For Those Who Deny Eternal Security
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K
No it did not and an easy study into early church history would show this, that deacon was used solely for ordained minister.
The adding of servant to it was done in the 3rd century, and the changing of the definition and usage from the 5th century on was from false teachers trying to hide the fact of woman who were ordained ministers in the first 2 centuries of the church.
They continued this corruption of the word by even changing peoples names, such as they did Junia to Junias, to make a female leader in the church to be a male.
You only prove others wrong in your own mind and understanding !!!
The adding of servant to it was done in the 3rd century, and the changing of the definition and usage from the 5th century on was from false teachers trying to hide the fact of woman who were ordained ministers in the first 2 centuries of the church.
They continued this corruption of the word by even changing peoples names, such as they did Junia to Junias, to make a female leader in the church to be a male.
You only prove others wrong in your own mind and understanding !!!
K
The tongues that came down upon the Apostles at Pentecost from the Holy Spirit changed there normal language they spoke to the languages of those from other nations that were there, so that the gospel message could be given to them in their language to be understood.
In other words for example if you only spoke English but were in an area that only spoke Spanish, then the Holy Spirit gave you the ability to speak Spanish to give them the word of God. That is what happened at Pentecost !!!
Dude...while you were a Catholic I was studying Greek....I just went a looked the word up in all 5 books that I use for the languages and there are numerous verses in context all through the N.T. that translates the word as servant...there are numerous variations of the word that are applied unto servitude and the ONLY reason that it has been attributed to what you are saying is because it is included with the word for BISHOPS in the Epistles of Timothy and Titus......
My main Greek book is....
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
Edited by Kittel, Friedrich and Bromiley
And they give the argument of why it is misapplied as you are doing and quite successfully refute it I might add......The Greek is a DEAD language....the words CANNOT be changed and if there is a change it is due to ignorance and or someone trying to fit their own theology!
My main Greek book is....
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
Edited by Kittel, Friedrich and Bromiley
And they give the argument of why it is misapplied as you are doing and quite successfully refute it I might add......The Greek is a DEAD language....the words CANNOT be changed and if there is a change it is due to ignorance and or someone trying to fit their own theology!
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Argue with the word as I am tired of you and your pal rejecting the truth to spew your own opinions.....
Acts 2:7-8[SUP]7 [/SUP]And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Acts 2:7-8[SUP]7 [/SUP]And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
W
I wonder, have you ever read this source on your favorite topic?
Do Christians Sin?
The author goes into great detail and sufficiently covers just about everything that has been discussed.
I appreciate his closing remarks on the matter:
"I suppose that I feel no pressing need to endlessly defend either viewpoint--neither positional sanctification nor sinless perfection. What is the motivation here, and to the value of continuously pursuing this particular doctrine above others. In other words, why would one decide to spend countless hours on this one issue, and is it really worth his time? i.e., How does it bear fruit and glorify God? Or, is this just the first of many such doctrines?"-Owen Weber 2010
I thought about this, and I figure you already have your own motivation for defending your view:
I just simply don't agree with you. I don't think that having the belief that we can sin in the flesh, while still being holy in spirit is disrespectful to God. Nor do I believe that this line of thinking this puts my gift of salvation in jeopardy. I do not agree with the one who says they can commit any sin they wish, for as long as they like, and be still be saved -- it seems you have lumped many of us into this category of "license to sin" and this, quite frankly, is a twisted misunderstanding of our view(s).
God is a mystery to everyone and I am skeptical of anyone who calls their brother's perspective false, while promoting their own rigid (and very complex) perspective.
Jason, you continue to accuse others of doing that which I observe you doing; taking words out of context, twisting words to have new (unintended) meanings, assuming that which has not been stated, and making personal (insulting) remarks.
You seek to enlighten others as to your belief(s) concerning "Sinless Perfection"; a belief that is not universally understood or accepted, a belief that creates division by way of false or conflicting doctrine. But, there are multiple possible interpretations which cannot logically coexist by our human understanding. So, why then do you feel compelled to tell others that we are wrong in our understanding(s) of scripture, our God, and our salvation? Why not approach this topic with the goal of gaining a better understanding for yourself, as well. For have you gained all knowledge of our mysterious God and have nothing left that can be gained?
[h=1]Ephesians 4New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ[/h]4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the callingyou have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”[b]
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of Godand become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Do Christians Sin?
The author goes into great detail and sufficiently covers just about everything that has been discussed.
I appreciate his closing remarks on the matter:
"I suppose that I feel no pressing need to endlessly defend either viewpoint--neither positional sanctification nor sinless perfection. What is the motivation here, and to the value of continuously pursuing this particular doctrine above others. In other words, why would one decide to spend countless hours on this one issue, and is it really worth his time? i.e., How does it bear fruit and glorify God? Or, is this just the first of many such doctrines?"-Owen Weber 2010
I thought about this, and I figure you already have your own motivation for defending your view:
I just simply don't agree with you. I don't think that having the belief that we can sin in the flesh, while still being holy in spirit is disrespectful to God. Nor do I believe that this line of thinking this puts my gift of salvation in jeopardy. I do not agree with the one who says they can commit any sin they wish, for as long as they like, and be still be saved -- it seems you have lumped many of us into this category of "license to sin" and this, quite frankly, is a twisted misunderstanding of our view(s).
God is a mystery to everyone and I am skeptical of anyone who calls their brother's perspective false, while promoting their own rigid (and very complex) perspective.
