FEW make it to Heaven! MOST go to Hell! :(

[psalm6819]

God wants to be merciful that is why He sacrificed His Son- for us. To think that the precious blood of Jesus shed on OUR behalf does not wash away our sins seems to me to dishonor His sacrifice. When my children do something wrong I don't hate them or disown them. I correct them with love. God is love incarnate, Jesus died so we could be forgiven. God is faithful that means He will not give up on His own children. The Bible says God will not despise a broken and contrite heart. We have all sinned, God already knows and Jesus has already paid for every sin committed by every person, willful or not. I don't think each time I sin I lose my salvation. How could I ever trust God if I did? I know that I will sin not because I want to but because I'm human. God knows our heart-He loves us and is faithful.

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, I think you are correct in this in general and it has been my experience that once you boil all the fat off the arguments, most do not believe that; however I do know several people, many of them close to me, who actually believe exactly that and are quite dogmatic about it.

I don't doubt that at all bro...I dealt with a man who had preached 50 years you could live any way you want if you know Jesus.....I got up behind the pulpit and told them that who ever taught this was a liar, because it does matter how we live as God will judge EVERY work that is done under the sun by man...the difference between a TRUE believer and a lost man is that the CONDEMNATION OF THE LAW NO LONGER APPLIES UNTO A BELIEVER AS GOD SEES THE BLOOD AND PASSES OVER!

 

[kennethcadwell]

It is based fact and not upon opinion as I have friends in twenty plus states and over 12 countries that pastor 100 plus churches and that teach OSAS not to mention the men who I went to seminary with who teach OSAS and they as well do not teach what you wrongly accuse most churches who teach osas of....and again I say...quit using this crutch to try and justify your own gospel of works for salvation.

I am not wrongly accusing anybody. I am saying not all OSAS churches teach what you say. I visited a few of them, even some in the Kansas city area all the way down to the Ozarks in Missouri ( where I live ). And they said no matter how you live your life from here out you will still be saved.

I talked to the preachers, and asked them if a man continues in homosexuality or a man takes and murders some one every month for the rest of their physical lives. And do this as if there is nothing wrong with it, and never repent are they still saved ?

I was astounding when they told me, yes. They said because they accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior that was all required, and now they could live that way because those sins were automatically covered.

That is not biblical, but false teaching. Future sins are not covered unless you come to repent and ask forgiveness of them when they happen.

 

[JamesMcClay]

Osas in ANY form will put you on the broad way. It causes the heart to find a false place of comfort.

Salvation is a work of grace that little by little sets us free from ALL sin. When we fully OBEY and trust The Lord then He counts us as completely BLAMELESS in His sight. Trusting in doctrines or experiences causes our faith to eventually be shipwrecked.

FEW. Yes, VERY FEW.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am not wrongly accusing anybody. I am saying not all OSAS churches teach what you say. I visited a few of them, even some in the Kansas city area all the way down to the Ozarks in Missouri ( where I live ). And they said no matter how you live your life from here out you will still be saved.

I talked to the preachers, and asked them if a man continues in homosexuality or a man takes and murders some one every month for the rest of their physical lives. And do this as if there is nothing wrong with it, and never repent are they still saved ?

I was astounding when they told me, yes. They said because they accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior that was all required, and now they could live that way because those sins were automatically covered.

That is not biblical, but false teaching. Future sins are not covered unless you come to repent and ask forgiveness of them when they happen.

Again a true child of God cannot and will not live a continual lifestyle of sin....so...they were not saved to begin with....

 

[dcontroversal]

Osas in ANY form will put you on the broad way. It causes the heart to find a false place of comfort.

Salvation is a work of grace that little by little sets us free from ALL sin. When we fully OBEY and trust The Lord then He counts us as completely BLAMELESS in His sight. Trusting in doctrines or experiences causes our faith to eventually be shipwrecked.

FEW. Yes, VERY FEW.

That's hilarious seeing how the following is true.....

Broad way leads to hell/lake of fire<----most religions teach works for salvation plus Jesus
Straight and narrow way leads to eternal life<----minority teaches OSAS

What a farce......HAH!

