶν κεκλημένων γεύσεταί μου τοῦ
NAS: who were invited shall taste of my dinner.'
KJV: were bidden shall taste of my
INT: who have been invited will taste of me the
John 2:9 V-AIM-3S
GRK: ὡς δὲ ἐγεύσατο ὁ ἀρχιτρίκλινος
NAS: the headwaiter tasted the water
KJV: the ruler of the feast had tasted the water
INT: when moreover had tasted the master of the feast
John 8:52 V-ASM-3S
GRK: οὐ μὴ γεύσηται θανάτου εἰς
NAS: he will never taste of death.'
KJV: he shall never taste of death.
INT: never not shall he taste of death to
Acts 10:10 V-ANM
GRK: καὶ ἤθελεν γεύσασθαι παρασκευαζόντων δὲ
NAS: and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations,
KJV: and would have eaten: but while they
INT: and wished to eat [as] were preparing however
Acts 20:11 V-APM-NMS
GRK: ἄρτον καὶ γευσάμενος ἐφ' ἱκανόν
NAS: the bread and eaten, he talked
KJV: bread, and eaten, and talked
INT: bread and having eaten for for long
Acts 23:14 V-ANM
GRK: ἑαυτοὺς μηδενὸς γεύσασθαι ἕως οὗ
NAS: a solemn oath to taste nothing until
KJV: under a great curse, that we will eat nothing
INT: ourselves nothing to taste until that
Colossians 2:21 V-ASM-2S
GRK: ἅψῃ μηδὲ γεύσῃ μηδὲ θίγῃς
NAS: Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!
KJV: (Touch not; taste not; handle
INT: You might handle not You might taste not You might touch
Hebrews 2:9 V-ASM-3S
GRK: ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου
NAS: of God He might taste death
KJV: of God should taste death
INT: for every one he might taste death
Hebrews 6:4 V-APM-AMP
GRK: ἅπαξ φωτισθέντας γευσαμένους τε τῆς
NAS: been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly
KJV: and have tasted of the heavenly
INT: once having been enlightened having tasted moreover of the
Hebrews 6:5 V-APM-AMP
GRK: καὶ καλὸν γευσαμένους θεοῦ ῥῆμα
NAS: and have tasted the good word
KJV: And have tasted the good word
INT: and [the] goodness having tasted of God's word
1 Peter 2:3 V-AIM-2P
GRK: εἰ ἐγεύσασθε ὅτι χρηστὸς
NAS: if you have tasted the kindness
KJV: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord
INT: if indeed you did taste that [is] good

Fall away - I find it interesting that the term "fall away" or "stumble" was used by the Lord Jesus of His 11 disciples at the time of His arrest. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times. They were said to "fall away." Matthew 26:31 - Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP OF THE FLOCK SHALL BE SCATTERED.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee." 33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." Obviously, this was not a loss of salvation. For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16)

Fall away -

3895. parapiptó
​

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
fall away.From para and pipto; to fall aside, i.e. (figuratively) to apostatize -- fall away.
see GREEK para
see GREEK pipto

The word you are using for these examples is

4624. skandalizó
​

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
to cause to stumble
From skandalon; to entrap, i.e. Trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure) -- (make to) offend.

Again, You're caught trying to deceive the people with two Greek words that are nothing alike.

Hebrews 6:7,8 - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this agricultural metaphor, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. When we recall the other metaphors in Scripture where good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and fruitfulness is a sign of false believers (for example - Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35), we already have an indication that the author is speaking of people whose most trustworthy evidence of their spiritual condition (the fruit they bear) is negative, suggesting that the author is talking about people who are not genuine Christians. Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. *Thorns and briars and permanent falling away do not accompany salvation.

Since all the previous context is talking about christians, so is the whole text.

All you've done here is pure deception, twisting Greek words to make them say what you want.

EISEGESIS..... pure garbage.

Which proves you did this on purpose, not accidentally.

The readers can check it out themselves & discover the fraud you are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EISEGESIS..... pure garbage.

This is why trying to talk to someone like this is nonsensical. All he does is go around attacking people.

He thinks he has thoroughly refuted MMD, when all he has done is give his opinion, throw a few greek interpretations out there which MAY SUPPORT him, and at best, shows he may be right.

But instead of agreeing to disagree, He attacked.

This is nonsene, recommend we all ignore this nonsense.

 

[PeterJens]

I like Dan, seriously a sincere brother in Christ.

When scripture teaches people can fall away, I too find it hard. How can I be in heaven
rejoicing knowing people who I have loved have been destroyed.

What has happened in me though is though I know empathy and love for another, when they
turn against God, and the rebellion and sin causes them to rise up against all that is pure and
holy, I see someone different.

In truth we all can say words, get convictions and then be seduced by evil. Lucifer was and
he saw it all, before the living God. Gods heart is to give us love and choice, and we have to
own this choice. And I mean own it, take responsibility for its consequences.

We teach children how to cross a road. We look after them until they are capable of choosing
when and where they cross. It is what growing up gives you.

So if you believe this is the glory Christ is giving us, so is the glory of our response, and the
responsibility of failure. So I say amen. Come Lord Jesus come, anoint your people with the power
to show your glory and love in this world, so an end can be drawn and the final rebellion resolved.
Amen.

