For my KJB supporting brethren

[South_FLA]

Hi "South Fla" hope this finds you dry......lol.....

I did not get into the first vid you posted too far before I had a problem with what he was saying..... Before I go on, Let me say:

Thank you for the video(s) and I will continue watching them. The author is going in the right direction and I would hope/Pray that he convinces many who are trying to decide which Bible to get.... The KJV, is hard to be beaten, especially when backed up with the Texus Receptus, Latin Vulgate, Septuagint, Hebrew manuscripts, Aramaic writings, etc. including transliteration at our very finger tips , the computer. This is the knowledge that Jesus Spoke of. An increased Knowledge of the Bible.

Daniel 12:4.." But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."


The KJV is as close to the originals as it can be with all the transliteration from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, etc. to English. In addition, there are several places where the verses and chapters end or begin where they should not be. This is caused by the fact that Verses and Chapters were not part of the originals and were introduced in the late 1400-early 1500's. Now this does not prevent a diligent student of the Bible from getting the correct interpretation(s) of these verses and chapters but it does account for the 1% error present in the KJV that was printed in the 1600's. After that I believe the Bible was copied exactly word for word simply because it was not handwritten so many times.(a gift from GOD)..The Gutenburg printing press stopped a lot of errors in this respect.

The Septuagint LXX is as close as one can get to the original Hebrew manuscripts. Even then the transliterations that had to take place takes its toll. Yes, God is in control and Yes, God's inspired Word (ALL OF IT) will be perfect in HIS eyes. If it is not, I believe He will not let it happen or He will let it happen to people who are a little wanting for the scriptures from the Bible and do not care where they get it from.

We have today many different versions of the Bible. Most of those are being "Politically Correct" or trying to make it easier to read..... Also some versions are genetically corrected where instead of Man it is person and so-on....

My question to those who accept or believe those other versions is this.......In fifty years from the rewriting of those versions of today(2017), will the people then (future) recognize that the words of 2017 introduced to the Bible need to be put back to the originals before they change them to fit that future time period. In other words, if they don't then they are not correcting a course change but rather exasperating it. They will add NEW meaning(s) based upon their time period opinions which are based upon 2017 opinion. You can see where I am going here.

Satan knows what he is doing..... To steer a ship off course is hard not to be noticed unless one only changes its course 1-2 degrees. By the time the error is recognized the Ship is hopelessly far off course.

Thank you again.

You're welcome man! Please feel free to ask or tell the pastor in the videos any problems you have and he should answer them. I'd love to learn more through that conversation!

 

[trofimus]

The KJV is as close to the originals as it can be with all the transliteration from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, etc. to English.

The Septuagint LXX is as close as one can get to the original Hebrew manuscripts. Even then the transliterations that had to take place takes its toll.

Who told you that?

If you do not know that, the KJV is very different from the LXX on so many places. So which one is the true Bible? KJV or LXX?

 

[South_FLA]

If this verse based your profound life belief about the KJV, I must disappoint you. It means that God will preserve His people. You must read the context.

5 "Because of the misery of the poor, and because of the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the Lord, I will set them in safety; I will speak to them thereof openly.
6 The oracles of the Lord are pure oracles; as silver tried in the fire, proved a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou, O Lord, shalt keep us, and shalt preserve us, from this generation, and for ever."

Good point you may be right! But what about these verses?

Psalm 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Isaiah 59:21
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Psalm 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

In these verses God shows that his words are pure and they will be preserved.

 

[trofimus]

Good point you may be right! But what about these verses?

Psalm 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Isaiah 59:21
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Psalm 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

In these verses God shows that his words are pure and they will be preserved.

There is a difference between:
1. words of God (information, messages, commands given by God)
2. Scriptures (written letters, songs, books etc by inspired people or by their company)
3. Bible (an edition of selected Scriptures, translated and compiled from various sources) - made by people

Your verses are not about point # 3.

 

[South_FLA]

There is a difference between:
1. words of God (information, messages, commands given by God)
2. Scriptures (written letters, songs, books etc by inspired people or by their company)
3. Bible (an edition of selected Scriptures, translated and compiled from various sources) - made by people

Your verses are not about point # 3.

Sorry I actually meant "Proverbs 30:5" not psalm.. Anyway, if God says his word/judgments/commands/information will stand forever and are pure, there has to be a bible that has that perfect word recorded.

 

[trofimus]

if God says his word/judgments/commands/information will stand forever and are pure, there has to be a bible that has that perfect word recorded.

Why? Such a necessity does not follow logically.

Why should all generations know perfectly what God said to some people thousands years ago?

If God said to Noah something slightly different than what is recorded in your KJV, what will happen to you?

 

[South_FLA]

Why? Such a necessity does not follow logically.

Why should all generations know perfectly what God said to some people thousands years ago?

If God said to Noah something slightly different than what is recorded in your KJV, what will happen to you?

