False path

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aspen

aspen

Banned
#1
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
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0
#1
One of the fallacies found within human nature is the idea that returning to the begining or the Garden is going to bring us to the most pure form of truth possible. I think America was built on this ideal. The first settlers were looking for religious purity, by trying to reclaim the practices of the early church in the footsteps of the Reformation. The founding Fathers also looked into antiquity for a model of government - Greece, for purity. The Fundamentalist movement of the late 19th century was trying to do what the Puritans failed to do. Even the Catholic Church teaches that the source of Apostolic truth diminishes over time.

Frankly, I think this is a real problem because it restricts growth; Christianity is supposed to be a living and growing religion. When people try to recapture the past, they end up re-enacting an inaccurate version - an idealized version of the past, which appears wooden and legalistic. Even if it were possible to recapture the past in an accurate manner, it would no longer be relevant. Unfortunately, instead of embracing change, we as Christians end up loving the ideals of the past and chasing rainbows, rather than focusing on loving people today.
 
M

Mal316

Guest
#2
#2
Forget that which is behind (Garden of Eden) strain forward to what lies ahead, press on towards the goal. See Phil 3:13-14

We are not to try to revert to what is behind but constantly strain (or strive) for what is ahead.
 
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Mal316

Guest
#4
#4
The Garden of Eden would still be before anybody became Christian.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#5
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#5
aspen said:
One of the fallacies found within human nature is the idea that returning to the begining or the Garden is going to bring us to the most pure form of truth possible. I think America was built on this ideal. The first settlers were looking for religious purity, by trying to reclaim the practices of the early church in the footsteps of the Reformation. The founding Fathers also looked into antiquity for a model of government - Greece, for purity. The Fundamentalist movement of the late 19th century was trying to do what the Puritans failed to do. Even the Catholic Church teaches that the source of Apostolic truth diminishes over time.

Frankly, I think this is a real problem because it restricts growth; Christianity is supposed to be a living and growing religion. When people try to recapture the past, they end up re-enacting an inaccurate version - an idealized version of the past, which appears wooden and legalistic. Even if it were possible to recapture the past in an accurate manner, it would no longer be relevant. Unfortunately, instead of embracing change, we as Christians end up loving the ideals of the past and chasing rainbows, rather than focusing on loving people today.
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I think there is probably a lot of pride (social climbing) in churches.
 
M

Matalica

Guest
#6
#6
Could be one of the reasons why people are still desperately trying to find the Ark of the Covenant, wanting to tie modern Christianity to something more concrete.
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#7
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
0
#7
Matalica said:
Could be one of the reasons why people are still desperately trying to find the Ark of the Covenant, wanting to tie modern Christianity to something more concrete.
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Wow - I never thought of that....

I think you are so right! I think looking into the past is a way to nail down truth or make it more concrete.

We have the illusion that we understand the past so it is less scary than the future - I think you are probably right about the Ark, as well.
 
K

karuna

Guest
#8
#8
Matalica said:
Could be one of the reasons why people are still desperately trying to find the Ark of the Covenant, wanting to tie modern Christianity to something more concrete.
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Not to be too flippant, but I'm pretty sure people just want to know if it'll really melt Nazis.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#10
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
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#10
aspen said:
One of the fallacies found within human nature is the idea that returning to the begining or the Garden is going to bring us to the most pure form of truth possible. I think America was built on this ideal. The first settlers were looking for religious purity, by trying to reclaim the practices of the early church in the footsteps of the Reformation. The founding Fathers also looked into antiquity for a model of government - Greece, for purity. The Fundamentalist movement of the late 19th century was trying to do what the Puritans failed to do. Even the Catholic Church teaches that the source of Apostolic truth diminishes over time.

Frankly, I think this is a real problem because it restricts growth; Christianity is supposed to be a living and growing religion. When people try to recapture the past, they end up re-enacting an inaccurate version - an idealized version of the past, which appears wooden and legalistic. Even if it were possible to recapture the past in an accurate manner, it would no longer be relevant. Unfortunately, instead of embracing change, we as Christians end up loving the ideals of the past and chasing rainbows, rather than focusing on loving people today.
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Interesting, don't you think we can learn from the past? considering a lot of problems keep re appearing? we cannot live in the past I agree. but we certainly can learn from the past.

(Metallica)The Ark, is it import to anyone today?? the only importance of the Ark is a historical one and maybe the value of the Gold.

There are some ideals from the past that are good... some not so good.

Kind regards

Phil
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#11
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
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#11
phil36 said:
Interesting, don't you think we can learn from the past? considering a lot of problems keep re appearing? we cannot live in the past I agree. but we certainly can learn from the past.