 

[Stephen63]

And I just read the whole chapter.


Look at vss 1-2 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.


How long? F-O-R-E-V-E-R.

Having the truth in you doesn't mean you're living it. Lots of sinners have the truth of the gospel in them. They can reject it & harden their hearts against it, but it's still there.

 

[PeterJens]

This is nonsene, recommend we all ignore this nonsense.

Lol. And how many have hidden

A common response is if I respond I will get banned.
I used to be taken in with this, because they are not really angry because
anger is sinful, and they are good loving boys and girls.

It is just a humerous joke spoken among mature adults who know how to
rib one another

 

[Stephen63]

The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind ".

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3341: μετάνοια

μετάνοια, μετανοίας, ἡ (μετανοέω), a change of mind: as it appears in one who repents of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done, Hebrews 12:17 on which see εὑρίσκω, 3 ((Thucydides 3, 36, 3); Polybius 4, 66, 7; Plutarch, Peric c. 10; mor., p. 26 a.; τῆςἀδελφοκτονιαςμετάνοια, Josephus, Antiquities 13, 11, 3); especially the change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life, so that it embraces both a recognition of sin and sorrow for it and hearty amendment, the tokens and effects of which are good deeds (Lactantius, 6, 24, 6 would have it rendered in Latin byresipiscentia) (A. V.repentance): Matthew 3:8, 11; Luke 3:8, (16 Lachmann); Luke 15:7; Luke 24:47; Acts 26:20; βάπτισμαμετανοίας, a baptism binding its subjects to repentance (Winer's Grammar, § 30, 2 β.), Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 13:24; Acts 19:4; (ἡεἰς (τόν) Θεόνμετάνοια, Acts 20:21, see μετανοέω, at the end); διδόναιτίνιμετάνοιαν, to give one the ability to repent, or to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25; τιναεἰςμετάνοιανκαλεῖν, Luke 5:32, and Rec. in Matthew 9:13; Mark 2:17; ἄγειν, Romans 2:4 (Josephus, Antiquities 4, 6, 10 at the end); ἀνακαινίζειν, Hebrews 6:6; χωρῆσαιεἰςμετάνοιαν, to come to the point of repenting, or be brought to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9 (but see χωρέω, 1 at the end); μετάνοιαἀπόνεκρῶνἔργων, that change of mind by which we turn from, desist from, etc. Hebrews 6:1 (Buttmann, 322 (277)); used merely of the improved spiritual state resulting from deep sorrow for sin, 2 Corinthians 7:9f (Sir. 44:16: Wis. 11:24 (23); ; Or. Man. f ((cf. the Sept. edition Tdf. Prolog., p. 112f)); Philo, qued det. pot. insid. § 26 at the beginning; Antoninus 8, 10; (Cebes, tab. 10 at the end).)

Isn't it something how they leave out the most important parts of the definition?

Surely, this is deception.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Deception is when someone says something, Like repent means to change the mind.

Then someone follows their post. by showing the defenition, which says it means to change ones mind,

Then calls the original person deceptive.

Like I said.. It is not worth it..

 

[PeterJens]

Fear

When John is saying, you have come to Christ, stay in Christs teaching of love and His
commands or you can loose it all.

If you teach against His commands you have become a deceiver and an anti-Christ, a
worker of evil.

Now surely, in all sincerity, people might pause and think, am I putting my relationship
with God on the line?

Now if people rush on without a moment of thought they have seared their conscience,
and are lost in a whole series of ideas of their own making.

All of us have failures and frailties, and none of us are certain without prayer, thought,
study and application of the Holy Spirit to our hearts. This is how we know when we
stand we stand well.

It is a sign dogma as overwhelmed people when their immediate response is an excuse,
and dismissal. This is another reason why I love my Lord, he waits for us to understand
and work it through. That is His grace and mercy to His people.

I have seen it working here over the years, as people come to His word and change. And
I pray for this, that we might grow into the maturity of the faith. Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

Deception is when someone says something, Like repent means to change the mind.
Then someone follows their post. by showing the defenition, which says it means to change ones mind,
Then calls the original person deceptive.
Like I said.. It is not worth it..

This is an odd post, because if there is nothing to disagree with, why is there thread
upon thread definning repentance what it is and is not.
For one it is just a change of mind, another it is true grief and sorrow for evil done.

If you cannot see a difference here I wonder about your ability to read and comprehend
what is being contended, but then this is nothing I have not observed in the past.

 

[notuptome]

This is why trying to talk to someone like this is nonsensical. All he does is go around attacking people.

He thinks he has thoroughly refuted MMD, when all he has done is give his opinion, throw a few greek interpretations out there which MAY SUPPORT him, and at best, shows he may be right.

But instead of agreeing to disagree, He attacked.

This is nonsene, recommend we all ignore this nonsense.

Now you went and caused me to think about what Jude wrote. Super severe stuff when we examine ourselves against the word of God.

Just another one of those times when I hope I'm way off the mark. I am not saying that any here have reached this level but it is a possible outcome if we give ourselves to fleshly passions and distain Godly discipline.

I must insert something positive so here is a verse to consider.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

For the cause of Christ
Roger