What I said was very logical actually. God said in his word that he would preserve it and that every word will stay pure. In Matthew 4:4 God said that we shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of his mouth. Why should I follow or believe what God says if he does not leave a perfect word behind? How would I know if what he's saying is true? The slightest addition or subtraction from a verse can change the entire meaning. This is why God said in Revelation 22:18-19 that it is a sin to add or remove words, it is so serious to him that he'll even take your name out of the book of life if you do it. So clearly there can't be multiple English bibles because they all say different things.

 

[trofimus]

What I said was very logical actually. God said in his word that he would preserve it and that every word will stay pure. In Matthew 4:4 God said that we shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of his mouth. Why should I follow or believe what God says if he does not leave a perfect word behind? How would I know if what he's saying is true? The slightest addition or subtraction from a verse can change the entire meaning. This is why God said in Revelation 22:18-19 that it is a sin to add or remove words, it is so serious to him that he'll even take your name out of the book of life if you do it. So clearly there can't be multiple English bibles because they all say different things.

God said that His word is true, that His word will stand for ever etc.

But it is not a Bible edition. It is His word.

If you will give me a promise and your word is true and will stand for ever, you will fulfill that promise. Thats what 'your word is true and will stand etc' means.

It does not mean that the record of your promise must be in a perfect shape accessible for some English generations living thousands years later.

 

[South_FLA]

God said that His word is true, that His word will stand for ever etc.

But it is not a Bible edition. It is His word.

If you will give me a promise and your word is true and will stand for ever, you will fulfill that promise. Thats what 'your word is true and will stand etc' means.

It does not mean that the record of your promise must be in a perfect shape accessible for some English generations living thousands years later.

That's your opinion lol

 

[trofimus]

That's your opinion lol

Its actually a difference between word of God and Bible.

Its a difference between your promise and a record of that promise.

Also, where was His word perfectly preserved as a Bible before the KJV?

 

[South_FLA]

Its actually a difference between word of God and Bible.

Its a difference between your promise and a record of that promise.

If that's how you want to interpret it, I can't stop you. Believe what you want.

 

[South_FLA]

Click on the playlist I shared on the OP, scroll through it, there's a video that answers that question. Its titled something like "Where was the word of God before 1611". If you're not satisfied with his answer, feel free to leave a comment on his video and he should have a discussion with you.

 

[trofimus]

If that's how you want to interpret it, I can't stop you. Believe what you want.

Thanks. That proves that your belief is an opinion only, too.

Where were words of God in a perfect and pure form present before the KJV? KJV is only 300 years old and God is giving his words for at least 5000 years... so?

 

[trofimus]

Click on the playlist I shared on the OP, scroll through it, there's a video that answers that question. Its titled something like "Where was the word of God before 1611". If you're not satisfied with his answer, feel free to leave a comment on his video and he should have a discussion with you.

I do not discuss on youtube.

 

[South_FLA]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You see? ALL scripture. So no, there's not a difference between the word of God and the King James Bible. Its God's perfect record in the English language. If you don't want to believe that and not comment on the man's videos than okay, that's what you believe.

 

[tanakh]

I find the whole debate a pointless waste of time, unless you are a Shareholder in a Bible Publishing Company what is to be gained from sticking to any particular Bible Translation. I thought our mission was to spread the gospel not promote Bible translations. King James is long past caring which Bible you read and so should we be.

 

[trofimus]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You see? ALL scripture. So no, there's not a difference between the word of God and the King James Bible. Its God's perfect record in the English language. If you don't want to believe that and not comment on the man's videos than okay, that's what you believe.

So according to you, Scriptures = Bible?

In that case "ALL Bibles are given by inspiration of God"?

In that case NIV, ESV, KJV, NASB, BLB are all inspired.

No, there is a difference between word of God, Scriptures, Bible.

 

[trofimus]

I find the whole debate a pointless waste of time, unless you are a Shareholder in a Bible Publishing Company what is to be gained from sticking to any particular Bible Translation. I thought our mission was to spread the gospel not promote Bible translations. King James is long past caring which Bible you read and so should we be.

Or unless you are taking it as a pause from studying to school

 

[South_FLA]

I stated in the OP that this thread was not supposed to be a debate and that if anyone had a rebuttal they were supposed to take it up with the man in the videos as he is willing to speak with anyone. But my brothers didn't listen, and instead want to debate with me. That's why this thread has multiple pages. It wasn't supposed to be this way.

 

[trofimus]

I stated in the OP that this thread was not supposed to be a debate and that if anyone had a rebuttal they were supposed to take it up with the man in the videos as he is willing to speak with anyone. But my brothers didn't listen, and instead want to debate with me. That's why this thread has multiple pages. It wasn't supposed to be this way.

This is a Bible discussion forum. Not a youtube video propagation forum.

You cannot expect you post videos and nobody will discuss what you have posted.

Also, because you probably watched those videos, you should be able to answer our objections without any problem.