 

[kennethcadwell]

God wants to be merciful that is why He sacrificed His Son- for us. To think that the precious blood of Jesus shed on OUR behalf does not wash away our sins seems to me to dishonor His sacrifice. When my children do something wrong I don't hate them or disown them. I correct them with love. God is love incarnate, Jesus died so we could be forgiven. God is faithful that means He will not give up on His own children. The Bible says God will not despise a broken and contrite heart. We have all sinned, God already knows and Jesus has already paid for every sin committed by every person, willful or not. I don't think each time I sin I lose my salvation. How could I ever trust God if I did? I know that I will sin not because I want to but because I'm human. God knows our heart-He loves us and is faithful.

You are right God will not hate us or disown us, as we would not hate or disown our own children.

But think of it this way, do kids get frustrated with their parents correction and rules they put over them. And then in some cases get so mad at them they walk away to never speak or see their parents again. Yes that does happen, so when you apply it to our Lord, then it is not He who disowns us. It becomes those who chose to deny Him, and walk away that set their own destiny.

 

[Kerry]

Paul admitted to sin. Peter rejected the gentiles until Paul got in his face. Thomas had to put his hand in the wounds. Peter said I'm going fishing. John stood outside the courtroom. and so on. Moses was not allowed into the promised land. David committed adultery and murder but was a man after God's own heart. In fact he said I pant for you as a deer pants for water.

The bible is a book of failure and then one true that did not. We will all fail and then realize that it is the cross that sets us free. Every Christian must go through Romans 6 and 7 before you get to Romans 8.

 

[JamesMcClay]

That's hilarious seeing how the following is true.....

Broad way leads to hell/lake of fire<----most religions teach works for salvation plus Jesus
Straight and narrow way leads to eternal life<----minority teaches OSAS

What a farce......HAH!

When you believe OSAS then YOU NO LONGER TRUST JESUS ALONE --- your faith is in your doctrines --- and you are lost.

 

[Stephen63]

Hey you guys, please check out this video. May the Holy Spirit reveal to you a measure of weight deserved for this truth... in Jesus' name, amen. The Few - Piper/Washer/Ravenhill/Conway/Leiter - YouTube

I watched it....... & to me it doesn't make a bit of difference whether they're Arminian, Calvinist, or a sinner....... The words of Jesus is true & no man with any excuse will get around it.

Matthew 7:13-14 (KJV) [SUP]13 [/SUP]Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: [SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 13:24 (KJV) [SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Please note that this was the way it was in Jesus' day. How much less the "few" will be in our generation.

 

[Stephen63]

Matthew 21:28-32 (KJV) [SUP]28 [/SUP]But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. [SUP]29 [/SUP]He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. [SUP]32 [/SUP]For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

There seems to be two groups: one says that very few will make it while the other says "where sin abounds, grace doth much more abound", implying that anyone that calls on Jesus will be saved.

This scripture makes it plain who will....... that all kinds of sinners that truly believe & repent will make it in before the modern-day pharisees will..... Their first confession before their backsliding won't save them.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Yes, Jesus is the administrator of life and death. It is true that not all shall sleep but, this is talking about those who are alive at the resurrection at the end of time. Paul explained this. The reason we are still dying physically is not because we do not believe but because "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that comes judgment" Hebrews 9:27. I think you are confusing physical death with spiritual death.

Have you not been buried with Christ? Upon realizing this we should be born again as it is not my life, but Christ who lives in me.

Physical death holds no power over me because I know where I come from, and know where I go. Spiritual death is man made. If we were dead spiritually, how then can we be alive at all?

Again death was conquered at the cross. What we are experiencing now is the second death, or the death of death and hell. Everything that is not of God will be consumed during our generation.

 

[Flamingspirit]

No, I believe what Jesus said and the words of God......Only one man in heaven that wasn't born in sin and who never did Sin and his name is Jesus....so your point is moot concerning the scriptural truths that have been given.....!

Matthew 9:10-13

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

[SUP]13[/SUP]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


Matthew 20:25-28


[SUP]25 [/SUP]But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Now let us use common sense when answering this question. Is this the many of the FEW THAT FINDS LIFE, or the MANY who could not, knowing Jesus as stated above, not to be like the gentiles???

 

[jb]

FEW make it to Heaven!

"...I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying,"Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God...Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me,"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

And these are just the overcoming saints who came out of the Great Tribulation!

 

[Flamingspirit]

"...I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying,"Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God...Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me,"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

And these are just the overcoming saints who came out of the Great Tribulation!

Sounds like more than a few to me.

 

[oldhermit]

Have you not been buried with Christ? Upon realizing this we should be born again as it is not my life, but Christ who lives in me.