(Metallica)The Ark, is it import to anyone today?? the only importance of the Ark is a historical one and maybe the value of the Gold.

There are some ideals from the past that are good... some not so good.

Kind regards

Phil
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Of course the past teaches a great deal, but the people were not more wise then people in the present. During Modernism, CS Lewis pointed out the opposite problem - Chronological Snobbery as he called it was discounting everything int he past - believing that our civilization was at the pinnacle of all civilizations.
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#12
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
0
#12
aspen said:
Of course the past teaches a great deal,

but the people were not more wise then people in the present
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.




During Modernism, CS Lewis pointed out the opposite problem - Chronological Snobbery as he called it was discounting everything int he past - believing that our civilization was at the pinnacle of all civilizations.
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but the people were not more wise then people in the present
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then How come people could understand The King James Bible 400 years ago , and now it has become too hard for us today???????????
 
C

cloudshape

Guest
#13
#13
The challenge seems to be how to hold to principles but also move forward as the world changes. Without growth comes stagnation. 2000 years ago, women pretty much had to be married and were chattel to their husbands. Is that relevant to today's society? No. The challenge lies on relevance without sacrificing principles.
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#14
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
0
#14
Thaddaeus said:
then How come people could understand The King James Bible 400 years ago , and now it has become too hard for us today???????????
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Ummm..... the nature of language? How does the fact that language changes over time have anything to do with intelligence?
 
aspen

aspen

Banned
#15
Feb 3, 2010
1,238
3
0
#15
cloudshape said:
The challenge seems to be how to hold to principles but also move forward as the world changes. Without growth comes stagnation. 2000 years ago, women pretty much had to be married and were chattel to their husbands. Is that relevant to today's society? No. The challenge lies on relevance without sacrificing principles.
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Absolutely......
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#16
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#16
aspen said:
One of the fallacies found within human nature is the idea that returning to the begining or the Garden is going to bring us to the most pure form of truth possible. I think America was built on this ideal. The first settlers were looking for religious purity, by trying to reclaim the practices of the early church in the footsteps of the Reformation. The founding Fathers also looked into antiquity for a model of government - Greece, for purity. The Fundamentalist movement of the late 19th century was trying to do what the Puritans failed to do. Even the Catholic Church teaches that the source of Apostolic truth diminishes over time.

Frankly, I think this is a real problem because it restricts growth; Christianity is supposed to be a living and growing religion. When people try to recapture the past, they end up re-enacting an inaccurate version - an idealized version of the past, which appears wooden and legalistic. Even if it were possible to recapture the past in an accurate manner, it would no longer be relevant. Unfortunately, instead of embracing change, we as Christians end up loving the ideals of the past and chasing rainbows, rather than focusing on loving people today.[/quote
If you are refuring to living in the past, or just believing the past I agree. There is scripture that speaks to this.
But if you are one that loves to garden like I do, there is alot to be learned in the simple act of planting and caring for a garden. Mostly because I know that all that I do in my garden has no effect when it comes to Gods gift in growth. Also to be so basic in seeing the mirical of growth and Gods creation is a joy.
Im sure that those that love music , or art, or healing have the same amazement in Gods great works as well.
It just the appreation of all of God creation.
Smiles and God bless, pickles
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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#17
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
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#17
Thaddaeus said:
then How come people could understand The King James Bible 400 years ago , and now it has become too hard for us today???????????
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It's not very often I agree with aspen, but I agree with his post in regard to the KJV above.

People, in our time speak a different language, no one but no one speaks Ole English, not even the English! I was really suprised you used an argument like that Thaddaeus.

Just incase I get a backlash..I am Not Against The KJV.
 
Browncoat

Browncoat

Banned
#18
Feb 19, 2010
467
2
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#18
phil36 said:
It's not very often I agree with aspen, but I agree with his post in regard to the KJV above.

People, in our time speak a different language, no one but no one speaks Ole English, not even the English! I was really suprised you used an argument like that Thaddaeus.

Just incase I get a backlash..I am Not Against The KJV.
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Neither am I, but I still thank G-d for giving me modern versions I can understand!
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#19
#19
I pretend to speak Ye Olde English at ren faires...but then my cell phone rings and I recall how silly I'm being.
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#20
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
0
#20
cloudshape said:
The challenge seems to be how to hold to principles but also move forward as the world changes. Without growth comes stagnation. 2000 years ago, women pretty much had to be married and were chattel to their husbands. Is that relevant to today's society? No. The challenge lies on relevance without sacrificing principles.
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but is change always Good, NO!!!!!!! I believe Principles have been sacrificed.

1co 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Eph 5:21Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.Eph 5:22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.Eph 5:23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.Eph 5:24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.Eph 5:25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
 
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