Another Plagiarized Paste?
This long speil looks like a paste from
DOES GOD KNOW EVERYTHING?
& possibly elsewhere?
Is this plagiarized?
Could this be a troll post?
Atwood posted:
Originally Posted by Atwood
Strange Incense Dan.
How did "soul" get into this? Why do you import the word "soul"?
Where is any assignment of souls to flesh bodies in scripture?
Originally Posted by Atwood
Your Jeremiah verse is interesting. I can see someone arguing from it that this knowledge was a personal relationship, if a personal relationship is possible with someone who does not yet exist. It also doesn't say anything about Esau nor about a person God hates. You seem to be postulating that if God set someone apart for favorable treatment based on foreknowledge, then it is reasonable to suppose (tho it be supposition) that he would hate someone based on foreknowledge. I think that is a worthy hypothesis; I actually never thought of that, and thank you for the suggestion. Yet as I have read Rom 9, I don't see there anything based on foreknowledge, but upon God's sovereign power as a potter over clay.
Originally Posted by Atwood
It is observed that you give not Bible proof for those claims!
Originally Posted by Atwood
Now Dan, having come up with an interesting hypothesis on Esau, you seem to contradict it with your last preposterous comment. If God is omniscient, then he must know our choices. And He is omniscient. Do I need quote scripture for such a basic truth? And it is also seems inconsistent with the possibility of prophecy.
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7)
This passage does not speak of "soul" as a pre-existent or separate component of man. "Man became a living soul" -- the entire man is a living soul (you could say a living person). Text doesn't say man was given a soul or had a soul. Man IS a living soul (person). A shipmaster may count 50 bodies on his ship & report: "50 souls on board." Text doesn't say that God breathed a soul into a body.
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love"
(Ephesians 1:4) So, before the world was, he chose us.
He chose us, but we didn't yet exist. It doesn't say we existed before the world.
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you"
(Jeremiah 1:5). How can God know someone before he/she is born? Because we existed in another dimension before we are born.
Text doesn't say that nor mention any dimension. All men come from Adam & Eve, a race.
"And no man hath ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the son of man which is in Heaven"
(John 3:13). This is why I believe that we pre-existed as spirits with God before we entered our earthly bodies.
When the Lord Jesus was on earth, since He was always immutable 2nd person of the Trinity, He was still omnipresent in the universe & still in Heaven as to His deity.
"The spirit returns to God who gave it"
(Ecclesiastes 12:7). This is a clear and unambiguous statement. The spirit came from God and the spirit returns to God.
"and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it. Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher; all is vanity." But all is not vanity and there was no pre-existence of the spirit (BTW it doesn't say "soul.") I see Ecclesiastes as God's record of man reasoning under the sun. All is not vanity for the man who trusts the Lord Jesus as His Savior. I don't proof text from Ecclesiastes. Adam's sin is imputed to the race, and it is outrageous that God would create a new pure spirit for every man and then pollute it with a supposedly sinful body.
Let me ask you, did God know that Abraham would sacrifice Isaac? Was the test an exercise in futility? "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart
" (Genesis 6:6). Why? Didn't God know in His omniscience what man would do?
Of course God is omniscient. You have no text that says God is not omniscient.
Several times in Scripture God Himself said of certain events that they 'did not come into his mind' (Jeremiah 19:5; 32:35; 44:21). God did not know beforehand that men would become so wicked, it repented Him that He had made man and grieved Him at His heart (Gen. 6:5-7), God did not know whether it would take one or two or three signs to make Israel believe Him (Ex.4:1-12); or whether testing Israel would cause them to obey Him or not (Deut. 8:2, 16). God did not know that Israel would backslide as far as it did (Deut. 32:19-29; Isa. 59:15-19).
None of your verses say that God did not know all things, nor that there was some thing that He did not know. "Know" can mean to have a personal relationship with; it is not always objective knowledge. None of your verses say that "God did not know." I challenge to quote one verse where it says that "God did not know."
The 1,522 "if's" and the many hundreds of conditional requirements of God throughout Scripture are sufficient proof that God does not cause all acts and events by His own decrees, and are sufficient proof that He changes His mind and His own dealings with men as they conform or refuse to conform to His will.
I have not argued that God causes all events by His own decrees.
God goes Himself, or He sends messengers throughout the whole of His vast creations to find out for Him what He wants to know, the same as the head of any other organization would be likely to do, so that plans may be made and actions can be taken accordingly. Examples of such agency constantly reporting to God can be found in all these passages (Gen. 18:21-22; Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; 12:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Matt. 18:10-11; Heb. 1:14; 2:2; Rev. 1:1; 7:1-3; 8:2-13; 9:1; 14:6-20; 15:1-8; 16:1-21; 18:21; 22:6, 8-9, 16).
None of those verses teach that God has to learn things from messengers. His messengers (taking messages from Him) can be expected to report to Him.
Such facts and many others make it clear that God does not know from all eternity what any one man will do, much less what different types and dispositions of men will do under various circumstances that are not yet present to deal with.
None of your verses teach that. I can't believe we are doing to be doing Theology 101 here with a heretic who denies the omniscience of God.
You go on from this point, making bold assertions without scriptural proof. Predestination is clearly a doctrine in the Bible (Romans 8 for example).
(1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9; John 3:16; Rev. 22:17).
Those passages do not prove your bold claims.
Isaiah 46:9I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done.
Psalm 147:4-5 “He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name. Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit
Psalm 139:4Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.
1 John 3:19-20 [19] This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.
Proverbs 5:21 For a man's ways are in full view of the LORD, and he examines all his paths
Psalms 139:2-3 You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways.
Psalms 139:4 Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD.
Psalms 139:1-2 O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar.
1 Chronicles 28:9 And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
Ephesians 1:9-12 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment -- to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
Love Hoffco