Physical death holds no power over me because I know where I come from, and know where I go. Spiritual death is man made. If we were dead spiritually, how then can we be alive at all?

Again death was conquered at the cross. What we are experiencing now is the second death, or the death of death and hell. Everything that is not of God will be consumed during our generation.

Well, I can assure you of one thing to be an absolute certainty. Unless the Lord returns before your time, you WILL die. I do not care how much faith you have.

 

[Skinski7]

Yes Christians do still sin, and if it is in the case of error in judgment or stumble then you can stay in that saved state by repenting and asking forgiveness of that sin, and Jesus our Lord being just will forgive you of that sin.
All sin must be repented of, no matter how it is committed. Jesus said repent or perish.

Those who live in willful sin are those who believe they do not need to repent or ask forgiveness of that sin. They justify, and make the sin acceptable. But the scriptures say all sin is against God.

If you live in it as if you are doing nothing wrong, that is willful sin.

In a nutshell you have stated that one can choose evil and get away with it so long as one does not deny it is evil. You speak of a "saved state" as an abstraction because you are upholding the idea that one can "choose evil" and be "saved" at the same time. Salvation is not an abstraction but a literal manifest state of having been set free from sin. If one is set free they no longer serve the master they were set free from. Engaging in sin is serving sin.

There is no such thing as "stumbling" into sin. Sin is a moral choice not an accidental calamity. If you have the mindset that Christian's continue to sin and include in that definition of sin "stumbling" then you must logically be in denial that manifest heart purity has anything to do with actual salvation.

A pure heart does not produce iniquity. A born again believer with a pure heart does not "stumble" into iniquity because the service of sin is a choice and virtue is the opposite of vice. One cannot serve two masters.

A believer who chooses to sin has abandoned God. They have corrupted themselves and the only solution is the first works of repentance whereby the iniquity within can be purged once and for all. The sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent cycle many believe in is a dangerous paradigm to hold.

 

[RedTent]

Again a true child of God cannot and will not live a continual lifestyle of sin....so...they were not saved to begin with....

Then I'm in deep trouble. I found sin I hadn't even realized I had, I found myself with thoughts that weren't of God, and when I repented I found those same thoughts coming back to me the next day. My desire is to put my hand in the hand of the Lord so only the Lord fills me, but oops, I slip up again.

Perhaps it is willful sin that separates us from God so He does not know us.

(Luke 13:24-28) Strive to enter in at the narrow gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the Master of the house is risen up, and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know not where you come from: Then shall you begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in your presence, and you have taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know not where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Then I'm in deep trouble. I found sin I hadn't even realized I had, I found myself with thoughts that weren't of God, and when I repented I found those same thoughts coming back to me the next day. My desire is to put my hand in the hand of the Lord so only the Lord fills me, but oops, I slip up again.

Perhaps it is willful sin that separates us from God so He does not know us.

(Luke 13:24-28) Strive to enter in at the narrow gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the Master of the house is risen up, and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know not where you come from: Then shall you begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in your presence, and you have taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know not where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

What separates us from God is our lack of love for one another. Now matter how sinful you see a person, just love him, like your life depended on it, no matter what! And the God we see will show His face!

 

[royalscot]

Yes, OSAS would be true if it is taught in the right context. But most churches I have come across that teach this philosophy told their congregation they could go and live their life no matter how good or evil. And that they can live in willful sin and still be saved.

This is not what scripture teaches. If they would teach that when accept Jesus Christ and you repent and ask for forgiveness of your sins. That you turn away from walking in darkness ( willful sin ) and walk in light ( producing good works from love ) and stay walking that path then yes once you were put in your saved state you will keep your saved state.

Scriptures make it evident though some will be deceived, fall away, and turn away to follow false doctrines. Now the question that is always posed to believers is; How does one get deceived to turn away to a false doctrine, or fall away if they were not part of something to begin with ???

strange you can read the bible, but give no regard to who jesus was talking to, ie john and jesus were sent to a jewish nation.
when were they sent to a gentile nation.
when was Cornelius told to repent(act 10) , so when did the new covenant start for any gentile. only shows you cant follow the history time line, when were you saved by law, paul said we our selfs are not gentile sinners, but are jews.

again when did law of moses save a gentile . even paul draws a line between the two, jews, and gentiles. so what law was a gentile to repent of.

gal 1
[SUP]13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it.1
gal 2 [/SUP][SUP]5 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
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