Jason, you continue to accuse others of doing that which I observe you doing; taking words out of context, twisting words to have new (unintended) meanings, assuming that which has not been stated, and making personal (insulting) remarks.
You seek to enlighten others as to your belief(s) concerning "Sinless Perfection"; a belief that is not universally understood or accepted, a belief that creates division by way of false or conflicting doctrine. But, there are multiple possible interpretations which cannot logically coexist by our human understanding. So, why then do you feel compelled to tell others that we are wrong in our understanding(s) of scripture, our God, and our salvation? Why not approach this topic with the goal of gaining a better understanding for yourself, as well. For have you gained all knowledge of our mysterious God and have nothing left that can be gained?
[h=1]Ephesians 4New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ[/h]4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the callingyou have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”[b]
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of Godand become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Eternal Security believes that what God sent Christ to do . . . . WAS DONE. Eternal Security is resting in the work of Christ. Eternal Security is believing the promises of God. Eternal Security is knowing that just because we partake of the divine nature through the gift of salvation that does not make us PERFECT in the flesh. Because we are imperfect in the flesh . . . and we will remain in this imperfect flesh until we are redeemed and receive our new bodies . . . that flesh - in which there is no good thing . . . will AT TIMES show itself!!!! That old man nature will rear it's ugly head and we will do what comes naturally - SIN. In our heart of hearts we endeavor to WALK by the Spirit and not by the flesh but we just don't do that 24/7. Does that mean that we CONTINUALLY live in sin? NO - God forbid! We DON'T believe that God removes His Spirit from us EACH time we fall down - in fact, we don't believe that God removes his Spirit from us AT ANY TIME! We are NEVER removed from the family - the household of God - NEVER "amputated" from the body of Christ and NEVER have our sonship taken away.
Yep . . . keep reading . . . The Son of man shall send forth his angels and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. THEN SHALL THE RIGHTEOUS SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN IN THE KINGDOM OF THIER FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. And I refer you to: Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE: for there is no difference. Also: Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. . . . v19 For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus Christ) shall many be made righteous . . . We have received the Spirit of adoption whereby we cry, Abba, Father. God is our Father and one day, when we are redeemed and given new bodies we will dwell with Him in the eternal Kingdom wherein dwelleth righteousness. . . .
If you broke that law . . . We are no longer under the law wherein disrespect could and would be punishable by death. . . The body of Christ, the church is also told to honor our parents . . . and yes, we are to show respect and honor toward our heavenly Father. Even God knows we are but flesh . . . He knows the flesh is weak . . .else he wouldn't remind us to renew our minds, to cast down thoughts that are contrary to his word, to not be conformed to this world, to put off the old and put on the new - that is our works . . . that is what helps us to walk by the Spirit. Our salvation though is a free gift through faith in Jesus Christ - PERIOD.
The New Testament brought in the new birth - it was NOT available in the Old Testament. I do not promote sin - that is ONLY YOUR (and a few others) UNDERSTANDING of it - NOT MINE. Proverbs 28:13 - He that covereth his sins shall not prosper - My sins are WASHED away by the blood of Christ - NOT JUST COVERED . . but who confesseth and forsaketh shall have mercy. . . . as for the woman caught in the act of adultery - "sin no more" - What was shown? GRACE . . Now, did the woman go and sin no more? YOU DON'T KNOW THAT . . . Concerning 1 John 1:7,9 . .Because one sins occasionally is not "continual sin" - a believer returns to walking in the light - usually within the next moment that he/she realizes that they have fallen. The believer's HEART, innermost being, keeps the commandments - love God and love others - a believer does not set out to sin . . . sometimes it just happens and is immediately recognized for what it is - says they are sorry and are immediately cleansed from all unrighteousness. Our salvation is NEVER lost in that one moment where we sinned.
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W
"Uh", "Yeah", "Thanks but no thanks" -- Stop being so condescending, please.
Abso-****ing-lutely amazed, at your behavior man. You are rude to others, and whine when we return the rudeness. You call us blind, ignorant, fools when we don't subscribe to your point of view, yet you refuse to even consider another point of view.
Abso-****ing-lutely amazed, at your behavior man. You are rude to others, and whine when we return the rudeness. You call us blind, ignorant, fools when we don't subscribe to your point of view, yet you refuse to even consider another point of view.
The reason he won't consider any other view is his claim that he is led by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit would never lead him into error. He is basically claiming he has a monopoly on the truth, and anyone who disagrees with him is disagreeing with the Holy Spirit.
At that point, I asked him what was the point of any of us reading the Bible when he could tell us what it means instead. (Because we aren't "led" by the Spirit, as he is).
In essence, he is also saying anyone who disagrees with him isn't saved, because only saved people have the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit doesn't lead saved people into error.
So, in fact, either we are lost - or he is.
When someone tempts me to believe in a doctrine that leads to sin and unrighteousness, I can use words that express my hatred for the sin or wrong doctrine they are tempting me with. For even Paul called the Galatians foolish. Granted, I nowhere used any words like that, though (And I would have to have a really good reason by the Spirit for doing so). But Paul says we are to not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather ..... reprove them.
Also, you will take note that I did not get into any name calling personally or try to make it personal with them. You will also take note that I did not set out to attack just them, too. Most OSAS proponents I run into focus on attacking the individual many times and even have called others some really hurtful names and falsely accused them, too.
Also, you will take note that I did not get into any name calling personally or try to make it personal with them. You will also take note that I did not set out to attack just them, too. Most OSAS proponents I run into focus on attacking the individual many times and even have called others some really hurtful names and falsely accused them, too.
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